Judas was saved and then lost his salvation

[ewq1938]

What does scripture say about Judas?

1: Judas was a devil...................................John 6:70-71
2: Judas was a traitor................................Luke 6:16
3: Judas was a betrayer.............................Multiple scriptures.
4: Judas was a thief...................................John 12:6
5: Judas didn't care for the poor.................John 12:6
6: Judas was spiritually unclean...................John 13:11
7: Judas guilty of a greater sin....................John 19:11
8: Judas is a wicked man............................Psalms 109:6
9: Judas is condemned...............................Psalms 109:7
10: Judas is lost........................................John 17:12
11: Judas is the son of perdition.................John 17:12
12: Judas' prayer is sin...............................Psalms 109:7
13: Judas deserves no mercy......................Psalms 109:12
14: Judas committed suicide.......................Matthew 27:5
15: Judas influenced by Satan.....................John 13:2
16: Judas had Satan within him...................Luke 22:3-6
17: Judas harmed Christ.............................John 13:18, Psalms 41:9
18: Judas better off never born...................Mark 14:18-2, Matthew 26:24
19: Judas knew he sinned against Jesus.......Matthew 27:3-5
20: Judas' habitation to be desolate.............Acts 1:20, Psalms 69:25

 

[Raggedyman]

What about Judas being called the son of perdition and being possessed by the devil?

Peter was called Satan by Jesus
Kinda nullifies your point

 

[Radagast]

all infants are saved when they come into the world and so they are at that time elect.

And you find that where in the Bible?

 

[LoveofTruth]

And you find that where in the Bible?

read Romans 7:9 showing that all are alive once until the commandment coms to their understanding then the sin revives 9 or sin nature and they die) And John 3 t=where Jesus said the only reason men are condemned is when they hate the light because their deeds are evil. And thee is a time when the child has not done any good or evil and so where no law is there is not transgression and sin is not imputed where there is no law.

also all we like sheep have gone astray, showing that all were like sheep or saved before they have sin revive and they die and go astray. So the free gift came upon all men ( children included) unto justification of life. And jesus is the saviour of all men ( infants included) specially of them that believe.
i ado not believe in Universalism, or that all will be saved in the end. But that Christ died for the sin of all and all come into the world as infants and saved by His grace until they hate the light and have sin revive and they die spiritually and then they need to be born again.

Jesus blessed the infants and said of such is the kingdom of God and their angels do always behold the Father etc

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

when a person enters into unbelief they open themselves to satan, and the actual betrayal, starts in the heart but is done when Judas actually betrayed Jesus. The issue is not the timing or when Satan entered into him. But the fact that he once had the trust of jesus and was a sheep and saved and then betrayed Jesus and had his name blotted out of the book of life and went to his own place and it was better he had not ben born.

Then what about doubting thomas? What about peter who denied christ 3 times and god still saved him by praying for him?- what about judas being called the son of perdition? And it being prophesied that he was?

 

[Radagast]

read Romans 7:9 showing that all are alive once until the commandment coms to their understanding then the sin revives 9 or sin nature and they die) And John 3 t=where Jesus said the only reason men are condemned is when they hate the light because their deeds are evil. And thee is a time when the child has not done any good or evil and so where no law is there is not transgression and sin is not imputed where there is no law.

I'm struggling to make sense of your English, but I don't believe you understand either Romans 7 or John 3 correctly.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

I really don't know that we can say much for certain about Judas, given the conflicted & limited info presented in the Bible - let alone whether he was (ever) "saved." I don't find proof-texting very convincing.

I do wonder about Judas though. I think most Christians would agree he betrayed Jesus. I wonder if Judas wanted forgiveness? If Jesus could forgive Peter's denial, could he forgive Judas's betrayal? All I can say is that I believe God is merciful & can forgive whoever he wants. It's not for me to speculate on any one person.

Rright. I do wonder about rhe whole judas and peter thing.. The fact god forgave peter rather than judas shows god can and has mercy on who ever he wills.

 

[LoveofTruth]

ewq1938, here is my response

What does scripture say about Judas before he fell by transgression and departed from God and betrayed jesus?

