Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[Psalm3704]

Are you kidding me???? Psalm said that the multitude in heaven is proof that those who were resurrected at Jesus death were transformed and are now in heaven. Which is absolutely ludicrous because there's nothing linking those two events.

Wrong!!!!!

I did NOT say that or anything close. And I challenge you to quote me on that. I dare you to prove it.

That's just your own ignorance at work. Assume this, assume that! Assume the "Last Day" in John 6:44 falls on the day of the Great White Throne Judgement of Revelation 20:11-15 too.









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[Major1]

A statement like this MUST be supported by clear scriptural proof.
You are discussing these things with people here that know their Bibles very well and we know such a thing as a rapture removal to heaven for living Christians is simply not what God has planned for His people.
It would be better for you to not promote such teachings, believe it if you must, but remember James 3:1 admonition.
However, this discussion has the benefit of [hopefully?] making others, who may have only been taught an end time rapture, to consider alternatives.
And the alternative to going to heaven, is going to live in all of the holy Land. Where we Christians, redeemed by the Lord will live in peace and prosperity, blessed by Him, as we fulfil our destiny of being His witnesses and a people who display His Light to the nations.
I have scripture in bucketsful to prove this truth.

Here's an exercise for you: read Psalms 107:1-43 Who is that Psalm talking about? Where do they go? What do they do? [v22 & v32] Who will observe and understand these things? v43.

The fact is......it has been presented to YOU several times. Presentation is not the problem for you. It is understanding and acceptance.

THE only reason I respond to your claims is so that those others you speak of will know the truth of God's Word and not some off the wall theology.

The truth is that you can not produce one single Scripture to back the Preterist claim. NOT ONE!!!!

Now you can post a Scripture which YOU want it to say what you want to believe but that is not Bible exegesis at all. That is personal false teaching propagated by a personal agenda.

Post A "bucketful" of Scripture and we can discuss them.

 

[Major1]

OH, BOY! Now I know why Christ said could anything good come out of Israel?

See, it is always the same. When you are corned by truth and God's Word, you always go for the personal comments. ALWAYS!

 

[Major1]

When Jesus will come down from Heaven that will be to Establish His Kingdom on the Earth....Jesus will not make a U-turn and come back to Heaven with some selected people.

Correct!

You have just agreed with what I have been saying!!

I agree, Jesus will come again from heaven at Armageddon.
I agree, It is at that point in time that He will establish His 1000 year rule on the earth.

He will not make a U-Turn and come back to heaven with anyone. He has in fact already taken His Bride, the church to heaven 7 years previous to Armageddon. He will rule from David's throne in Jerusalem.

The home of the church will be then as it was before Armageddon and that is in heaven as the Bride of Christ.

Luke 12:36.....
"and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately."

Rev. 19:7-8 then tells us about that wedding......
"Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints."

According to Jewish custom, the marriage contract, which often includes a dowry, is drawn up first. The contract parallels the act of faith we use when we trust Jesus to be our Savior. The dowry is His life, which was used to purchase us. When it's time for the wedding, the groom goes to the bride's house unannounced.

She comes out to meet him, and then he takes her to his father's house. This precisely correlates with the events according to the pre-trib scenario. Jesus, the Groom, comes down from heaven and calls up the Church, His Bride. After meeting in the air, He and His Bride return to His Father's house, heaven. The marriage supper itself will take place there, while down here on earth the final events of the tribulation will be playing out.

After the marriage supper of Jewish tradition, the bride and groom are presented to the world as man and wife. This corresponds to the time when Jesus returns to earth accompanied by an army "clothed in fine linen, white and clean"

 

[precepts]

See, it is always the same. When you are corned by truth and God's Word, you always go for the personal comments. ALWAYS!

It's always the same that you people are just thorns in the flesh, loving controversies and petty arguments instead of the truth.

The only thing you people pick up on is other people's business.

Stop attacking the messenger and address the message.

