Is following the 10 commandments required for salvation?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The command against coveting is against desiring what your neighbor has in your heart. Jesus wasn't saying anything brand new when he spoke against having lustful thoughts about your neighbor's wife, but was just teaching the correct application of the 7th and 10th Commandments.

Good.
Do we have a heart like KING DAVID'S ? A HEART AFTER YHWH? INTENT ON YHWH and DEVOTED TO HIM in Y'SHUA?

OR a heart full of coveting and other defiling things ?

YHWH has cleansed us [Christians] and granted us [Christians] a new heart
that had nothing defiled in it.
But that is still not the point.

Before KING DAVID, was coveting legal ? Was it okay to do ?
After KING DAVID, was coveting legal ? Was it okay to do ?
Has that changed ?

 

[Major1]

I don't know at all if we are friends or not.

Good example DAVID. He broke a commandment, then he stopped sinning and did not break that commandment again.

He was not punished for breaking that commandment in his heart -
in his heart he was a MAN AFTER YHWH'S OWN HEART.

He was punished for breaking TORAH as other people were or could be .

If you are sinning willfully , do you think YHWH will change HIS WORD for you ?

Really??? I am friends with everyone who wants to be friendly.

His thoughts led him to lie, steal, adultery, murder and yes he was punished by God in the death of his child from Bathsheba.

YES, we are judged and punished for sins of the heart.

Sin comes from within man, it can be a reaction from what is outside a person or just what a person is thinking. John tells us we have an enemy on three fronts the world (which is fallen and under sin and the devils control) the flesh (which carries the sin nature) the devil (a personal angel that is sinful and influences mankind to love sin). Sin has its roots in the heart that influences the intellect and will and ultimately finds its expression through the body when we follow though with the desire (Prov.4:3; Mt.15:19-20; Lk.6:45; Heb.3:12 ; Jm1:14-15. The sin nature is the basis for sinful habits, it is not a single act but a process that begins in our heart. You can say the real source of mans problem is heart disease, our fallen human nature.

David explained that his conception had sin involved. Ps 51:5: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.” We as David have a sin nature when we are born, it is not something we learn afterwards. Our actions only express what our nature is. The sin nature is the basis for all sinful habits. Without understanding the source of sin one cannot understand nor give the solution correctly. The Law is not the answer, it points to the problem, it is diagnostic but it is not the cure

Romans 5:12........
“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned”

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Really??? I am friends with everyone who wants to be friendly.

Do you want terrorists who willfully break the law moving next door to you?

Do you want thieves who will take anything you have without any remorse next door?

Or do you want people who will not steal as your neighbors ?
People who will not blow you up ?

 

[Major1]

Do you want terrorists who willfully break the law moving next door to you?

Do you want thieves who will take anything you have without any remorse next door?

Or do you want people who will not steal as your neighbors ?
People who will not blow you up ?

That has nothing to do with our conversation my friend.

Who in the world would want those kinds of people around them?????

Do you not understand that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's and you name them, will all steal, lie, cheat and kill you.
The thought that someone is great and good and would never sin because they say they keep the law or obey the commandments or the Torah is silly.

People, are sinners and sinners sin no matter what they say they are.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

That has nothing to do with our conversation my friend.

Who in the world would want those kinds of people around them?????

Do you not understand that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's and you name them, will all steal, lie, cheat and kill you.
The thought that someone is great and good and would never sin because they say they keep the law or obey the commandments or the Torah is silly.

People, are sinners and sinners sin no matter what they say they are.

Well, we're talking about Christians aren't we? And a study of the scriptures tells you that a Christian does not make a habit of sinning. Because if they do the truth of Christ is not in them. Meaning they are not actually Christian.

 

[Blade]

The 10 commandments. I .. I think it just didnt stop there. There were 613 laws they had to keep. If one keeps the law you do all or none. You fail in one you fail in all. A man came to Jesus with the law and with the law He answered Him. Now for myself I love the lord my God with all my heart and soul I love the people around me so for so on. In this I do and have keep all the laws of the prophets. It was not done away with.. just .. well where you could think and lust after someone Jesus raised it to ..if you just think it you did it. So its not gone in the way man sees something.

