To whom and why God gave the Sabbaths?

[bugkiller]

Yes, please do. You, Ken, have come on here and, in a way, tried to belittle us and yet do not offer much in explanation.

He most likely won't be here much longer. He's already got a private scholar or at least sent an invitation.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Galatians is so misunderstood, since is always read out of context many times. Gal 4:9 is clealry showing it is former pagans who have received the Messiah and they are trying to go back to some of what they used to do, is who Paul is talking to, but it is always seen as Feast Days were the weak and beggarly elements when they passage is cherry picked.

Yeppers it is. Is it your idea that they just observe the sabbath? Would not that be trading one tradition for another?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You keep telling us we are either taking verses out of context or Paul was referring not to Torah but to oral law. Show me in the following verses either one of your proclamations:
Gal3:15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed, meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

That sure does not sound like it was written for pagans.

bugkiller

 

[BABerean2]

Galatians is so misunderstood, since is always read out of context many times. Gal 4:9 is clealry showing it is former pagans who have received the Messiah and they are trying to go back to some of what they used to do, is who Paul is talking to, but it is always seen as Feast Days were the weak and beggarly elements when they passage is cherry picked.

You might be able to get away with this, if it were not for Colossians 2:16-17...

Col 2:16　 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:　
Col 2:17　 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


shadow = weak and beggarly

How would you describe yourself when compared to the Judaisers?

.

 

[listed]

Look, iron sharpening iron is not a sword fight, that is how the iron gets chipped, not sharpened. I am not interested in sword fights, not because I don't think I can win... but because I don't think they reflect the fruits of the Spirit. So, instead of engaging with people who ONLY WANT TO FIGHT, I have ignored them. One of the greatest gifts the Lord gives us is time... why would we waste it on people who just want to fight? Besides, we are to love our neighbors, even our enemies... yet so many will argue to death with a "brother" because they reach a different Scriptural conclusion. I find that to be spiritually immature and unedifying so I choose not to take part. I will be happy to discuss things, even if we disagree... but I am not going to fight.

Aware of the verse about iron sharpens iron. Debate does that and is our iron. My sword is sharpened with the whetstone of the Bible with the hand of the Holy Spirit. You can say fight or other words you have used if you want. Here I prefer to call it debate. Time is valuable. Here the argument (debate) is over one's soul and more important than time. Each of us spend as much time here as we want to and no more. It does take discipline. This can be very addictive. Quit you're whining.

You have come here to a place that largely doesn't agree with you. This is violating another's house. What you have done is come here very strong making immediate stiff opposition. Do what you have done here at a bar and you might very well be violently bounced out. Here the patrons can't do that.

Now some of us here love our neighbors and is the reason we continue here. I have a 1,000 item to do list. So I do what I want on that list.

Since you claim some resources aren't available to you, you've got your information from a third source (spoon feed) instead of study. Been there and done that. Personal study has made a huge difference in what I believe and am willing to practice. But then I've never quit asking questions in my quest for answers (truth).

Many of my relationships have come to a live and let live relationship. Doesn't mean I don't still seek others of my kind. So I keep putting out the bait so-to-speak.

Edifying doesn't mean agreement and can take on the characteristics of argument/discussion. There is a mighty fine line there. Paul is a great example.

There are boards here in this forum where you can talk about what you believe with little opposition. If that is what you want you're out of place here. There are mainly three reasons for posting on this board; arguing, defending truth and seeking converts. You confess you don't want to argue. That leaves two of them. Personally your posts show you're seeking converts. That is against the rules.

 

[listed]

Brother, in no way am I trying to belittle anyone. The problem is really simple... when somebody comes on who has a viewpoint, paradigm, or has drawn a conclusion that differs from others, some people will want to at least hear it out. The others will begin to drop verses and expect me, in this case, to take many hours out of my day to answer all their questions. The problem is, they don't really want to know the answers, what they want to do is prove me wrong. Well, I don't care who is correct, we all have error... but I don't desire to take part in a theological urinating match. If you want to talk we can talk, but I am not going to share something I think is special, holy, in harmony with God's character, and then have it... and in my view HIM... profaned in the process. It is one thing not to agree, it is another when people make it personal and that happens on this site often. I think it best I just pack it in and forget this site.

