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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
To whom and why God gave the Sabbaths?
- Thread starter Cribstyl
- Start date
yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Whether present there physically or not,
I believe in SCRIPTURE
iT IS WRITTEN that YHWH calls and chooses for HIMSELF [keeps for HIMSELF]
a REMNANT from every nation[peoples/tribes/groups]
as HIS PLAN and HIS WORD to ABRAHAM that ALL (not some) of the nations would be BLESSED through him. (not apart from him).
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pat34lee
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That is not only a misquote, but an outright lie. Paul never
spoke evil of the law, even in the most misinterpreted verses.
What could he count on before?
He was of the circumcision (part of the covenants of God).
Tribe of Benjamin (still serving God) as opposed to the dispersed tribes.
Philippians 3:3-4
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
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pat34lee
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This had to do with people coming into the church and trying to
change what Paul had taught them about the feasts. Not Judaizers.
Article Quote:
"By way of historical background, it is widely known that the "Colossian heresy" was not Judaizers but Gnosticism. Many have assumed that both elements were present due to the references to circumcision, Sabbath, and Holy Days. However, Gnosticism was not a separate religion, but a religious concept that could be combined with an established religion with the promise of "improving" it."
http://www.giveshare.org/HolyDay/col216.html
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Just in passing,
is it called that today when different religions just want to join together WITHOUT thinking it improves anything 'in' the religion - simply for social and/or economic and/ or political/power/control reasons ?
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1John2:4
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Ken,Yes, I have devised this plan to come on here, under my own name with my own picture, to secretely troll through the threads with the sole mission of proving how wrong everyone else is and why correct I am.
Dude... I am a fallible fallible man. But, I know Jesus... and I trust in his work and if you do that makes us brothers. Most of the details beyond that are usually not as important as we think they are. Now if I were on here pushing a "works based" salvation, which I am not... works alone do not save... then you would really have a right to make these assumptions. Or, if I were leading people away from God, you would have a right to make these assumptions. But I am an open book... I am here under my own name and my own picture and you can Google me and read any of 100 articles, videos, interviews, whatever you want. And what you will likely come away with is that you don't agree with me in certain areas... but that my love of Jesus and my appreciation for the sacrifice he made on our behalf, over-rides any differences in SOME doctrinal conclusions.
Brother, I feel your heart from your posts. You are only trying to help other brothers and sisters to see that the enemy has stolen from them. He stole God's Sabbaths and His instructions, you just want to help them understand that you are not a Judiazer, you care for them and want them to see the blessings that they are missing out on. I was the same place you are with this same group a couple months ago and it really put me in a bad place for a little while. I hope that you will find another group on this forum that is interested in learning truth. Remember what Yeshua said in Matthew 7:6.
Have a enriching Yom Kippur!!
Shalom
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Yes, thank you.
I didn't know if the current society has anything like that old 'gnosticism' or not -
just was wondering if that's an accurate label
for what's going on everywhere today.
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No, but all commands do not apply to all people.
I do not have to be circumcised, because Christ was circumcised for me.
I do not have to build a boat, like Noah did.
I do not have to sacrifice animals, because Christ was the final sacrifice.
I do not keep a Sabbath day, because it was the "sign" of the Sinai covenant and Christ is my Sabbath rest everyday of the week. A "sign" of the New Covenant is baptism by immersion and celebration of the Lord's Supper.
.
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e
Php 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
(He was considered righteous by the Law of Moses, while he held the coats of those who stoned Stephen.)
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (Hebrews 11:16)
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Here Paul compares the Sinai covenant to "bondage" and compels the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant.
The inheritance does not come through the Sinai covenant.
.
Php 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
(He was considered righteous by the Law of Moses, while he held the coats of those who stoned Stephen.)
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (Hebrews 11:16)
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Here Paul compares the Sinai covenant to "bondage" and compels the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant.
The inheritance does not come through the Sinai covenant.
.
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pat34lee
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Well, that part was correct, anyway.
Jesus kept the commands because he had to. The same is true of anyone
who wants to please God.
You can't follow the law for someone else, and nobody can do it for you.
Not even Jesus.
He took our punishment for our failure to follow the law perfectly.
Isn't that enough?
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pat34lee
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Let's start with who the bondwoman was. Hagar, the handmaid and her son Ishmael.
The children of promise are Israel. Correct? The promise being God's covenant with Abram.
How many OT covenants were there? Five, counting the New Covenant in Jeremiah.
Why is the third covenant the only one people want to see gone? Because it lists
their duties to God, not only his promises to them.
The only problem is not with the law, but with those who try to be justified by keeping
the law. Even in the OT, justification came through faith, not the law, but they were still
required to keep the law. Why is that if we are not to follow it also?
Galatians is all about why we should follow Torah
https://www.eliyah.com/galatians4kjv.html
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Seriously, why are you trying to defend something you wrote that is not defendable. Someone may have taught you that, but where did he/she derive it from? The Israelites were slaves and I hardly believe those representing other countries would be teaming up with slaves. And I notice you changed your tune a might bit. First you wrote all and now many or most. Lets get real, stick to the facts. Just as you have been misled, you could be misleading others.
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The article in the link skipped over Galatians 4:30-31. I wonder why?
Then it also said Paul was not against circumcision and used Timothy as an example.
Why did Paul have Timothy circumcised? Because he knew the Jews would not accept him unless he was circumcised. Later in his ministry Paul put his foot down on the issue and did not compel Titus to be circumcised, because he had enough of the Judaisers.
Gal 2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Gal 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Paul gave a warning in the letter to the Philippians that we need to consider on this forum about those who put the focus on Torah and circumcision.
It sums up his later viewpoint on circumcision.
Php 3:2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh.
.
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You need to read more of the chapter. In the loosely quoted Paul isn't talking about the law. Paul is talking about his works of the law. Works of the law is what you're requiring of others to have salvation.
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