Now is follow the 10 commandments have to be done to be saved? This is not written. Jesus said God sent His only son and who ever believes in Him shall not die but have ever lasting life. God didnt send His son to condemn this world but to save it. What did the 12 say about this when talking about the other nations aka us? A Jewish person today will say..for ME is ok to believe in Jesus but not them. Though this is not true yet the 12 new this. What was expected by them they can not put on those that never lived this way.

So GOD is very smart.. yeah. really hehe. So He can say something and MEAN the same thing. So if I love Him with all my heart and soul and love my neighbor as my self so forth so on. I dont want to lie. I dont want to steal I dont want what my friends have again so for so on. But man this has been going on for hundreds of years. And it comes down to YOU and GOD. Jesus is so real. Ask HIM ..talk to Him. KNOW He hears you KNOW He will answer you and He will make sure to show you WHERE its written so you know its of Him.. my thoughts on this

 

[Jim Langston]

The 10 commandments. I .. I think it just didnt stop there. There were 613 laws they had to keep. If one keeps the law you do all or none. You fail in one you fail in all. A man came to Jesus with the law and with the law He answered Him. Now for myself I love the lord my God with all my heart and soul I love the people around me so for so on. In this I do and have keep all the laws of the prophets. It was not done away with.. just .. well where you could think and lust after someone Jesus raised it to ..if you just think it you did it. So its not gone in the way man sees something.

Now is follow the 10 commandments have to be done to be saved? This is not written. Jesus said God sent His only son and who ever believes in Him shall not die but have ever lasting life. God didnt send His son to condemn this world but to save it. What did the 12 say about this when talking about the other nations aka us? A Jewish person today will say..for ME is ok to believe in Jesus but not them. Though this is not true yet the 12 new this. What was expected by them they can not put on those that never lived this way.

So GOD is very smart.. yeah. really hehe. So He can say something and MEAN the same thing. So if I love Him with all my heart and soul and love my neighbor as my self so forth so on. I dont want to lie. I dont want to steal I dont want what my friends have again so for so on. But man this has been going on for hundreds of years. And it comes down to YOU and GOD. Jesus is so real. Ask HIM ..talk to Him. KNOW He hears you KNOW He will answer you and He will make sure to show you WHERE its written so you know its of Him.. my thoughts on this

You say it was not written that one had to follow the ten commandments to be saved. So lets just go qith one. The man asked what I must do to go to heaven, jesus answered, in part, do not kill. But you are saying that he did not have to not kill to be saved. How is that not a direct contradiction of what Jesus said? (At least applying to the commandment do not kill). Jesus said to get to heaven you must not kill, you seem to be saying killing or not doesn't matter.

This also applies to the other commandments Jesus quoted, do not steal, do not lie, etc...

You claim this man came asking Jesus from the law, I do not see that in scripture. He asked a very simple question, one we would word what must I do to be saved? No matter your theology the point remains, Jesus said do not kill. If your theology throws that away it is not sound.

 

[Major1]

Well, we're talking about Christians aren't we? And a study of the scriptures tells you that a Christian does not make a habit of sinning. Because if they do the truth of Christ is not in them. Meaning they are not actually Christian.

The Scriptures tells us in Romans 3:23 that..."ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

Christians do sin!!!

Because a Christian commits a sin, it does not mean that they are not saved!!!

I suggest a through reading of Romans 7. Paul, an apostle describes his struggle with sin and he was our apostle, a saved man. If he had all of those problems with sin, how then would we not have them as well????

The difference between a sinning unbeliever and a sinning believer is that one loves his sin while the other hates it. The believer who stumbles in his walk with the Lord regrets it, confesses it, wishes to never do it again and seeks to appropriate God’s power and grace to avoid it. He doesn’t consider how much he can sin and still be considered a Christian. Rather, he considers how he can avoid even the appearance of sin in the future.

 

[Major1]

You say it was not written that one had to follow the ten commandments to be saved. So lets just go qith one. The man asked what I must do to go to heaven, jesus answered, in part, do not kill. But you are saying that he did not have to not kill to be saved. How is that not a direct contradiction of what Jesus said? (At least applying to the commandment do not kill). Jesus said to get to heaven you must not kill, you seem to be saying killing or not doesn't matter.

