Should Christians rest on the Sabbath (saturday) and rejoice on the Lords day (sunday)?

[VanillaSunflowers]

Romans 5:19 - For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

And? What is that verse saying to you?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

If you choose not to keep Gods commandments that is between you and God.

I don't choose to not keep God's commandments. I follow them as they stand today. For example, even though God gave commandments about eating and not eating certain things, and gave commandments about what animals to sacrifice and when and how, I also know that God's Word teaches us that certain commandments, particularly those which directly relate to works under the Law, have been fulfilled in Christ.

Do you choose to keep the commandments God gives about animal sacrifices? Do you think it would please Him to do so? Why or why not?

Did Jesus not say we are to do and teach the law and the prophets to be great in the kingdom and if we oppose them and teach others to oppose them we will be call least in the kingdom? “ Matthew 5:17-20 I am not too sure what it means to be least in the kingdom so I will do what my Lord and Saviour commands and do and teach the Fathers commands.

Does not the Bible say to study to show thyself approved? Does not the Word of God teach that in Christ the Law was fulfilled and therefore certain things changed, e.g. eating/not eating of certain foods, sacrifices, the Sabbath as a DAY???

If someone refuses to obey God's commandments about animal sacrifice is that person disobeying Jesus' command to "do and teach the law"??? On the contrary - that person is doing and teaching the law in its proper context of the law being fulfilled in Christ since he fulfilled it.

Are you saying you don't discern between what commandments are fulfilled by Christ in terms of what we have to do? It sounds to me like you do animal sacrifices still. Do you do them correctly, as follows:
Numbers 15:
1 The Lord told Moses 2 to give the Israelites the following laws about offering sacrifices:

3 Bulls or rams or goats are the animals that you may burn on the altar as sacrifices to please me. You may also offer sacrifices voluntarily or because you made a promise, or because they are part of your regular religious ceremonies. The smell of the smoke from these sacrifices is pleasing to me.

4-5 If you sacrifice a young ram or goat, you must also offer two pounds of your finest flour mixed with a quart of olive oil as a grain sacrifice. A quart of wine must also be poured on the altar.

6-7 And if the animal is a full-grown ram, you must offer four pounds of flour mixed with one and a half quarts of olive oil. One and a half quarts of wine must also be poured on the altar. The smell of this smoke is pleasing to me.

8 If a bull is offered as a sacrifice to please me or to ask my blessing,9 you must offer six pounds of flour mixed with two quarts of olive oil.10 Two quarts of wine must also be poured on the altar. The smell of this smoke is pleasing to me.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I'm sorry that was rude of me I did not answer the question you asked. I rest from the troubles of this world and take His holy day to enter into rest with Him. I rest from my regular job, cooking, cleaning, shopping I do not make others serve me like going out to eat. I found I can get up early and devoure entire books of scripture because I have nothing else I have to do. When I used to read scripture and pray in the morning I was always rushed and had the world on my mind. (Please don't think I'm saying that is a bad idea, it's a wonderful thing to read he Bible daily, but for me it was always rushed.) It is very refreshing to keep it, the lie is that it is a burdon, His commandments are not burdon some.
Shalom

So you believe that when God rested on the 7th day it was a physical rest, as if God were "tired"??? Do you really believe God can become tired? I believe God is omnipotent and would never tire. Rest means a cessation of labor, especially in God's case.

When you devour a book of scripture, how do you do it? Do you have it open from the night before? Or do you hire a goy to come turn the pages? Or do you do that work yourself? Do you not consider that "work"? What do you consider "work"? I had a co-worker once who asked me to come home with him to turn on a light because it was Friday after sunset and he could no longer work. Do you think it pleases God when someone refrains from flipping a light switch after sunset on Friday?

Or do you think it pleases God to acknowledge that His Son provided us eternal rest through salvation by His Grace and Mercy, and to fully believe that and act accordingly, living our lives secure in the rest He provides us, knowing we don't have to follow rules about "work" and knowing the Sabbath is not fulfilled in the Living Christ for all eternity and any work we do is out of love and obedience rather than out of obligation under law?