 

[Straightshot]

You are arguing with a stump Major

One who has created his own fog to hide in

 

[Major1]

It's always the same that you people are just thorns in the flesh, loving controversies and petty arguments instead of the truth.

The only thing you people pick up on is other people's business.

Stop acting the messenger and address the message.

You have taken us so far from the message, I do not remember what it is.

Oh, yea....where is the Rapture in Revelation?

To rightly understand the Second coming of Christ, one must realize the difference between the Rapture and the Revelation.

Rapture means to be caught up, or away.

Revelation (apokalupsis) means "unfolding or revealing".

The Rapture occurs when the Church is caught up to meet Christ in the air as told to us in 1 Thess. 4:14, 17 which is before before the tribulation.

The Revelation occurs when Christ comes, with His saints, to end the Tribulation, by the execution of righteous judgment upon the earth and that is seen in 2 Thess. 1:7-10 & Jude 14.

At the Rapture, Christ comes in the air for His saints and He does not touch the earth and that is told to us in John 14:3.

At the Revelation, He comes to the earth with THEM/Saints in 1 Thess. 3:13 & Zech. 14:5).
THINK for just a moment. He certainly must come for His Saints before He can come with them. The assurance that God will bring them with Jesus in 1 Thess. 4:14 is Bible evidence that He will first come for them, they being caught up to meet him in the air in verse 17.

The Greek word there ..... "to meet" signifies a going forth, in order to return with. The same word is used in Acts 28:15, where the brethren came out to meet Paul and had a season of thanksgiving with him at Appii Forum and the Three Taverns, when he was on his way to Rome. This exactly accords with our being caught up to meet Christ and afterward returning to the earth with Him.

Again, at the Rapture Christ comes as the Bridegroom as seen in Matt. 25:10 to take unto Himself His bride, the Church which is recorded in Eph. 5:25-32.

At the Revelation, He comes, with His bride, the church to rule the nations of the earth in Rev. 2:26-27; 5:10; 19:15.

At the Rapture He comes only to meet the saints in the air, according to 1 Thess. 4:17.

At the Revelation, He comes to the earth as pictured in Acts 1:11, and His feet stand upon the same Mount Olivet from which He ascended as told to us in Zech. 14:4-5.

At the Rapture the Church, like Enoch, is taken out of the world according to Acts 15:13-17.

At the Revelation, the Millennial Kingdom is begun in Rom. 8:23.

 

[Major1]

You are arguing with a stump Major

One who has created his own fog to hide in

Thank you my friend and You are very correct and I realize that fact. However, there are many people who read what is written but do not make any comments. I want to make sure that those people are able to read the Biblical truth instead of a false teaching that might effect their eternal choices.

 

[Riberra]

Correct!

You have just agreed with what I have been saying!!

I agree, Jesus will come again from heaven at Armageddon.
I agree, It is at that point in time that He will establish His 1000 year rule on the earth.

He will not make a U-Turn and come back to heaven with anyone. He has in fact already taken His Bride, the church to heaven 7 years previous to Armageddon. He will rule from David's throne in Jerusalem.

The home of the church will be then as it was before Armageddon and that is in heaven as the Bride of Christ.

Luke 12:36.....
"and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately."

Rev. 19:7-8 then tells us about that wedding......
"Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints."

According to Jewish custom, the marriage contract, which often includes a dowry, is drawn up first. The contract parallels the act of faith we use when we trust Jesus to be our Savior. The dowry is His life, which was used to purchase us. When it's time for the wedding, the groom goes to the bride's house unannounced.

She comes out to meet him, and then he takes her to his father's house. This precisely correlates with the events according to the pre-trib scenario. Jesus, the Groom, comes down from heaven and calls up the Church, His Bride. After meeting in the air, He and His Bride return to His Father's house, heaven. The marriage supper itself will take place there, while down here on earth the final events of the tribulation will be playing out.