As for Galatians... once the gospel left Judea it went out to the pagans... to the people who didn't know God and were not known by God. The Galatians, most likely the Gauls, worshiped many gods and had many different holy days that they observed. When they came into the faith, they were free from that pagan bondage. However, they began to be confronted by two demons. One... the draw BACK to their previous life, to those days they felt so much a part of. These were pagans so the days they were returning to WERE NOT Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, or Tabernacles... for those are things that our messiah himself took part in. Please don't lose sight of that last sentence, the things so many on this site are quick to call bondage, a curse, actions that nullify faith... are things the very messiah we follow did. The second spirit that these Galatians fought against was Gnosticism. The Gnostics were calling themselves "Jews" but they were not Jewish... these are who the "Synagogue of Satan" verse is speaking of. They were pushing works of the law unto salvation (like circumcision) so the Galatians were dealing with Jewish Halacha being pushed on them... probably frustrating and disheartening them... and it was pushing them back into their previous lives which is what Paul was trying to deal with in chapter 4.

Isn't proving others wrong what you're up to?

 

[Ken Rank]

Aware of the verse about iron sharpens iron. Debate does that and is our iron. My sword is sharpened with the whetstone of the Bible with the hand of the Holy Spirit. You can say fight or other words you have used if you want. Here I prefer to call it debate. Time is valuable. Here the argument (debate) is over one's soul and more important than time. Each of us spend as much time here as we want to and no more. It does take discipline. This can be very addictive. Quit you're whining.

A. there is a difference between debate and name calling. I have watched brothers call other brothers names, on this site and plenty of places elsewhere, and that promotes division within the body and that is something God HATES (see Prov. 6:16-19). If God hates division so should we... so debate is fine, arguing is not. Besides, I am not the originator of this position:

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

B. Quit my whining? I just supported my position with a Proverb and with words from Paul... I will be sure to ask God to stop his whining, and that, when He sees Paul, to ask him to do the same, ok?

By the way, thanks, for providing an easy example of something that might have been better off not said.

You have come here to a place that largely doesn't agree with you. This is violating another's house. What you have done is come here very strong making immediate stiff opposition. Do what you have done here at a bar and you might very well be violently bounced out. Here the patrons can't do that.

This is sophomoric. I am a Christian and in about 95% of all beliefs (or more) we are probably in perfect agreement. On SOME things we don't see eye to eye... so what? You are going to say that >>I<< am violating somebody else's house because I have a few different views in a religious culture that has anywhere between 10,000 and 40,000 denominations and sects? Do you think there is that much division because of agreement?

Now some of us here love our neighbors and is the reason we continue here. I have a 1,000 item to do list. So I do what I want on that list.

You have a skewed view of people. I would have said that the VAST MAJORITY of people on here love neighbor. Some, I might have added, have learned how to even extend that to their enemies as we were told to do.

Since you claim some resources aren't available to you, you've got your information from a third source (spoon feed) instead of study. Been there and done that. Personal study has made a huge difference in what I believe and am willing to practice. But then I've never quit asking questions in my quest for answers (truth).

I have no idea what you are even trying to say here. What resources are not available to me? On top of having what might be the most extensive version of eSword anyone has, our congregation has over 3000 books and resource material. But none of that matters, what matters is that the Spirit is with us to help us understand it and discern it. To assume I am just regurgitating what others believe is nonsense as well... I am not one of those people on this site who spend their time copying and pasting what everyone else says. Just like this post, every word is written in one quick sitting from the top of my head not by copying others and pasting them here. You make some off assumptions my friend but... people do that when they hide behind screen names.

Edifying doesn't mean agreement and can take on the characteristics of argument/discussion. There is a mighty fine line there. Paul is a great example.

Why would you assume I think edifying means agreement? We do not have to agree. If you think I believe we all should agree, please read the underlined sentence again. Being of "one mind and one accord" is NOT looking, thinking, and acting alike. It is being able to come together in function, to work together toward a common goal DESPITE ANY DIFFERENCES.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[listed]

Think about how your conclusion paints God. You just said that "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul" or "Do not steal" or "Do not murder" is a ministry that brings death? That is not consistent with anything save for modern, dispensational, anomian thinking.

The law contained the do's and don'ts but it ALSO contains our pronunciation of guilt. We are guilty, we deserve death... but through Yeshua we have life. It is just like this...

