How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

[ToBeLoved]

Hebrews 12:5-8
[5]And have you forgotten the encouraging words God spoke to you as his children? He said, “My child, don’t make light of the lord’s discipline, and don’t give up when he corrects you.
[6]For the lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.”
[7]As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Who ever heard of a child who is never disciplined by its father?
[8]If God doesn’t discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children at all.

Notice that not "all" are His children. Some are illegitimate.

God knows His chosen children and he lovingly disciplines us.

I think everyone following this thread can read what you posted.

Now how does this say that God hates those who are not His Children?

That is what you said and this is NOT proof of that statement.

Just because God disciplines His Own, does not mean He hates the others.

Try again.

 

[bling]

I am describing a Sovereign King who laughs at your accusations of Him.

Yes, we are exactly like those whom God has not redeemed. Ephesians 2:1 - We were dead. Yep, just like the non redeemed.

Ephesians 2:4-5 - But God...made us alive.

Yep, God chose from a pile of filthy rags who are all equally deserving of being burned up. His choice is His to make and our complaints regarding His choice are ignored by the Sovereign King.

Perhaps you are clueless as to what Sovereign King means. It means, the King is above the law and can do anything He wants to any subject. He has no obligation to act as you wish him to act. You can either hate Him for having that authority or you can bow in His presence. What say you about the King of Kings?

The Sovereign King has told us: “He does not lie”, so He has obligated Himself to be truthful and not mislead us. God has shown with Christ and the prophets in word and deed what “just and unjust” are and said “He is just”. We are called upon to be this same “just” type being here on earth, which fits most earthly definitions of “just”. Show me in scripture where God gives us a unique definition of just?

God is treating every mature adult “equally” and not arbitrarily in the one area that matters and that is with salvation.

Your description of God’s selection shows God to be arbitrary.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Are all those that come to the banquet adopted by God?

Some were asked to go to the banquet but refused so they were not adopted?

The issue is not with all mature adults being like filthy rags to begin with, but with God who has the Love and power to make all sinners, guests at the banquet chooses arbitrarily (by your explanation) to make only some guests of the banquet?

We are all homeless street people, who, for really selfish reasons, accepted the invitation to the banquet, so how can we “boast” about accepting charity (it would be harder to turn it down when you’re hungry.)?

What looks like humbleness is very often not humble at all.

The heart is wicked above all things, who can know it?

 

[ToBeLoved]

What looks like humbleness is very often not humble at all.

The heart is wicked above all things, who can know it?

How man can convince themselves that God loves them and hates the others is a clear illustration of some serious delusionary thinking.

But... then again ...

The heart is wicked above all things, who can know it?

 

[toLiJC]

Is the grace of God irresistible as the "I" in TULIP proclaims?

What enables some men to receive the grace of God unto salvation?

OTOH, what prevents some men from receiving God's grace?

the spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness is the main reason for why some people can't have the grace of the true Lord God, because the unrighteous/lawless/wicked worshipers turn His grace into a means of achieving selfish purposes to the detriment of others, and ultimately into an abomination of desolation standing in the holy place that can unfavorably affect a whole world(humankind) - such worshipers surely have no His grace

Blessings

 

[MennoSota]

I think everyone following this thread can read what you posted.

Now how does this say that God hates those who are not His Children?

That is what you said and this is NOT proof of that statement.

Just because God disciplines His Own, does not mean He hates the others.

Try again.

You are getting extremely picky in order to not believe that God chose you rather than you being king and proudly choosing God.

God has nothing to do with illegitimate children who are not a part of His family.

On top of this, the Bible repeatedly shares how God hates the wicked, of which we once were.

So, God chose to redeem those whom he hates? Why?
Because God loves His son who is the propitiation for those who are chosen.

It is no longer I who loves, but Christ lives within me... (Galatians 2:20)

We have nothing to boast about. We are the hated rebels whom God adopted by choice, through Yeshua's atonement.

God does not do this for illegitimate children.

 

[MennoSota]

The Sovereign King has told us: “He does not lie”, so He has obligated Himself to be truthful and not mislead us. God has shown with Christ and the prophets in word and deed what “just and unjust” are and said “He is just”. We are called upon to be this same “just” type being here on earth, which fits most earthly definitions of “just”. Show me in scripture where God gives us a unique definition of just?

God is treating every mature adult “equally” and not arbitrarily in the one area that matters and that is with salvation.

Your description of God’s selection shows God to be arbitrary.