This also applies to the other commandments Jesus quoted, do not steal, do not lie, etc...

You claim this man came asking Jesus from the law, I do not see that in scripture. He asked a very simple question, one we would word what must I do to be saved? No matter your theology the point remains, Jesus said do not kill. If your theology throws that away it is not sound.

In Acts 15 James suggested four rules........
“Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (v. 20). Instead of making things difficult for the gentiles, these four rules would be enough.

Believers should not lie, steal and murder. That was as obvious to them as it is to us, so they did not need a special reminder about it. The decree makes it clear that gentiles do not have to be circumcised, nor do they have to obey the laws of Moses. They are circumcised spiritually, not physically. God never gave those commands to the gentiles.

James was not encouraging gentile Christians to attend the synagogues. He was not saying they should listen to the laws of Moses. However, because those laws were commonly preached, the apostles should tell the gentiles four rules. Then they would not think that Christianity is more difficult than it is.

To summarize: Some men said that gentiles should be circumcised and obey the laws of Moses or else they could not be saved. Not so, said the apostles. Gentiles are saved by grace and faith. God is pleased to dwell in people who aren’t circumcised and who don’t keep the rituals. But since Moses is widely preached, we need to give a decree that clearly distinguishes the Christian faith from the Law of Moses.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Luke 5:31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” It would be a bit of a quandary when Jesus said he came to call sinners to repentance, if those called and who did repent were to remain sinners after.




Are Christians Sinners or Saints?


There are 28 uses of the word “sinners” and 13 of the word “sinner” in the New Testament Scripture. None refer to people who have come to a saving faith in the Lord Jesus. Let’s look at some examples.

Jesus revealed that a purpose of his coming was to save sinners:

“It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mark 2:17. See also Luke 15:7,10 and Matthew 9:12-13).

The term “sinners” is used twelve times in passages relating to Jesus having dinner with Matthew and Levi:

While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and “sinners” came and ate with him and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?

On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:10-13).

15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and “sinners” were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the “sinners” and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?”

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Mark 2:15-17. See also Luke 7:34, 19:7).

Jesus was criticized for associating with Matthew, Levi, and other sinners:

” The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners”’” (Matthew 11:19. See Luke 5:30-32; 7:39; and 15:1-2).

Matthew and Mark describe the betrayal of Jesus into the hands of the unbelieving Jews, whom he called “sinners”:

Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners (Matthew 26:45. See also Mark 14:41).

Jesus reviewed the actions of “sinners:”

“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ lend to ‘sinners,’ expecting to be repaid in full” (Luke 6:32-34).

Jesus taught about cause and effect using the word “sinners:”

Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? (Luke 13:2).

The story of the man born blind used the word “sinners” once and “sinner” twice.

A second time they [the Pharisees] summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,” they said. “We know this man [Jesus] is a sinner.” (See also John 9:16).

He [the formerly blind man] replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!” (John 9:24-25) “We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will” (John 9:31).......{continues}

 

[Jim Langston]

In Acts 15 James suggested four rules........
“Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (v. 20). Instead of making things difficult for the gentiles, these four rules would be enough.

Believers should not lie, steal and murder. That was as obvious to them as it is to us, so they did not need a special reminder about it. The decree makes it clear that gentiles do not have to be circumcised, nor do they have to obey the laws of Moses. They are circumcised spiritually, not physically. God never gave those commands to the gentiles.

James was not encouraging gentile Christians to attend the synagogues. He was not saying they should listen to the laws of Moses. However, because those laws were commonly preached, the apostles should tell the gentiles four rules. Then they would not think that Christianity is more difficult than it is.

To summarize: Some men said that gentiles should be circumcised and obey the laws of Moses or else they could not be saved. Not so, said the apostles. Gentiles are saved by grace and faith. God is pleased to dwell in people who aren’t circumcised and who don’t keep the rituals. But since Moses is widely preached, we need to give a decree that clearly distinguishes the Christian faith from the Law of Moses.

This is all well and good. Jesus said do not steal. Jesus said do not kill. Jesus said do not lie. Jesus said do not sleep with your neighbors wife. That is what I am asking about. The commandments Jesus quoted and the commandments in the 10 commandments that God gave. Not about circumcision. Not about the Mosaic law, I.E. sacrificing animals, etc..