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Based on your conclusion above, I imagine you like many others see this as the commandments being nailed to the cross. but again, that means "love the Lord thy God and Him only" gets nailed to the cross. "Do not steal" gets nailed to the cross and then what, we live lawlessly? No... our GUILT, the pronunciation of our guilt, the verdict of our guilt, is nailed to the cross. That is the curse that Yeshua came to reverse... he came to reverse the curse of death... but your conclusion has his coming to get rid of the 10 commandments??? The same commandments he faithfully followed?

BK keeps posting "Sin was in the world before the law." and "is the reason for it." Both are based on the Bible; Rom 5:13; Gal 3:19 and LK 16:16.

 

[Ken Rank]

Isn't proving others wrong what you're up to?

Yes, I have devised this plan to come on here, under my own name with my own picture, to secretely troll through the threads with the sole mission of proving how wrong everyone else is and why correct I am.

Dude... I am a fallible fallible man. But, I know Jesus... and I trust in his work and if you do that makes us brothers. Most of the details beyond that are usually not as important as we think they are. Now if I were on here pushing a "works based" salvation, which I am not... works alone do not save... then you would really have a right to make these assumptions. Or, if I were leading people away from God, you would have a right to make these assumptions. But I am an open book... I am here under my own name and my own picture and you can Google me and read any of 100 articles, videos, interviews, whatever you want. And what you will likely come away with is that you don't agree with me in certain areas... but that my love of Jesus and my appreciation for the sacrifice he made on our behalf, over-rides any differences in SOME doctrinal conclusions.

 

[Ken Rank]

BK keeps posting "Sin was in the world before the law." and "is the reason for it." Both are based on the Bible; Rom 5:13; Gal 3:19 and LK 16:16.

If you believe there was no law until Mt. Sinai, then you would be, respectfully, wrong. I can show you a number of places where we see the law kept. One that comes to mind is Genesis 26:5. But I can share upwards to 20-30 places where we see commandments generally viewed as Sinai forward... being observed prior to Sinai. That doesn't negate what Paul wrote, it just means we have to adjust how we are viewing what Paul wrote.

 

[Bob S]

Why would you say such a thing? Just because I view the law differently than you means what, I think we work for our salvation and the letter of the law trumps love and/or the spirit of the law? Yeshua said that ALL the Torah and ALL the Prophets are summed up in loving God and neighbor (two commandments from the OT by the way, they are not "brand new"). That fact doesn't abrogate anything else, it just means those two sum up the rest.

34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

If you cannot see the difference then maybe you are not a savvy as I thought.

We are not saved by works of the old covenant. We are saved by our faith and His grace period.

3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish?

I personally believe that we are a part of Israel. Bob, you speak about the new covenant, so I ask you, according to the bible alone... who is it made with? Please share the verse you use to make your point.

Trouble is I don't buy what you personally believe. Israel is no more. the system for their salvation is but history. Jesus is the tree and both Jew and Gentile after accepting Jesus as Savior are grafted into the tree the same way. The chance for Israel to enter in as a nation is past.

Yes, and 1 John 3:4 defines sin as anomia... being outside of the law. Brother, grab a dictionary and look up righteousness.... we are to walk in righteousness... check out the definition.

Well I be, I can get the real meaning for righteousness from the dictionary, but the Bible scholars used wrong words in translating words into meaningful English? I should trust your meaning for words over the Bible scholars who spend many years studying the Greek and Hebrew languages? Thanks, but I, for one, trust that God has had His hand in guiding those faithful men in their translation. The NIV is the works of many scholars and I believe they were unbiased. You, on the other hand are trying to fit your preconceived ideas with some drum up ideas.

Are you saying that the all powerful, all knowing, all seeing God can't see through blood?

Hmmm! So I guess the sacrificial system was really a scam. Man had to perform the rituals from Adam to Jesus for naught. It was and is not what God sees, it is what He commands. Blood is demanded for the remission of sins.

There is a better definition for Kippur, but it is becoming more and more archaic in English as our culture has gone pro-feminist and pro-PC. The word is a legal term, coverature. It means that the husband (Yeshua) is the authority of the wife (us) and our guilt has to be answered for by him (which he did) and through that we are forgiven. He assumed our guilt, that is what coverature meant in this country up until 50 years ago. A wife was almost NEVER prosecuted for anything... if she broke the law the husband answered and that is what happens with us and messiah. We broke the law and he answered and received our penalty. We sure get close to turning his blood into an idol when we take this too far the other direction.