1: Judas once belonged to the Father .......................John 17:6
2: Judas was an apostle or sent one of God...............Matthew 10:2-4
3: Judas belonged to Jesus and was HIS disciple, and he was not the
devils..Matthew 10:1
4: Judas was given power by Jesus to cast out devils.........Matthew 10:1
5: Judas was given power by Jesus to heal.........Matthew 10:1
6: Judas was sent forth by Jesus to preach..........Matthew 10:5,7
7: Judas was called as a sheep By Jesus..............Matthew 10:16
8: Judas was sent to the LOST sheep..................Matthew 10:6
9: Judas had the peace of God to give................Matthew 10:13
10: Judas had the Spirit of the Father in him and to speak for him
...........Matthew 10:20
11: Judas was as his master Jesus................Matthew 10:25
12: Judas was of the household of Jesus ............Matthew 10:25
13: Judas was a familiar friend of Jesus whom he trusted...........
Psalms 41:9 and John 13:18
14: Judas fell by transgression.......................Acts 1:25
15: Judas was blotted out of the book of life and no longer written with
the righteous who are in that book ...............Psalms 69:28

 

[LoveofTruth]

What does scripture say about Judas?

1: Judas was a devil...................................John 6:70-71
2: Judas was a traitor................................Luke 6:16
3: Judas was a betrayer.............................Multiple scriptures.
4: Judas was a thief...................................John 12:6
5: Judas didn't care for the poor.................John 12:6
6: Judas was spiritually unclean...................John 13:11
7: Judas guilty of a greater sin....................John 19:11
8: Judas is a wicked man............................Psalms 109:6
9: Judas is condemned...............................Psalms 109:7
10: Judas is lost........................................John 17:12
11: Judas is the son of perdition.................John 17:12
12: Judas' prayer is sin...............................Psalms 109:7
13: Judas deserves no mercy......................Psalms 109:12
14: Judas committed suicide.......................Matthew 27:5
15: Judas influenced by Satan.....................John 13:2
16: Judas had Satan within him...................Luke 22:3-6
17: Judas harmed Christ.............................John 13:18, Psalms 41:9
18: Judas better off never born...................Mark 14:18-2, Matthew 26:24
19: Judas knew he sinned against Jesus.......Matthew 27:3-5
20: Judas' habitation to be desolate.............Acts 1:20, Psalms 69:25

What does scripture say about Judas before he fell by transgression and departed from God and betrayed jesus?

1: Judas once belonged to the Father .......................John 17:6
2: Judas was an apostle or sent one of God...............Matthew 10:2-4
3: Judas belonged to Jesus and was HIS disciple, and he was not the
devils..Matthew 10:1
4: Judas was given power by Jesus to cast out devils.........Matthew 10:1
5: Judas was given power by Jesus to heal.........Matthew 10:1
6: Judas was sent forth by Jesus to preach..........Matthew 10:5,7
7: Judas was called as a sheep By Jesus..............Matthew 10:16
8: Judas was sent to the LOST sheep..................Matthew 10:6
9: Judas had the peace of God to give................Matthew 10:13
10: Judas had the Spirit of the Father in and to speak for him
...........Matthew 10:20
11: Judas was as his master Jesus................Matthew 10:25
12: Judas was of the household of Jesus ............Matthew 10:25
13: Judas was a familiar friend of Jesus whom he trusted...........
Psalms 41:9 and John 13:18
14: Judas fell by transgression.......................Acts 1:25
15: Judas was blotted out of the book of life and no longer written with
the righteous who are in that book ...............Psalms 69:28[/QUOTE]

 

[LoveofTruth]

I'm struggling to make sense of your English, but I don't believe you understand either Romans 7 or John 3 correctly.

in Romans 7, i and other commentators agree that paul was speaking in verse 9 of when he was without the law as an infant or young child. He was "alive" once, spiritually. And he died when the commandment came ( to his understanding) and sin revived ( his sin nature) and he died ( not physical death but spiritual)

this is the right interpretation. The reason you don't see it is because you have been taught a false view and to accept what scripture says here would shatter the entire superstructure of many assemblies and their false eternal security view and the erroneous calvinistic views as well.

as far as John 3, Jesus says the reason men are condemned is when they hate the light because their deeds are evil. But until a child knows to do good and does it not sin is not imputed. And so they have not done good or evil yet as scripture can show about children. So they are not condemned and therefor saved until they hate the light.

if you disagree show me your interpretation

 

[LoveofTruth]

I'm struggling to make sense of your English, but I don't believe you understand either Romans 7 or John 3 correctly.

and sorry about my english I type to fast and have some grammar issues

 

[ewq1938]

ewq1938, here is my response

What does scripture say about Judas before he fell by transgression and departed from God and betrayed jesus?