This is what I am asking about:

Believers should not lie, steal and murder. That was as obvious to them as it is to us, so they did not need a special reminder about it.

So it would seem you agree that a saved person is required not to lie, steal and murder, which is question of this thread. Unless you do not believe that one has to follow the commandments given by Jesus to be saved. If your argument is that it is not following the commandments that saves us I would agree with you. The question is, is a saved person required to try to follow the ten commandments, or whatever part of the ten commandments you believe we are required to follow (Jesus never mentioned keeping the Sabbath day holy since, I believe, that is a work).

 

[Major1]

This is all well and good. Jesus said do not steal. Jesus said do not kill. Jesus said do not lie. Jesus said do not sleep with your neighbors wife. That is what I am asking about. The commandments Jesus quoted and the commandments in the 10 commandments that God gave. Not about circumcision. Not about the Mosaic law, I.E. sacrificing animals, etc..

This is what I am asking about:



So it would seem you agree that a saved person is required not to lie, steal and murder, which is question of this thread. Unless you do not believe that one has to follow the commandments given by Jesus to be saved. If your argument is that it is not following the commandments that saves us I would agree with you. The question is, is a saved person required to try to follow the ten commandments, or whatever part of the ten commandments you believe we are required to follow (Jesus never mentioned keeping the Sabbath day holy since, I believe, that is a work).

NO my dear brother. We as Christians are not required to keep any commandments.
Some Christians believe that they should keep old covenant observances such as the weekly and annual Sabbaths. A person is a "true Christian" only if he or she observes Sabbaths and certain other old covenant requirements. But the truth is that these old worship regulations are not required today, and it is legalistic to teach that people must obey those rules in order to be accounted worthy of salvation.

Scripture tells us that salvation is a free gift of God that comes solely through the redemptive work of Christ. The way to obtain salvation is to have Christ in one’s life, period (Romans 9:9-11), rather than having Christ plus keeping certain old covenant laws. This has led some to ask: Since there are no legal "requirements" for salvation, and our status with God is based solely on his saving grace through the redemptive work of Christ, are we "required" to keep any laws of God?

NO!!!

We did not do any works to be saved and we do not do any works to stay saved. We do however have a desire to do good works because we are saved. Works is a product of salvation and not a requirement of salvation.

Nowhere in Paul’s letters does he mention Jewish customs such as the Sabbath rests, food laws, circumcision, offering sacrifices, strict percentage tithing, and so on, as obligatory Christian behaviors.

 

[Major1]

Luke 5:31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” It would be a bit of a quandary when Jesus said he came to call sinners to repentance, if those called and who did repent were to remain sinners after.




Are Christians Sinners or Saints?


There are 28 uses of the word “sinners” and 13 of the word “sinner” in the New Testament Scripture. None refer to people who have come to a saving faith in the Lord Jesus. Let’s look at some examples.

Jesus revealed that a purpose of his coming was to save sinners:

“It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mark 2:17. See also Luke 15:7,10 and Matthew 9:12-13).

The term “sinners” is used twelve times in passages relating to Jesus having dinner with Matthew and Levi:

While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and “sinners” came and ate with him and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?

On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:10-13).

15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and “sinners” were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the “sinners” and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?”

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Mark 2:15-17. See also Luke 7:34, 19:7).

Jesus was criticized for associating with Matthew, Levi, and other sinners:

” The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners”’” (Matthew 11:19. See Luke 5:30-32; 7:39; and 15:1-2).

Matthew and Mark describe the betrayal of Jesus into the hands of the unbelieving Jews, whom he called “sinners”:

Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners (Matthew 26:45. See also Mark 14:41).

Jesus reviewed the actions of “sinners:”

“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ lend to ‘sinners,’ expecting to be repaid in full” (Luke 6:32-34).

Jesus taught about cause and effect using the word “sinners:”

Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? (Luke 13:2).

The story of the man born blind used the word “sinners” once and “sinner” twice.

A second time they [the Pharisees] summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,” they said. “We know this man [Jesus] is a sinner.” (See also John 9:16).

He [the formerly blind man] replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!” (John 9:24-25) “We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will” (John 9:31).......{continues}

My dear sister, Christians are both sinners and saints. All human beings are sinners because we are all born in sin.