I am 81 years old, old enough to know your history of men taking the blame for women is pure bunk.

Jesus is the scapegoat that carries all our sins into the wilderness. As to carrying the blame, I have to think about that.

Again, if you believe that the commandments were nailed to the cross (which is what you teach) then you are saying love God, don't steal, no murder....

That is pure bunk. Anything that has to do with morality has been from the beginning and back even to Lucifer's sin. Morality is eternal. Ritual law like the Sabbath was proclaimed after the Israelites crossed the Red Sea. the Sabbath command has never been given to any other nation or people. It was very important to only Israel and is the only ritual command in the now defunct 10 commandments. Weighing the writings of Paul over your thoughts I have no reason to change from Paul to you. Paul wrote the following and it debunks your thoughts completely.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, (10 commandments) came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

all that is nailed to the cross. Brother.. our GUILT is what is taken away, not "honor your mother and father" or "rest on the Sabbath day." The latter is a BLESSING given to us by a God who knows we NEED rest and NEED to set aside time to be with Him. You say bondage and I wrap my arms around Him on that day and cry DELIGHT just as King David did.

Sorry, but you have to be ignoring Paul and John. Torah was nailed to the Cross. Torah was the old covenant. Heb 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Heb7:12For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

 

[listed]

A. there is a difference between debate and name calling. I have watched brothers call other brothers names, on this site and plenty of places elsewhere, and that promotes division within the body and that is something God HATES (see Prov. 6:16-19). If God hates division so should we... so debate is fine, arguing is not. Besides, I am not the originator of this position:

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

You even boded strivings about the law. You further emphasized it is unprofitable and vain.Why are you doing it?

B. Quit my whining? I just supported my position with a Proverb and with words from Paul... I will be sure to ask God to stop his whining, and that, when He sees Paul, to ask him to do the same, ok?

Read your posts. They are great examples of whining.

By the way, thanks, for providing an easy example of something that might have been better off not said.

You're most welcome.

This is sophomoric. I am a Christian and in about 95% of all beliefs (or more) we are probably in perfect agreement. On SOME things we don't see eye to eye... so what? You are going to say that >>I<< am violating somebody else's house because I have a few different views in a religious culture that has anywhere between 10,000 and 40,000 denominations and sects? Do you think there is that much division because of agreement? [/ quote]If you're a Christian quit promoting non Christian view points (modified Judaism).Christianity isn't based on the covenant written in stone even if you say it is merely moved. No one can examplify the fruits of the Spirit and sin. Yes I know that you have posted I John 3:4 to prove sin is disobedience to the law. My suggestion is to read the first half of the verse paying attention to a little word "also." The law didn't invent sin.

You have a skewed view of people. I would have said that the VAST MAJORITY of people on here love neighbor. Some, I might have added, have learned how to even extend that to their enemies as we were told to do.

Spent my life studying people. Sorry you don't like my understanding. Love is a very interesting subject. Mostly people think love is giving me what I want. I believe love also says no just as God has. I believe love is getting out the whip to punish just as God did. My dad did the same with his belt.

I have no idea what you are even trying to say here. What resources are not available to me? On top of having what might be the most extensive version of eSword anyone has, our congregation has over 3000 books and resource material. But none of that matters, what matters is that the Spirit is with us to help us understand it and discern it. To assume I am just regurgitating what others believe is nonsense as well... I am not one of those people on this site who spend their time copying and pasting what everyone else says. Just like this post, every word is written in one quick sitting from the top of my head not by copying others and pasting them here. You make some off assumptions my friend but... people do that when they hide behind screen names.

Read your posts. Using a screen name (moniker) is the norm here and a wise thing to do. Using a first and last name here in fantasy land means nothing. Quit riding people about it.

Why would you assume I think edifying means agreement? We do not have to agree. If you think I believe we all should agree, please read the underlined sentence again. Being of "one mind and one accord" is NOT looking, thinking, and acting alike. It is being able to come together in function, to work together toward a common goal DESPITE ANY DIFFERENCES.

Read your posts on this. You're understanding of English is very different than mine. On-other-words your statement is double minded.

Blessings to you..

 

[listed]

Yes, I have devised this plan to come on here, under my own name with my own picture, to secretely troll through the threads with the sole mission of proving how wrong everyone else is and why correct I am.