I'll go with the latter. If you go with the former, that's your choice, but I believe that is blasphemous towards Christ's redemptive work. It would be like sacrificing a lamb to atone for your sins.

 

[1John2:4]

Do you choose to keep the commandments God gives about animal sacrifices? Do you think it would please Him to do so? Why or why not?

I do not sacrifice animals, the sacrifices are supposed to be made only in Jerusalem at the temple on the alter. When Yeshua returns as King of Kings in New Jerusalem, as Ezekiel the prophet foretold we will again have offerings, as for today in diaspora we do not have sacrifices. Did Daniel have animal sacrifices when he was in diaspora in Babylon? On the topic of sacrifice they were only for unintentional sin, repentance is the sacrifice that God desires from us for our intentional sin David shows us that in his Psalms when he cries out to God after his sin with Bathsheba.

 

[1John2:4]

Does not the Bible say to study to show thyself approved? Does not the Word of God teach that in Christ the Law was fulfilled and therefore certain things changed, e.g. eating/not eating of certain foods, sacrifices, the Sabbath as a DAY???

I'm not sure where that is at in the Bible can you please provide chapter and verse please.

 

[1John2:4]

When you devour a book of scripture, how do you do it? Do you have it open from the night before? Or do you hire a goy to come turn the pages? Or do you do that work yourself? Do you not consider that "work"? What do you consider "work"? I had a co-worker once who asked me to come home with him to turn on a light because it was Friday after sunset and he could no longer work. Do you think it pleases God when someone refrains from flipping a light switch after sunset on Friday?

I am not sure if you are being rude with this or you honestly have a heart to know how someone keeps the Shabbat? If you are being rude CF just added a new section on gloating and I would consider this gloating. If you are being sincere, I do not make others turn on lights for me or buy pre torn TP. I just try to have all of my work done so that I can focus on God and spending time with him and with my family.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm not sure where that is at in the Bible can you please provide chapter and verse please.

YHWH'S SHALOM!
A precaution that might or might not be needed - be aware that those ideas you asked references for are from a long history of traditions placed over Scripture and not originally from Scripture or Y'SHUA or YHWH or the Apostles of Y'SHUA.
You possibly are already well aware of this, if so, then no worries.
Be encouraged to contact me if you'd like to share some from the original Scripture in pms.
by GRACE through FAITH in Y'SHUA MESSIAH, sheer GIFTS from the FATHER in HEAVEN !

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I'm not sure where that is at in the Bible can you please provide chapter and verse please.

The challenge put to you about animal sacrifices can be rebutted if you cite Hebrews 7:27

 

[1John2:4]

So you believe that when God rested on the 7th day it was a physical rest, as if God were "tired"??? Do you really believe God can become tired? I believe God is omnipotent and would never tire. Rest means a cessation of labor, especially in God's case.

When you devour a book of scripture, how do you do it? Do you have it open from the night before? Or do you hire a goy to come turn the pages? Or do you do that work yourself? Do you not consider that "work"? What do you consider "work"? I had a co-worker once who asked me to come home with him to turn on a light because it was Friday after sunset and he could no longer work. Do you think it pleases God when someone refrains from flipping a light switch after sunset on Friday?

Or do you think it pleases God to acknowledge that His Son provided us eternal rest through salvation by His Grace and Mercy, and to fully believe that and act accordingly, living our lives secure in the rest He provides us, knowing we don't have to follow rules about "work" and knowing the Sabbath is not fulfilled in the Living Christ for all eternity and any work we do is out of love and obedience rather than out of obligation under law?

I'll go with the latter. If you go with the former, that's your choice, but I believe that is blasphemous towards Christ's redemptive work. It would be like sacrificing a lamb to atone for your sins.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

So you believe that when God rested on the 7th day it was a physical rest, as if God were "tired"??? Do you really believe God can become tired? I believe God is omnipotent and would never tire. Rest means a cessation of labor, especially in God's case.

When you devour a book of scripture, how do you do it? Do you have it open from the night before? Or do you hire a goy to come turn the pages? Or do you do that work yourself? Do you not consider that "work"? What do you consider "work"? I had a co-worker once who asked me to come home with him to turn on a light because it was Friday after sunset and he could no longer work. Do you think it pleases God when someone refrains from flipping a light switch after sunset on Friday?

Or do you think it pleases God to acknowledge that His Son provided us eternal rest through salvation by His Grace and Mercy, and to fully believe that and act accordingly, living our lives secure in the rest He provides us, knowing we don't have to follow rules about "work" and knowing the Sabbath is not fulfilled in the Living Christ for all eternity and any work we do is out of love and obedience rather than out of obligation under law?

I'll go with the latter. If you go with the former, that's your choice, but I believe that is blasphemous towards Christ's redemptive work. It would be like sacrificing a lamb to atone for your sins.

Do you think you sound charitable here? That you love 1John2:4 as you love yourself?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

People who are observing the Sabbath are inconsistent if they are not also following God's commandments about atonement through sacrifice and temple worship and dietary laws - and if they're doing those things, they are following Judaism, not Christianity, because they are denying Christ's saving work on the cross.

Not true since there is no Temple. Christ sacrifice fulfills it. The Sabbath did not depend on the Temple. Again, if you break one of the 10 Commandments is it a sin?

 

[I am Redeemed]

Have you read Acts of the Apostles 15? My interpretation is fine, it clearly states that the gentiles are not required to keep the law of Moses. If you had read it you would know that one of the commands that were given to the gentiles was to abstain from fornication this would include sex with animals.

As Christians we are called to a higher law. The law of love through the Spirit. Love fulfills the law. No need to live by the letter which kills.



Maybe you should read those verses in context. For instance Romans 7:4 and Romans 7:6 say that we are dead to the law.

John, to give a biblical description of fornication you need the old testament law to actually know what is fornication. If you only use the New Testament there would only be a very limited knowledge of fornication, so if you don't keep the law that would make you a transgressor and a sinner from a bible point of view. Let's say you want to be a christian and cover your whole body with tattoos, will that be OK for a christian to do this? Acts 15 don't mention that does it? but the law does say not to get tattoos, Leviticus 19:28 so can a christian is allow to get a tattoo? answer no because the Word of God say no and: Timothy 3:16 ((All Scripture)) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. This includes the Old Testament too and not just Acts 15. and Psalm 1:1 Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; 2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord, And in His law he meditates day and night. You see keeping Gods law is a beautiful thing and a blessing. We keep it out of love because the purpose of the law is to show you correctly by instruction of the Most High how to love God and your neighbor and even your self. God bless you Brother

 

[1John2:4]

The challenge put to you about animal sacrifices can be rebutted if you cite Hebrews 7:27

Thanks, I am not disputing the animal sacrifice part that was for unintentional sin anyway. God requires repentance and a humble spirit for intentional sin In other words you are right my friend ")

 

[parousia70]

I didn't want to because it would be going way off topic but I will anyways. Lets see where should I start? Praying to Mary and various Saints.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

So you never ask anyone to pray for you?
You never accept other peoples offers of prayer on your behalf?

James 5:16 - Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Ephesians 6:18 - Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

1 Timothy 2:1 - I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;

Colossians 1:9 - For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Matthew 5:44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

1 Thessalonians 5:25 - Brethren, pray for us.

Romans 15:30 - Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in [your] prayers to God for me;

2 Thessalonians 3:1 - Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you:

If We are to ONLY go to Christ alone with requests for Prayer, why are the apostles continually asking one another to pray for them? Don't they Know the TRUTH you know? Namely That they should not be asking other people to mediate for them by exhorting their flocks to pray for one another?

How could the apostles have been so wrong about that?

And of course God is the God of the LIVING not the Dead, and the Body of Christ is WHOLE and death can not separate us, and those in heaven CLEARLY deliver our prayers:

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.

But again, John was probably wrong about that too, huh? He should have known the truth you know, but He clearly didn't.

Confessionals are not biblical.

oops!

James 5:16
16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

The whole idea of the Pope is not biblical.