You imagine God to be arbitrary because you are forcing your rules on God.
It is YOU who demands to be on the throne and in control. YOU want a passive God who grants your wishes. When you choose Him for salvation, you want to thank Him for doing you bidding as though he were your own dog to command.
Your version of God is weak and subservient to your will. I can have no part in such a weak God as what you claim to believe in.
No, God is the absolute, Sovereign King and He does what He wills for His own reasons and He does not have to answer to me for any reason. I will trust Him wholeheartedly and know that His choices are good and right despite the mystery of His will.

Will you trust God or will you continue to demand of God?

 

[bottomofsandal]

Why don't you see that God loves all of His creation.

God hates sin. Of course, but not the sinner.

Your changing the subject. You need to Biblically account for your words, scripture reference?

What you are saying makes sense, but it is not Biblical.

God hates workers of iniquity, not simply the sin.

Hate the sin, love the sinner is postmodern TBN fluff.

 

[bottomofsandal]

What looks like humbleness is very often not humble at all.

The heart is wicked above all things, who can know it?

How man can convince themselves that God loves them and hates the others is a clear illustration of some serious delusionary thinking.

But... then again ...

The heart is wicked above all things, who can know it?

So, God will love those poor souls in hell for all eternity?

Isn't this version of God more sadistic and UN-godlike than allegations against Calvinism?

When you tell these condemned souls in hell that God loves them...how will they respond?

 

[bottomofsandal]

You imagine God to be arbitrary because you are forcing your rules on God.
It is YOU who demands to be on the throne and in control. YOU want a passive God who grants your wishes. When you choose Him for salvation, you want to thank Him for doing you bidding as though he were your own dog to command.
Your version of God is weak and subservient to your will. I can have no part in such a weak God as what you claim to believe in.
No, God is the absolute, Sovereign King and He does what He wills for His own reasons and He does not have to answer to me for any reason. I will trust Him wholeheartedly and know that His choices are good and right despite the mystery of His will.

Will you trust God or will you continue to demand of God?

One need not be a Calvinist to believe what you have stated.


The clay keeps telling The Potter that He is wrong?
Or the clay keeps attempting to make God in it's own image?

God must be fair, just, and loving according to the whims of the clay. God must love at least as much as the clay because He created the clay in His image, and the clay loves everyone equally. Likewise God must be fair. Everyone needs to receive an equal opportunity, a real chance, a fair shake, or God is not who He claims to be. And even though God is The Judge of all the earth, and will do right, God needs to be questioned about His motives and held accountable in His courtroom because He might deviate from true justice.


Who are you o man to talk back to God?

 

[sdowney717]

What looks like humbleness is very often not humble at all.

The heart is wicked above all things, who can know it?

How man can convince themselves that God loves them and hates the others is a clear illustration of some serious delusionary thinking.

But... then again ...

The heart is wicked above all things, who can know it?

So calvinists have wicked hearts?
Interesting that the new creation in Christ, you believe have wicked hearts.
Is it not true that if they are in Christ then they must not have wicked hearts anymore?
That goes against what God says about Him giving us the new heart that knows God.

 

[bottomofsandal]

The Sovereign King has told us: “He does not lie”, so He has obligated Himself to be truthful and not mislead us. God has shown with Christ and the prophets in word and deed what “just and unjust” are and said “He is just”. We are called upon to be this same “just” type being here on earth, which fits most earthly definitions of “just”. Show me in scripture where God gives us a unique definition of just?

God is treating every mature adult “equally” and not arbitrarily in the one area that matters and that is with salvation.

Your description of God’s selection shows God to be arbitrary.

But can you show us where God says all men are treated identically, equally, and in the same exact fashion?

No, you cannot. So, why continue this fruitless endeavor to re-create God in a manner that is more palatable?


God is just. Everyone ever born of man deserves eternal condemnation. God is not obligated to save 1 person.

God's mercy is dispensed according to His pleasure. Mercy is dispensed as God chooses, not as you or I approve.


It sounds like you have convinced yourself God must be at least as fair, just, and loving as you perceive man.

The standard is God, not man's feelings or thoughts. Whatever God does or doesn't do defines that particular attribute.

IOW, God's actions exemplify His Divine attributes. However God loves IS love. However God administers justice IS just.


Our standards of justice and love should originate with God, not our personal interpretations.

We cannot superimpose our personality characteristics over God's attributes because we feel a certain way.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You are getting extremely picky in order to not believe that God chose you rather than you being king and proudly choosing God.