Dude... I am a fallible fallible man. But, I know Jesus... and I trust in his work and if you do that makes us brothers. Most of the details beyond that are usually not as important as we think they are. Now if I were on here pushing a "works based" salvation, which I am not... works alone do not save... then you would really have a right to make these assumptions. Or, if I were leading people away from God, you would have a right to make these assumptions. But I am an open book... I am here under my own name and my own picture and you can Google me and read any of 100 articles, videos, interviews, whatever you want. And what you will likely come away with is that you don't agree with me in certain areas... but that my love of Jesus and my appreciation for the sacrifice he made on our behalf, over-rides any differences in SOME doctrinal conclusions.

No one pushing the covenant made at Sinai has the right to call me brother. Paul addresses this in Gal 5:12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you. Paul makes a similar statement in chapter 1.

 

[BABerean2]

If you believe there was no law until Mt. Sinai, then you would be, respectfully, wrong. I can show you a number of places where we see the law kept. One that comes to mind is Genesis 26:5. But I can share upwards to 20-30 places where we see commandments generally viewed as Sinai forward... being observed prior to Sinai. That doesn't negate what Paul wrote, it just means we have to adjust how we are viewing what Paul wrote.

The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant has been going on since Acts chapter 15, which was written almost 2,000 years ago. So far, you have made it clear that you are on the side of the Judaisers.

Exo 34:28　 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.　

The 10 commandments are the Sinai covenant. The 600+ other ordinances written down by Moses explained how to keep the Sinai covenant.

Deu 5:2　 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.　
Deu 5:3　 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.　

As confirmed by Paul in Galatians chapter 3 the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed could come to whom the promise was made.

Did Abraham follow the commandments he was given? Of course.

He went to the land God showed him.
He circumcised his male offspring.

Your efforts to show that the 10 commandments were put in place before Mount Sinai will not hold water.

Those here are not trying to hurt your feelings.
We are trying to get you out of the modern Hebrew Roots movement, into which you have become ensnared, by speaking the truth.

.

 

[Ken Rank]

34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

If you cannot see the difference then maybe you are not a savvy as I thought.

We are not saved by works of the old covenant. We are saved by our faith and His grace period.

3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish?



Trouble is I don't buy what you personally believe. Israel is no more. the system for their salvation is but history. Jesus is the tree and both Jew and Gentile after accepting Jesus as Savior are grafted into the tree the same way. The chance for Israel to enter in as a nation is past.




Well I be, I can get the real meaning for righteousness from the dictionary, but the Bible scholars used wrong words in translating words into meaningful English? I should trust your meaning for words over the Bible scholars who spend many years studying the Greek and Hebrew languages? Thanks, but I, for one, trust that God has had His hand in guiding those faithful men in their translation. The NIV is the works of many scholars and I believe they were unbiased. You, on the other hand are trying to fit your preconceived ideas with some drum up ideas.



Hmmm! So I guess the sacrificial system was really a scam. Man had to perform the rituals from Adam to Jesus for naught. It was and is not what God sees, it is what He commands. Blood is demanded for the remission of sins.


I am 81 years old, old enough to know your history of men taking the blame for women is pure bunk.

Jesus is the scapegoat that carries all our sins into the wilderness. As to carrying the blame, I have to think about that.



That is pure bunk. Anything that has to do with morality has been from the beginning and back even to Lucifer's sin. Morality is eternal. Ritual law like the Sabbath was proclaimed after the Israelites crossed the Red Sea. the Sabbath command has never been given to any other nation or people. It was very important to only Israel and is the only ritual command in the now defunct 10 commandments. Weighing the writings of Paul over your thoughts I have no reason to change from Paul to you. Paul wrote the following and it debunks your thoughts completely.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, (10 commandments) came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!


Sorry, but you have to be ignoring Paul and John. Torah was nailed to the Cross. Torah was the old covenant. Heb 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Heb7:12For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

Bob, I don't have time today to respond. We have a gathering tonight at congregation, much work to get done before then. I will just say this, "loving neighbor" is not a NT command... it is found in Leviticus the first time it appears. As for Israel being no more... please go to Jer. 31:31-34 and/or Heb. 8:8-11 and tell me who the new covenant is made with? Thanks, will catch up soon.