The gospels were written after Judas betrayed Christ. As you see, Judas is a doomed man. Nothing in your list of scriptures changes what is in the list I posted. He is condemned and lost. He is going to the lake of fire just as your number 15 confirms:

15: Judas was blotted out of the book of life and no longer written with
the righteous who are in that book ...............Psalms 69:28

 

[LoveofTruth]

The gospels were written after Judas betrayed Christ. As you see, Judas is a doomed man. Nothing in your list of scriptures changes what is in the list I posted. He is condemned and lost. He is going to the lake of fire just as your number 15 confirms:

15: Judas was blotted out of the book of life and no longer written with
the righteous who are in that book ...............Psalms 69:28

I was just pointing out what Judas was before he fell, a saved man,

and the fact that the scriptures were written after Judas died, does not change that fact. The scriptures were given by the Spirit of God through men and they convey the actual events and stories when jesus was among them.

You say Judas was a devil i say he became a devil, as scripture shows from the two perspectives

some try to say he was always a devil or their that is where they add to scripture and assume things wrongly as scripture shows

 

[LoveofTruth]

You know this how?



How does that imply salvation? In fact, Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him (John 6:70-71: Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him. / John 13:21: After saying these things, Jesus was troubled in his spirit, and testified, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.”)



How does that imply salvation? (Matthew 7:22-23: On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’)



How does that imply salvation?

for the scriptures to speak of the 12 disciples being HIS (belonging to Jesus) is clear. Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice. To be HIS sheep is the same as he called unto him HIS disciples . They were no doubt saved and had power given to all of them, Judas included. it is distortion of the plain text to try and escape this clear consequence.

I believe that many will be troubled by this section in matthew because they know it is a strong evidence and it does say the 12 were HIS and given power to cast out devils and had the Spirit of the father speaking in them and of Jesus household etc and called as sheep sent to the LOST sheep. Only those with biases and denominational doctrinal stances will not see it or try to escape the clear consequence.

i am aware that some have believed wrongly about these things for many many many years some for over 20 to 30 years perhaps and its hard to admit their error for all these years. But better late than never/

 

[aiki]

Blind post. Sorry.

How was anyone saved, that is, spiritually regenerated (born again) through faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour, prior to Jesus' atoning death and resurrection? The disciples were chosen, yes, but saved before Christ died on the cross and was resurrected? How would that work, exactly?

Selah.

 

[ToBeLoved]

when a person enters into unbelief they open themselves to satan, and the actual betrayal, starts in the heart but is done when Judas actually betrayed Jesus. The issue is not the timing or when Satan entered into him. But the fact that he once had the trust of jesus and was a sheep and saved and then betrayed Jesus and had his name blotted out of the book of life and went to his own place and it was better he had not ben born.

There is no way Judas was saved.

God's Word tells us those who the Father has given Jesus, He will loose none. Plus, before Jesus death, being saved would have been imputed to them via their faith. Where does it say in God's Word that Judas had faith?

 

[ToBeLoved]

for the scriptures to speak of the 12 disciples being HIS (belonging to Jesus) is clear. Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice. To be HIS sheep is the same as he called unto him HIS disciples . They were no doubt saved and had power given to all of them, Judas included. it is distortion of the plain text to try and escape this clear consequence.

No. This doesn't mean they were automatically saved when they became disciples.

And yes, Jesus did say 'My sheep will hear my voice", so what do you think Judas heard? Jesus voice and he still betrayed Him?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Blind post. Sorry.

How was anyone saved, that is, spiritually regenerated (born again) through faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour, prior to Jesus' atoning death and resurrection? The disciples were chosen, yes, but saved before Christ died on the cross and was resurrected? How would that work, exactly?

Selah.

I agree. Only if by faith salvation was imputed to them, but the BIble doesn't say that and Judas was not around for Pentecost, which is when they received the Holy Spirit.

So I actually agree with you here.

 

[ewq1938]

I was just pointing out what Judas was before he fell, a saved man,

I don't see any evidence that he was saved.

You say Judas was a devil i say he became a devil, as scripture shows from the two perspectives

"I" don't say it, scripture does.

Joh_6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Jesus knew Judas would betray him from the beginning. That implies Judas was a devil from the start.

some try to say he was always a devil or their that is where they add to scripture and assume things wrongly as scripture shows

Scripture doesn't show he changed.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Blind post. Sorry.

How was anyone saved, that is, spiritually regenerated (born again) through faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour, prior to Jesus' atoning death and resurrection? The disciples were chosen, yes, but saved before Christ died on the cross and was resurrected? How would that work, exactly?

Selah.

I answered this before if you check. There is so much i can say about it. But all were born again and saved by the word of God in the new birth. even men like David said Gods word quickened him