There is nothing wrong with admitting we are sinners. If we say we are not sinners, then we are lying.

1 John 1:8 .....
"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

We are Christians who fail. We are Christians who still sin. We are Christians who trust in the Lord Jesus Christ but are not perfect. We are Christians who love the Lord God even with our struggles. In each and every admission, we are declaring our insufficiency and our need for Christ. This brings glory to God and reminds us not only of our frailty and failures but also of our dependence and trust in Christ.

 

[Jim Langston]

NO my dear brother. We as Christians are not required to keep any commandments.
Some Christians believe that they should keep old covenant observances such as the weekly and annual Sabbaths. A person is a "true Christian" only if he or she observes Sabbaths and certain other old covenant requirements. But the truth is that these old worship regulations are not required today, and it is legalistic to teach that people must obey those rules in order to be accounted worthy of salvation.

Scripture tells us that salvation is a free gift of God that comes solely through the redemptive work of Christ. The way to obtain salvation is to have Christ in one’s life, period (Romans 9:9-11), rather than having Christ plus keeping certain old covenant laws. This has led some to ask: Since there are no legal "requirements" for salvation, and our status with God is based solely on his saving grace through the redemptive work of Christ, are we "required" to keep any laws of God?

NO!!!

We did not do any works to be saved and we do not do any works to stay saved. We do however have a desire to do good works because we are saved. Works is a product of salvation and not a requirement of salvation.

Nowhere in Paul’s letters does he mention Jewish customs such as the Sabbath rests, food laws, circumcision, offering sacrifices, strict percentage tithing, and so on, as obligatory Christian behaviors.

So, again, what did Jesus mean when the man asked Jesus "what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said unto him, "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother."

You are saying to inherit eternal life we don't have not commit adultery, we don't have to not kill, we don't have to not steal, we don't have to not bear false witness, we don't have to honor our mothers and our fathers. Yet here is Jesus saying we do.

Jesus: Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Major1: We as Christians are not required to keep any commandments.

Do you honestly not see a conflict here?

 

[Soyeong]

In Acts 15 James suggested four rules........
“Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (v. 20). Instead of making things difficult for the gentiles, these four rules would be enough.

Believers should not lie, steal and murder. That was as obvious to them as it is to us, so they did not need a special reminder about it. The decree makes it clear that gentiles do not have to be circumcised, nor do they have to obey the laws of Moses. They are circumcised spiritually, not physically. God never gave those commands to the gentiles.

James was not encouraging gentile Christians to attend the synagogues. He was not saying they should listen to the laws of Moses. However, because those laws were commonly preached, the apostles should tell the gentiles four rules. Then they would not think that Christianity is more difficult than it is.

To summarize: Some men said that gentiles should be circumcised and obey the laws of Moses or else they could not be saved. Not so, said the apostles. Gentiles are saved by grace and faith. God is pleased to dwell in people who aren’t circumcised and who don’t keep the rituals. But since Moses is widely preached, we need to give a decree that clearly distinguishes the Christian faith from the Law of Moses.

When an employer hires a new employee, they don't want to make it too difficult for them by teaching them everything that they will ever need to know about how to do their job up front, but rather they start with just the basics with the understanding that they will continue to learn how to do the rest on the job. In that same line of thought, they didn't want to make things too difficult for new believers coming to faith by making them memorize all the commands in the Torah up front, but rather they started with the basics that would allow them to have table fellowship with other believers, which they excused by saying that they would continue to learn the rest on the job by hearing Moses preached every Sabbath in the synagogues, which implies that they were already keeping the Sabbath according to God's commands.

There are 1,050 commands in the NT and I think it would be difficult to argue that Gentiles are only required to obey four of them, especially because that would exclude the commands of Jesus, but even then most don't argue that they need to obey those four commands in order to be saved. The four commands are either exhaustive or they are not, and the fact that you immediately said that other commands are obviously included shows that it was never intended to be an exhaustive list, but once you open that door then as followers of God, all of His commands are obviously included.