After the marriage supper of Jewish tradition, the bride and groom are presented to the world as man and wife. This corresponds to the time when Jesus returns to earth accompanied by an army "clothed in fine linen, white and clean"

Can you explain why the wife is not ready at the moment that the rapture happen if your theory of a caught up of the Church in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air before the tribulation is right ?

I want you to pay attention that the wife as make herself ready and only in Revelation 19....Nothing is mentioned about the marriage of the Lamb in Revelation 6 .

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

 

[keras]

The question is Where in Rev is rapture mentioned?

The fact is......it has been presented to YOU several times. Presentation is not the problem for you. It is understanding and acceptance.

I have studied Revelation very closely and there is no rapture other than for John [just a visit] and the 2 Witnesses.

THE only reason I respond to your claims is so that those others you speak of will know the truth of God's Word and not some off the wall theology.

That's good, provided it is the Truth you promote.

The truth is that you can not produce one single Scripture to back the Preterist claim. NOT ONE!!!!

I do not espouse the preterist belief. What I do promote is a literal fulfilment of the prophesies in the end times.

The Rapture occurs when the Church is caught up to meet Christ in the air as told to us in 1 Thess. 4:14, 17 which is before the tribulation.

Nothing there about going to heaven.

At the Revelation, He comes to the earth with THEM/Saints in 1 Thess. 3:13 & Zech. 14:5).

Jesus Returns accompanied by angels. He brings the souls of the martyrs with Him.

Again, at the Rapture Christ comes as the Bridegroom as seen in Matt. 25:10 to take unto Himself His bride, the Church which is recorded in Eph. 5:25-32.

There is no scripture saying the Lord will take His people to heaven. You make that up from inference and supposition.

 

[Major1]

Can you explain why the wife is not ready at the moment that the rapture happen if your theory of a caught up of the Church in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air before the tribulation is right ?

I want you to pay attention that the wife as make herself ready only in Revelation 19....

Please understand that "I" do not have any theories whatsoever.

I just read the Scriptures and believe what they say.

1 Thess. 4:16-17......
"The dead in Christ will rise, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord" (1 Thes 4:16-17).

1 Corth. 15:51-53..........
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality".

The answer to your question is that the Bride/Church is ready at the moment of the Rapture.

The church is described in Scripture as a bride waiting for her husband in 2 Cor. 11:2..........
"For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

Just as a bride looks forward eagerly to her coming marriage, when she will begin her life with the bridegroom, so a believer in Christ, even though he is thrilled with the fellowship he has with Christ now, looks forward to that fuller fellowship that will be his when he is in Christ’s presence forever. This is why the hope of Christ’s return is called a blessed or happy hope in Titus 2:13....
"looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ".

The more one loves Christ and seeks to have more intimate fellowship with Him, the more he will be looking for the return of Christ for him.

Now.....Rev. 19:7......."and his wife hath made herself ready."

I am not sure I understand what you are wanting to know. Obviously when we read Rev. 19 we see that the heavenly praise continues, this time for a call for gladness, rejoicing and giving God glory because the marriage of the Lamb has come.

The marriage of the Lamb:
The wife or bride of Christ is the church according to Matt. 22:2-14; John 3:29; 2 Cor. 11:2; Eph 5:25-32.

And the marriage is the eternal union of the church with Christ following the Rapture as seen in 1 Thess. 4:17. The fine linen, clean and white, represents the righteousness of the church, which has now been judged and purified at the judgment seat of Christ as explained in 1 Cor. 3:12-15: 2 Cor. 5:10.

In ancient times, a marriage was the single greatest celebration and social event in the biblical world. Preparations and celebrations were much more elaborate than those of today. And they also lasted much longer.

 

[Major1]

The question is Where in Rev is rapture mentioned?

I have studied Revelation very closely and there is no rapture other than for John [just a visit] and the 2 Witnesses.

That's good, provided it is the Truth you promote.

I do not espouse the preterist belief. What I do promote is a literal fulfilment of the prophesies in the end times.