Is reading and not reading into the Word of God being picky?

You call me unhumble, but in truth I don't need to know why I am saved, but just that I am. You however seem to be taking a lot of pride in your idea of yourself being chosen. So, I would ask, who is not humble here? The one who is only grateful that they are where they are? OR the person who is so proud of how they got there that they cherry pick God's Word to make themselves feel special?

I love roses. They are so gorgeous. And when I get roses, they are cleaned up, all the thorns removed. One would almost not think that roses have thorns at all.

Until one see's a thorny rose. Then one remembers that roses have thorns and thorns hurt.

Reality is what it is friend.

 

[ToBeLoved]

But can you show us where God says all men are treated identically, equally, and in the same exact fashion?

No, you cannot. So, why continue this fruitless endeavor to re-create God in a manner that is more palatable?


God is just. Everyone ever born of man deserves eternal condemnation. God is not obligated to save 1 person.

God's mercy is dispensed according to His pleasure. Mercy is dispensed as God chooses, not as you or I approve.


It sounds like you have convinced yourself God must be at least as fair, just, and loving as you perceive man.

The standard is God, not man's feelings or thoughts. Whatever God does or doesn't do defines that particular attribute.

IOW, God's actions exemplify His Divine attributes. However God loves IS love. However God administers justice IS just.


Our standards of justice and love should originate with God, not our personal interpretations.

We cannot superimpose our personality characteristics over God's attributes because we feel a certain way.

Please support with scripture.

Not that I don't trust your opinion of course.

 

[ToBeLoved]

So calvinists have wicked hearts?
Interesting that the new creation in Christ, you believe have wicked hearts.
Is it not true that if they are in Christ then they must not have wicked hearts anymore?
That goes against what God says about Him giving us the new heart that knows God.

Not really.

God writes His Word on our hearts and gives us a new heart, correct.

But does sin cease to exist in us then? Is not what we wrestle with our flesh?

So, yes our hearts can still be very wicked.

Please give me scripture that says our hearts are not still wicked after salvation.

 

[MennoSota]

Is reading and not reading into the Word of God being picky?

You call me unhumble, but in truth I don't need to know why I am saved, but just that I am. You however seem to be taking a lot of pride in your idea of yourself being chosen. So, I would ask, who is not humble here? The one who is only grateful that they are where they are? OR the person who is so proud of how they got there that they cherry pick God's Word to make themselves feel special?

I love roses. They are so gorgeous. And when I get roses, they are cleaned up, all the thorns removed. One would almost not think that roses have thorns at all.

Until one see's a thorny rose. Then one remembers that roses have thorns and thorns hurt.

Reality is what it is friend.

It's not my idea. It's God's word.

Keep ignoring Ephesians 1 and 2 as well as Romans 9. I cannot help you if you wish to ignore what is in front of your face.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It's not my idea. It's God's word.

Keep ignoring Ephesians 1 and 2 as well as Romans 9. I cannot help you if you wish to ignore what is in front of your face.

You know, I would like to move on to more topics, but you still haven't shown using scripture that God hates those who are not His Children.

We need to resolve this issue before we can move on. We need a foundation. You say God hates human beings that are not saved, I know this is not true.

Please support your claim.

 

[bottomofsandal]

Please support with scripture.

Not that I don't trust your opinion of course.

God loves different people differently.

---doesn't God love Jesus more than us?
---doesn't God love the devil less than us?


This will excite the kitty kat:
---God loves those who obey Him (John 14:23)
---so, does God love those who do not obey the same as those who do obey?


John 14:23
New King James Version (NKJV)
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.



I did my part friend...now can you show where all men are loved the same by God whether sinner or saint?

 

[bottomofsandal]

You know, I would like to move on to more topics, but you still haven't shown using scripture that God hates those who are not His Children.

We need to resolve this issue before we can move on. We need a foundation. You say God hates human beings that are not saved, I know this is not true.

Please support your claim.

Please allow me to post a few verses I believe to be in play here.
Please understand I am not taking sides, just have a notion about some verses.


Psalm 5:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity.


Psalm 11:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 The Lord tests the righteous,
But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Please allow me to post a few verses I believe to be in play here.
Please understand I am not taking sides, just have a notion about some verses.


Psalm 5:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity.


Psalm 11:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 The Lord tests the righteous,
But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.

I'm still waiting for @MennoSota to provide scripture.

You are more than welcome to join in the conversation but you should explain your position if you'd like to join and the verses that support it.