The issue raised in Acts 15:1 was not whether Gentiles are required to obey God's law, but whether Gentiles are required to obey God's law according to the customs of Moses in order to become saved. Nowhere does God's law require all Gentiles everywhere to become circumcised and nowhere does it require anyone to become circumcised or obey any of God's other commands in order to become saved, but rather that requirement is only found in the customs of Moses. We should be careful not to take something that was against obeying the customs or traditions of man as being against anyone obeying the commands of God. According to Romans 2:26, the way that we can see that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law.

God's law is God's word and Christ is God's word made flesh, so if Gentiles have never need to follow God's law, then they have never needed to follow Christ. Christ gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness (Titus 2:14) so if Gentiles have never been required to obey God's law, then they have never needed Christ to come and die to pay the penalty of their lawlessness in the first place. Rather, Jesus set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to God's law and we are told to follow his example ( 1 Peter 2:21-22) and to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:3-6). The OT rituals are essentially God's instructions for how to have a holy conduct and we are told to have a holy conduct because God is holy (1 Peter 1:14-16), which is a reference to Leviticus where God was giving those instructions. According to Deuteronomy 10:13, God said His commands were given for our own good, and if you believe what God said and trust it to be true, then demonstrating that to be the case through obedience to His commands is the way to live faith.

 

[Soyeong]

NO my dear brother. We as Christians are not required to keep any commandments.
Some Christians believe that they should keep old covenant observances such as the weekly and annual Sabbaths. A person is a "true Christian" only if he or she observes Sabbaths and certain other old covenant requirements. But the truth is that these old worship regulations are not required today, and it is legalistic to teach that people must obey those rules in order to be accounted worthy of salvation.

Scripture tells us that salvation is a free gift of God that comes solely through the redemptive work of Christ. The way to obtain salvation is to have Christ in one’s life, period (Romans 9:9-11), rather than having Christ plus keeping certain old covenant laws. This has led some to ask: Since there are no legal "requirements" for salvation, and our status with God is based solely on his saving grace through the redemptive work of Christ, are we "required" to keep any laws of God?

NO!!!

We did not do any works to be saved and we do not do any works to stay saved. We do however have a desire to do good works because we are saved. Works is a product of salvation and not a requirement of salvation.

Nowhere in Paul’s letters does he mention Jewish customs such as the Sabbath rests, food laws, circumcision, offering sacrifices, strict percentage tithing, and so on, as obligatory Christian behaviors.

There is a world of difference between saying that we are not required to obey God's commands and saying that we are not required to obey God's commands in order to become saved. God's law was never given as instructions for what we need to obey in order to become saved and it does not follow that because we shouldn't obey God's commands for a purpose for which they were never given that therefore we shouldn't obey God's commands for the purposes for which they were given.

According to Romans 7:7 the law was given to reveal sin and we wouldn't even know what sin was if God hadn't revealed it in His law, and Paul has made it very clear that being under grace doesn't mean we are permitted to do what God has revealed to be sin (Romans 6:15).

 

[Ken Rank]

We read in Hebrews:

"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." -Heb. 8:13 (KJV)

Has anybody ever stopped to consider that God said:

"And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone." -Deut. 4:13 (KJV)

Moses recorded that the Decalogue and the covenants were one.

Hebrews tells us that are under a new covenant, established on better promises. (cf. Heb. 8:6)

Decide for yourself-life under the new covenant, or the old.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I am leery addressing this because it is such an emotional topic for many. If for some reason we can't have a reasonable discussion, I will just back out.

There are two words in Greek that are translated as new. The first is nehos, the second is kainos. The word nehos means "new in regards to age," so nehos would be something that is brand new. The word kainos means "new in regards to freshness," so this word leans toward the idea of being "renewed." In "every" case but once, if you see the words, "new covenant," it is kainos not nehos. So the Greek is suggesting a renewed covenant, not a new one.

We need a second witness... and we have one. Hebrews 8:8-11 is quoted directly from Jer. 31:31-34 and it is there that we read of a "new covenant." At least, in English. In the Greek it is of course a kainos covenant. In the Hebrew, in Jeremiah, the word is chadashah. That is the verb kodesh which means "to renew" being used as an adjective. So, in the Hebrew it is also, "renewed covenant."