Nothing there about going to heaven.

Jesus Returns accompanied by angels. He brings the souls of the martyrs with Him.

There is no scripture saying the Lord will take His people to heaven. You make that up from inference and supposition.

And I gave you my understanding. It is different than yours so we will have to stay in disagreement.

Alas......Life goes on.

 

[Riberra]

Please understand that "I" do not have any theories whatsoever.

I just read the Scriptures and believe what they say.

1 Thess. 4:16-17......
"The dead in Christ will rise, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord" (1 Thes 4:16-17).

1 Corth. 15:51-53..........
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality".

The answer to your question is that the Bride/Church is ready at the moment of the Rapture.

The church is described in Scripture as a bride waiting for her husband in 2 Cor. 11:2..........
"For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

Just as a bride looks forward eagerly to her coming marriage, when she will begin her life with the bridegroom, so a believer in Christ, even though he is thrilled with the fellowship he has with Christ now, looks forward to that fuller fellowship that will be his when he is in Christ’s presence forever. This is why the hope of Christ’s return is called a blessed or happy hope in Titus 2:13....
"looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ".

The blessed hope for the Christians is the moment that Jesus will appears in Glory.There is nothing in Titus 2:13. about a supposed rapture to Heaven before the tribulation .....Jesus tell us when He will come in Glory in Matthew 24:29-31

 

[Straightshot]

My comment

The Lord will first call For His true ecclesia of both the dead in Christ and those living at the time and immortalize them [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 5:1-9; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

Then the Lord will bring His unprecedented judgment upon an unbelieving world [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17]

Here are His true immortal ecclesia seen during the tribulation period [Revelation 4:4; 5:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14; 20:4 .... those already on thrones]]

Those of both Israel and the Gentiles of the nations who will become believers during the tribulation period and martyred for their faith will be made immortal just at the end of the tribulation [Revelation 6:9-11; 11:7-9; 15:2-3]

Then He will then appear upon the earth [Revelation 1:7] .... and He will gather the mortal survivors of the tribulation immediately "after the days of the tribulation" .... this action is not a resurrection of anyone [Matthew 24:29-31; Matthew 25:31-46]

Israel will be gathered first .... then those of the nations of the Gentiles

Those gathered will be separated and those found believing will enter and populate His millennial kingdom upon the earth .... as mortals

Those survivors of the tribulation found in unbelief will be rejected

 

[Riberra]

My comment

The Lord will first call For His true ecclesia of both the dead in Christ and those living at the time and immortalize them [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 5:1-9; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

Then the Lord will bring His unprecedented judgment upon an unbelieving world [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17]

Here are His true immortal ecclesia seen during the tribulation period [Revelation 4:4; ... those already on thrones]]

24 elders in Heaven already sitting on thrones ...Obviously ,they were more faster than you to get the places and sit in...These 24 elders already sitting on thrones have probably get there during a PRIOR pre-trib rapture.No more thrones are available.!

Revelation 4:4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

 

[Riberra]

However, this discussion has the benefit of [hopefully?] making others, who may have only been taught an end time rapture, to consider alternatives.
And the alternative to going to heaven, is going to live in all of the holy Land. Where we Christians, redeemed by the Lord will live in peace and prosperity, blessed by Him, as we fulfil our destiny of being His witnesses and a people who display His Light to the nations.
I have scripture in bucketsful to prove this truth.

Here's an exercise for you: read Psalms 107:1-43 Who is that Psalm talking about? Where do they go? What do they do? [v22 & v32] Who will observe and understand these things? v43.

Isaiah 11 seem to put in context and give the timing of when the people of God will live in Jerusalem and when Jerusalem will be a light for the other Nations.

That seem to happen during the millennium reign of Jesus on the Earth.

Isaiah 11
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

 

[Major1]

The blessed hope for the Christians is the moment that Jesus will appears in Glory.There is nothing in Titus 2:13. about a supposed rapture to Heaven before the tribulation .....Jesus tell us when He will come in Glory in Matthew 24:29-31

Again.....you have confused the Rapture.1st Resurrection with the 2nd Coming of Christ.

"waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ".

This is the next happening in the program of God. Christ is coming to take His church out of this world. The “blessed hope,” then, is the joyful assurance that God will extend His benefits to us and that Jesus Christ will return. We are waiting for this event now. Jesus said He would return in John 14:3.

We will be blessed beyond measure when we see Christ. That of course would not be the case at His 2nd Coming. All one has to do is read Revelation 19 to see that at the 2nd Coming there will not be any blessings or hope. It will instead be a time of war and judgment.

At His 2nd Coming in Matthew 24:29-31 and know that it is at the end of the 7 year tribulation, read Matt, 24:29......."AFTER the Tribulation"..........Then we see Christ coming in verse 30 which is in fact Revelation 19:11.

Thank God that we as Christians will be spared the horrors of that time!

1 Thee. 5:9.........
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ".

Romans 5:9.....
“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

Eph 5:6.......
“Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”


Then the one thing that Jesus repeatedly warned believers to be on the alert for was His Coming which could take place any moment. Therefore, if we accept your theology and say that Christ cannot come until after the Tribulation obviously destroys all thought of immanency!!!!

Matthew 24:44.......
"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

 

[Straightshot]

"These 24 elders already sitting on thrones have probably get there during a PRIOR pre-trib rapture !"


And with them are the Lord's true ecclesia made immortal "together" [1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18]

Peter sees them and is told who they are

There is no "probably" in the Lord's prophetic word

First the 24 immortal elders of His true ecclesia are seen [Revelation 4:4]

Then the 144000 mortals of Israel are seen on the earth [Revelation 7:1-8]

Then the vision switches back to heaven and the greater multitude of the Lord's true immortal ecclesia are seen by Peter, an elder of the Church .... the 24 elders and the multitude are see together [Revelation 7:9-17]

These have come "out" [EK] "away from" the tribulation period .... if one is "out" of something, one is not "in" something

And these are seen several times as immortals during the tribulation period and not on the earth during Revelation's unfolding

You are fighting a biblical truth for some reason .... be careful what you have been led to believe on this significant matter

Denying the Lord's promise is not a good idea and it may be detrimental to you [Matthew 15:1-13; Revelation 3:15-20]

I would suggest that you reconsider your view on this subject

 

[Major1]

24 elders in Heaven already sitting on thrones ...Obviously ,they were more faster than you to get the places and sit in...These 24 elders already sitting on thrones have probably get there during a PRIOR pre-trib rapture.No more thrones are available.!

Revelation 4:4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

"Probably".. Again, you are guessing or assuming what is not in evidence.

Those 24 elders stand for the total church from Pentecost to the Rapture. If there is a Rapture seen in Rev. 4:1 then John seeing that representation in heaven would actually confirm that teaching.

 

[Major1]

"These 24 elders already sitting on thrones have probably get there during a PRIOR pre-trib rapture !"


And with them are the Lord's true ecclesia made immortal "together" [1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18]

Peter sees them and is told who they are

There is no "probably" in the Lord's prophetic word

First the 24 immortal elders of His true ecclesia are seen [Revelation 4:4]

Then the 144000 mortals of Israel are seen on the earth [Revelation 7:1-8]

And then the greater multitude of the Lord's true immortal ecclesia are seen by Peter, an elder of the Church [Revelation 7:9-17]

These have come "out" [EK] "away from" the tribulation period .... if one is "out" of something, one is not "in" something

And these are seen several times as immortals during the tribulation period and not on the earth during Revelation's unfolding

You are fighting a biblical truth for some reason .... be careful what you have been led to believe on this significant matter

Denying the Lord's promise is not a good idea and it may be detrimental to you [Matthew 15:1-13; Revelation 3:15-20]

I would suggest that you reconsider your view on this subject

And I for another would certainly second that advice.