 

[Ken Rank]

Bob, I don't have time today to respond. We have a gathering tonight at congregation, much work to get done before then. I will just say this, "loving neighbor" is not a NT command... it is found in Leviticus the first time it appears. As for Israel being no more... please go to Jer. 31:31-34 and/or Heb. 8:8-11 and tell me who the new covenant is made with? And, if you don't mind... please read Deut. 30:1-6 and let me know if that says that after Israel's punishment they will return? And, lastly, read Hosea 1... all of it... and let me know if Israel, who gets called, Not my people," has an attached promise to be restored. Thanks, will catch up soon.

 

[Bob S]

Bob, I don't have time today to respond. We have a gathering tonight at congregation, much work to get done before then. I will just say this, "loving neighbor" is not a NT command... it is found in Leviticus the first time it appears. As for Israel being no more... please go to Jer. 31:31-34 and/or Heb. 8:8-11 and tell me who the new covenant is made with? And, if you don't mind... please read Deut. 30:1-6 and let me know if that says that after Israel's punishment they will return? And, lastly, read Hosea 1... all of it... and let me know if Israel, who gets called, Not my people," has an attached promise to be restored. Thanks, will catch up soon.

Wrong Ken. I didn't say loving neighbor was new. Jesus said and I quote "“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you," There is not one command in the old Testament that says "As I have loved you".

Do you have any idea how great a love Jesus has for us. Look at Calvary, the weight of all of the World's sins on Him. We are to love others and if necessary give our lives for others. That supersedes all other commands ever given anyplace in scripture. That is what John is referring to in 1Jn3:19-24. I know I have the truth, 1jn3:19, because I have accepted Jesus and willing to keep His commands 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

Do you see anything there that would indicate that Christians are to observe the ritual given only to Israel? I don't either, but I do know I am doing His will by abiding by John's words there in 1Jn3. If Sabbath observance is so very important as the Torah observers state, why didn't John, guided by the Holy Spirit, tell us there where he would have had a perfect opportunity? That is one true reason to believe Paul were he told us that the old covenant keeping of days is a shadow and that Jesus is now reality.

The new covenant was made with Israel. Israel is the one who didn't keep the covenant given to them in the first place. Because Israel didn't keep their first covenant Jesus came to redeem Israelites and offer the same covenant Jesus is now offering to each individual Jew and Gentile. Israel will not ever again be saved as a nation. That is a misnomer. We all come to Christ in the same manner. Jesus, by telling the disciples, Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation........, Gentiles can now claim the same promises as Jews. In Christ we are neither Jew or Greek, we are all one in Christ. Amen!

 

[SAAN]

You might be able to get away with this, if it were not for Colossians 2:16-17...

Col 2:16　 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:　
Col 2:17　 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


shadow = weak and beggarly

How would you describe yourself when compared to the Judaisers?

.

If you cherry pick, you can make scriptures mean whatever you want them to. Read from verse 1 all the down to 16-17 and it makes more sense in context.

Colossians 2:8
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.


Is any command of God empty deceit, traditions of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ?

Paul is speaking to the new Gentile converts to the faith that were once Pagans. He is telling them to not let anyone judge them for actually keeping the commands of God. Shadow of to come is Christ, who still hasn't came back yet.

 

[Bob S]

If you cherry pick, you can make scriptures mean whatever you want them to. Read from verse 1 all the down to 16-17 and it makes more sense in context.

Colossians 2:8
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.


Is any command of God empty deceit, traditions of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ?

Paul is speaking to the new Gentile converts to the faith that were once Pagans. He is telling them to not let anyone judge them for actually keeping the commands of God. Shadow of to come is Christ, who still hasn't came back yet.

Come on Saan, you have a better grasp of the English language than to twist what Paul really wrote. Certainly Paul didn't teach them to observe ritual days given to Israel only. He is the one who wrote Gal chapter 3. 3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole. 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Paul here boldly is telling us that we are not under the laws of Sabbath, feast, new moons or even food laws. The are the shadows. You telling us that is is Jesus that is the shadow id ludicrous. Your assessment defies the English languish.

 

[pat34lee]

Hardly. I am quite certain that there was not a single black African, a single Eastern Asian, a single Native American, a single Maori, a single Micronesian, etc. among them. The ones among them were fellow Semites from Egypt who underwent ritual circumcision in order to enter the covenant made on Mount Sinai.

No, not a single, but many or most of the world's races were
represented in Egypt, as the center of trade, as they were later
in Rome and Greece. No Africans? Egypt is Africa. Middle East
is a modern invention.