So what is NEW... what is passing away? The covenant God called "everlasting" (Psalm 105:8-10) that is said to be "renewed" in two different biblical languages? No.... what is passing away and what is "BETTER" is the placement of the LAW. Ezekiel 11:19, Jer. 31:34... and a few other places speak of the Law being taken from STONE and being written directly on the HEART. So God is renewing His everlasting covenant and in the process taking that which was on stone and writing it Himself on our minds and hearts directly as part of the perfection process.

The old (stone) is passing away and a better way (law on the heart) is coming. The commandments are neither bondage nor antiquated... "Do not steal" and "love your parents" are still for today. It is the stone along with sin and death... that will pass... and life and the instructions of God inside us forever that is the better way.

 

[Major1]

There is a world of difference between saying that we are not required to obey God's commands and saying that we are not required to obey God's commands in order to become saved. God's law was never given as instructions for what we need to obey in order to become saved and it does not follow that because we shouldn't obey God's commands for a purpose for which they were never given that therefore we shouldn't obey God's commands for the purposes for which they were given.

According to Romans 7:7 the law was given to reveal sin and we wouldn't even know what sin was if God hadn't revealed it in His law, and Paul has made it very clear that being under grace doesn't mean we are permitted to do what God has revealed to be sin (Romans 6:15).

I am not sure if you read my comments but that is what I have stated.

We should try to keep the commands of God because we are Christians and follow Christ.

However, we are not required to follow the commands to be saved or to stay saved.

You are correct in that keeping the Law of God never saved anyone. It is by FAITH through GRACE that everyone is saved.

 

[Major1]

I am leery addressing this because it is such an emotional topic for many. If for some reason we can't have a reasonable discussion, I will just back out.

There are two words in Greek that are translated as new. The first is nehos, the second is kainos. The word nehos means "new in regards to age," so nehos would be something that is brand new. The word kainos means "new in regards to freshness," so this word leans toward the idea of being "renewed." In "every" case but once, if you see the words, "new covenant," it is kainos not nehos. So the Greek is suggesting a renewed covenant, not a new one.

We need a second witness... and we have one. Hebrews 8:8-11 is quoted directly from Jer. 31:31-34 and it is there that we read of a "new covenant." At least, in English. In the Greek it is of course a kainos covenant. In the Hebrew, in Jeremiah, the word is chadashah. That is the verb kodesh which means "to renew" being used as an adjective. So, in the Hebrew it is also, "renewed covenant."

So what is NEW... what is passing away? The covenant God called "everlasting" (Psalm 105:8-10) that is said to be "renewed" in two different biblical languages? No.... what is passing away and what is "BETTER" is the placement of the LAW. Ezekiel 11:19, Jer. 31:34... and a few other places speak of the Law being taken from STONE and being written directly on the HEART. So God is renewing His everlasting covenant and in the process taking that which was on stone and writing it Himself on our minds and hearts directly as part of the perfection process.

The old (stone) is passing away and a better way (law on the heart) is coming. The commandments are neither bondage nor antiquated... "Do not steal" and "love your parents" are still for today. It is the stone along with sin and death... that will pass... and life and the instructions of God inside us forever that is the better way.

Agreed brother and it was well presented.

 

[Major1]

So, again, what did Jesus mean when the man asked Jesus "what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said unto him, "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother."

You are saying to inherit eternal life we don't have not commit adultery, we don't have to not kill, we don't have to not steal, we don't have to not bear false witness, we don't have to honor our mothers and our fathers. Yet here is Jesus saying we do.

Jesus: Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Major1: We as Christians are not required to keep any commandments.

Do you honestly not see a conflict here?

The conflict I see is that you are parsing your words and working to say what is not there.

You said and I quote........
"You are saying to inherit eternal life we don't have not commit adultery, we don't have to not kill, we don't have to not steal, we don't have to not bear false witness, we don't have to honor our mothers and our fathers. Yet here is Jesus saying we do."

I did not say that and I am not saying that. Please notice......I am saying that NOT doing those things will not save you!!!

They will keep you out of jail and make you a very nice person and a good friend but not doing them does not get you to heaven my friend.

WHAT DOES????

Again I say to you exactly what Jesus said to a man who was a law keeper and teacher of the law........
John 3:5......
"Verily, verily I say to you that except a man be born again of water and the SPirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God".

Romans 10:9 tells us how that takes place......
"If you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and BELIEVE in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved".