Debunking Pangaea/Continental Drift Theory.

[Speedwell]

Hi rick,

Well, that's the task that he has set for himself and while I encourage him in such a noble work, I'm not sure the results of doing such a thing will turn people to Jesus. Man is wicked! That's really all of it. I'm wicked! You're wicked! Every man is wicked! The only way we can become less wicked is to believe God. ]

So, even if commander does succeed in debunking the theory that he's working on, the likely outcome will just be that science will move on to some other natural explanation. Just as yourself, you won't believe God because your steadfast rule of measure is the natural properties of things.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

The problem is (just to take your side for a moment, if you can credit such a thing) he is debunking the wrong--or an inaccurate version, at least--of the theory. This is a considerable barrier for Creationists for some reason. It's gotten to the point where if a Creationist says something to the effect of "The theory of evolution requires..." or "Science says..." you can pretty much bet that whatever follows will be wildly inaccurate. The same thing often happens when you guys talk about what non-YEC Christians believe. That Barr quote you are so fond of is a good example. It hits a segment of the theistic evolution crowd, but by no means all.

This would all be a lot more fun if you were arguing against what we really believed.

 

[RickG]

This topic is not up for debate. It belongs in the same group of absurdities as flat earth theories.

Amen!

 

[RickG]

This would all be a lot more fun if you were arguing against what we really believed.

Excellent point, the Dunning-Kruger effect. People who have no background in the science(s) they belittle don't even know that the basic arguments they present don't even describe the science correctly.

 

[Speedwell]

And anybody who takes the trouble to look over the Creationist propaganda sites can tell exactly where the misinformation is coming from.

 

[Vicomte13]

One of the most fascinating things to observe is that the continental plates ALSO fit together in the Pacific.

We can all see how Africa and South America fit together. But Asia and the West Coast of the Americas ALSO fit together like a puzzle.

So, you can have your Pangea, but when you put them ALL together, there are no oceans.

THEY may have been compressed beneath the crust of the Earth - a smaller earth. That's the only way to fit ALL of the pieces together. When the crust was broken, the waters burst forth, and the whole globe expanded outwards like a souffle, driven up by hydraulic pressure until a new equilibrium was reached, with the continents spread apart.

It also explains the Flood, and continental drift, and why the plates also fit together in the Pacific, not just in the Atlantic, and why the basaltic plates of the abyssal plains are all so apparently young. But neither creationists nor geologists talk about this, so I should probably just let it be rather than argue about it.

 

[RickG]

One of the most fascinating things to observe is that the continental plates ALSO fit together in the Pacific.

We can all see how Africa and South America fit together. But Asia and the West Coast of the Americas ALSO fit together like a puzzle.

So, you can have your Pangea, but when you put them ALL together, there are no oceans.

Then where did the marine sediment of that age and before come from?

It also explains the Flood, and continental drift, and why the plates also fit together in the Pacific, not just in the Atlantic, and why the basaltic plates of the abyssal plains are all so apparently young. But neither creationists nor geologists talk about this, so I should probably just let it be rather than argue about it.

Ever hear of Sea Floor Spreading and Magnetic Anomalies?

 

[Widlast]

Before you try to debunk a theory, first try to get an understanding of it.
What you have stated so far is drivel.
The drifting of the tectonic plates has not been a constant value, it has varied all over the place through the millennia.
Give a go a debunking gravity and see how far you get with that.

 

[dqhall]

Ever hear of Sea Floor Spreading and Magnetic Anomalies?

Iceland is located over a rift zone where the sea floors are spreading along a north-south axis. There is volcanic activity in this zone of rifting. New crust is being extruded in this zone. As the basalt solidifies, the magnetic minerals magnetite and ilmenite crystallize and are oriented towards magnetic north. Occasionally the magnetic pole reverses polarity. The basaltic sea floor is a record of what polarity was in place at the time the crust solidified. These are known as magnetic anomalies.

Not only are there rift zones under the ocean in areas of active sea floor spreading, there are subduction zones where continental plates sink back into the semi-solid super heated mantle. The East Asian Pacific seafloor contains an example of a subduction zone. As one plate slowly dives under another plate, there is associated volcanic and earthquake activity in Japan, the Philippines etc. The Marianas Trench is in a subduction zone.

There is a tectonic plate with the subcontinent India on it. This plate slammed into the Asian plate over the course of millions of years and the uplift of the Himalayas resulted. The Himalayas are yet rising.

I recall this from an undergraduate geology course I took thirty some years ago. The truth is stranger than fiction.

 

[J Cord]

Dirt underwater connecting the continents? Wow! You're getting way too scientific for me.

Thanks for the lolz. Great answer.

 

[98cwitr]

Well considering Pangaea didn't start breaking apart until 175 million years ago you may want to adjust your math for that. In another 100 million years all the plates will have shifted a whole lot more than what we see today (obviously). Plate material is recycled back into the mantle as well, so unless the plate continues to get pushed up and cooled it is slowly getting pushed under another plate. Interesting article and video on the issue: http://www.iflscience.com/space/what-will-earth-look-100-million-years-now/

 

[J Cord]

Well considering Pangaea didn't start breaking apart until 175 million years ago you may want to adjust your math for that. In another 100 million years all the plates will have shifted a whole lot more than what we see today (obviously). Plate material is recycled back into the mantle as well, so unless the plate continues to get pushed up and cooled it is slowly getting pushed under another plate. Interesting article and video on the issue: http://www.iflscience.com/space/what-will-earth-look-100-million-years-now/

Thank you, cool video.

 

[chevyontheriver]

One of the most fascinating things to observe is that the continental plates ALSO fit together in the Pacific.

We can all see how Africa and South America fit together. But Asia and the West Coast of the Americas ALSO fit together like a puzzle.

So, you can have your Pangea, but when you put them ALL together, there are no oceans.

THEY may have been compressed beneath the crust of the Earth - a smaller earth. That's the only way to fit ALL of the pieces together. When the crust was broken, the waters burst forth, and the whole globe expanded outwards like a souffle, driven up by hydraulic pressure until a new equilibrium was reached, with the continents spread apart.

It also explains the Flood, and continental drift, and why the plates also fit together in the Pacific, not just in the Atlantic, and why the basaltic plates of the abyssal plains are all so apparently young. But neither creationists nor geologists talk about this, so I should probably just let it be rather than argue about it.

I think you need a hollow earth for that, like a few people persist in believing.

 

[Vicomte13]

I think you need a hollow earth for that, like a few people persist in believing.

You don't. You just need heavily compressed water bursting through the crust. Water will compress about 40% under the weight of about 25 miles of crust.

In any case, the plates do fit together in the Pacific, and nobody has ever shown me a map of the world with the continents arranged like that. If the Pangaea theory is true, then the closed-Pacific super-continent must have preceded it by hundreds of millions of years.

 

[1213]

The other theory is that in the Flood, the continents separated very swiftly (perhaps a few days). You can make a bit of a case for it, like Plato says so, there is a verse in the Bible, a phrase in the Babylonian flood story, a few old maps, a few anomalies in archeology, and a reconstructing of the continental movements in the Battle of the Stars poem in the Christian Sybilline Oracles. Nothing proven, but in this forum, worthy of note.

I think that theory is probably correct, if it means that the original continent collapsed when the flood happened similarly as in the pictures here:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/r.berg/geology.html

 

[Vicomte13]

Then where did the marine sediment of that age and before come from?


Ever hear of Sea Floor Spreading and Magnetic Anomalies?

Of course I've heard of these things.

My point is that the puzzle pieces also fit together in the Pacific - and I have never seen a Pangaea map, or any other map, drawn to show THOSE pieces together. The Atlantic pieces are obvious, but so are the Pacific pieces (when you look at the continental shelves).

So, you've got a situation where the plates fit together across the Atlantic AND across the Pacific.

I want to see a map drawn with those recognitions in place. It can be done, but when you do it, you end up with no oceans. You end up with a smaller, all-brown globe. And that's interesting.

If one cannot accept that, that's fine, but then draw the map with the pieces closed in the Pacific. What does that continent look like? Obviously it once EXISTED, because the plates fit. But what did the Atlantic side look like then?

 

[Dig4truth]

I'd check this theory out:

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview2.html

 

[Dig4truth]

Here is a quote from Dr Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory;

The Data Finally Released. One U.S. Navy scientist, N. Christian Smoot, an evolutionist, spent 32 years precisely mapping the ocean floor. His book, Tectonic Globaloney: Closing Arguments (Author House Press, 2012), describes discoveries on the ocean floor that falsify plate tectonics. Smoot, a veteran of 67 cruises, was responsible for declassifying some of this data for use outside the U.S. Navy. He says he “devoutly believed” the plate tectonic theory, but now knows it is “baloney” or “tectonic globaloney.” Based on features he sees on the ocean floor, Smoot concludes that subduction does not occur, and the seafloor is not spreading.

110–425.

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ229.html#wp13687726

 

[Ken Behrens]

One of the most fascinating things to observe is that the continental plates ALSO fit together in the Pacific.

Can you find me a picture of what you are talking about? I can't make it work in my head.

 

[Ken Behrens]

I think that theory is probably correct, if it means that the original continent collapsed when the flood happened similarly as in the pictures here:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/r.berg/geology.html

I kind of agree, but when you add the bouncing molten core into the picture, it makes the two sub-continents bounce like rafts in a hurricane. We need this to account for all the literature, if we want a scientific solution. The Bible tells us only the parts God thought relevant to His relationship with us. We must also remember that the library of Alexandria was destroyed by 390 AD, and with it, the books that had the other details presumably, and it may have held details that everyone knew when God wrote Genesis through Mses..

 

[chevyontheriver]

You don't. You just need heavily compressed water bursting through the crust. Water will compress about 40% under the weight of about 25 miles of crust.

I've found water compression information to one mile in the ocean, and it's less than 1%. Can you document your 40% at 25 miles figure. I presume you are saying that at 100 miles and 500 miles the compression is even greater.

In any case, the plates do fit together in the Pacific, and nobody has ever shown me a map of the world with the continents arranged like that. If the Pangaea theory is true, then the closed-Pacific super-continent must have preceded it by hundreds of millions of years.

Yes, other arrangements would be older. It's just that the data for the spreading of the Atlantic ocean is so obvious. You can fly across the Atlantic with a magnetometer spooled out the back of the plane and get a pattern up to the mid-Atlantic rift that plays out exactly backwards from there to the other shore, Older arrangements are a more complex puzzle. For me the Atlantic magnetometer data is compelling evidence that continents move. I've seen nothing to indicate to me that the diameter of the earth has expanded significantly in the past few billion years.