The Church of scripture is one united ecclesial body (Eph 4:3-4; Eph 4:13-16; Jn 17:21; Mt 16:18) without schismatic divisions (1 Cor 12:25; Rom 16:17; 1 Cor 1:10; Jude 1:19; Gal 5:20; 3 John 1:9-10), with one teaching for all the churches (Acts 15:22-23,25,28/Acts 16:4-5; 1 Tim 1:3; 1 Cor 1:10; Eph 4:5; Jude 1:3), and one bishopric authorized of and by the apostles (Titus 1:5) by the laying on of hands in ordination (Heb 6:2; 2 Tim 1:6; 1 Tim 4:14; Titus 1:5), sharing ministers back and forth among all churches (1 Cor 16:3; Rom 16:1,3,9,21,23; Phil 2:19,25; Titus 3:12), receiving one another in fellowship and in greeting (Rom 15:5-7; Rom 16:16; Col 4:10,12,14; 3 John 1:9-10), where excommunication removes individuals from this one body (Matt 18:17; 1 Corinthians 5:1-2,4-5), and which existed from St. Peter and the apostles unto today (Matt 16:18-19; Eph 3:21).

They worship Angels and graven images.

No, No more than I "worship" a picture of my dearly departed Grandmother that hangs in my hallway at home....

I suppose once a family member of yours passes on, you remove all photographs of them from your possession, lest you be tempted to Worship them??
That's silly.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The battle is a spiritual one.
Without a new heart no one can escape the penalty for idolatry and other pagan practices.
YHWH is the ONE WHO grants a new spirit, born again, by grace through faith.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Do you think you sound charitable here? That you love 1John2:4 as you love yourself?

Yes, I do. Why do you ask?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I'm not sure where that is at in the Bible can you please provide chapter and verse please.

Absolutely -
2 Timothy 2:15King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

When you rightly divide the word of truth you look not only at God's commandments as they were given in the Old Testament but also how they were fulfilled in the New Testament (i.e. by Christ).

Matthew 5:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I do not sacrifice animals, the sacrifices are supposed to be made only in Jerusalem at the temple on the alter. When Yeshua returns as King of Kings in New Jerusalem, as Ezekiel the prophet foretold we will again have offerings, as for today in diaspora we do not have sacrifices. Did Daniel have animal sacrifices when he was in diaspora in Babylon? On the topic of sacrifice they were only for unintentional sin, repentance is the sacrifice that God desires from us for our intentional sin David shows us that in his Psalms when he cries out to God after his sin with Bathsheba.

So you're saying that there are reasons which you consider acceptable for disobeying God's commandments about offering sacrifices?

Here's what God's Word says about sacrifices and what they were and why they stopped (and why they would happen again in the future):
Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All

Hebrews 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The Sabbath was also a shadow of what was to come in the form of Christ.

 

[1John2:4]

Absolutely -
2 Timothy 2:15King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

When you rightly divide the word of truth you look not only at God's commandments as they were given in the Old Testament but also how they were fulfilled in the New Testament (i.e. by Christ).

Matthew 5:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Absolutely -
2 Timothy 2:15King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

When you rightly divide the word of truth you look not only at God's commandments as they were given in the Old Testament but also how they were fulfilled in the New Testament (i.e. by Christ).

Matthew 5:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I am not sure if you are being rude with this or you honestly have a heart to know how someone keeps the Shabbat? If you are being rude CF just added a new section on gloating and I would consider this gloating. If you are being sincere, I do not make others turn on lights for me or buy pre torn TP. I just try to have all of my work done so that I can focus on God and spending time with him and with my family.

I'm sorry you are interpreting me to be rude but to be very honest I can't see how anything I said can be construed as rude. I asked you questions which were pretty straightforward and speak for themselves. I provided you an example of what I was talking about by telling you about my co-worker. I am making a very serious point about "work". It seems to me that you have a very personalized version of what the Sabbath is in the sense that you define "work" in a way that suits your needs as opposed to adhering to a more legal sense of keeping the Sabbath. And I'm not even saying there's anything wrong with that, but I am trying to point out that it is not the same as the Judaic form of keeping the Sabbath.