Which Church is THE Church?

[amadeois]

A Catholic will say that other people have dressed that way.

Yes, but not equally to what the Catholic Church copied from the jews.

Have you read the characteristics of the garments of the High Priest?

The jews also used purple and scarlet but there were some minor differences.

How about the lighting candles?

The RCC is kind of a copy cat of the Jewish system and methods, but is not guided by God but by the Adversary of God.

Somebody has to create something very similar to deceive you. Minor subtelties.

But now they have become greater and so ridiculous that you can see the differences easily.

But at the beginning they were lead the WRONG way, a path of destruction.

Sorry my catholic friends but you will not convince me with your ideology because I was one in your group but I read the alert and I got out and I love Jesus not the great deception.

Get out of the loosing team.

 

[Light of the East]

THE Church = all believers; all who are born again, are IN Christ and who belong to him.

Nope. The Church is a distinct congregation with visible Sacraments which replaced the ordinances of Judaism. The Church has specific leadership and a specific place and type of worship.

Your Prottie denominations have none of that.

Because you are Catholic, you have tailored all your questions, and answers, so that the only possible conclusion is that the Catholic church is the true one.

They are not tailored, sir. You have absolutely no proof whatsoever that your particular denomination existed in the first century. None. But the Holy Orthodox and the Catholic Church can trace their practices and beliefs all the way back to the first century. Why would you want to be in a group that A.) does not worship as the Apostles and Early Church did B.) has no history past 1517 C.) made up doctrines which were not known by the Early Church and which came from torturing and twisting Scripture?

But we could equally ask;
Q Would the true church be led by the Spirit?
A Yes

Q Would the true church, led by the Spirit of truth, teach what is not in the Bible?
A No

Q Is ................. (insert Catholic teaching or doctrine) in the Bible?
A No

All doctrines of the Holy Orthodox and most of the doctrines of the Catholic Church (except 2)can be found in a proper interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures.

Let's take the Theotokis, or the Mother of God, and Her being Queen of Heaven and earth. Jesus is called "the Last Adam" in 1 Corin. 15:45. I used to just blow by that verse (as you probably have done many times in your Bible study) without asking myself "What is the real significance of Jesus being called the Last Adam?" The name "Adam" points back to the Garden of Eden. Big clue there. If Jesus is "last Adam" then it means He has taken Adam's place as the head of mankind and the one who is now over Creation, as the Father intended Adam to be one day. Adam failed, Jesus succeeded, and Adam (that is, covenant head over Creation) is restored. The damage done to mankind in the Fall has been reversed.

Oh! But wait! What about Eve? If Christ's work on the Cross has undone the damage done in the Fall, and restored to mankind a Last Adam to head over all Creation, can we just forget about Eve? Not at all! For the restoration of the Edenic glory to mankind to be complete, there must be a New Eve. Someone go to along with the Last Adam in taking the place of the original Eve.

Who could it be.....hmmmmmmmmmmm.....let's see.

I only see one candidate, that would be the Virgin Mary. She is the New Eve, and inherits, by virtue of Her obedience to God and all-holy life, the mantle of Eve lost in the Garden.

Adam and Eve were destined to be king and queen over Creation, but they failed the test. Jesus and Mary, the Last Adam and the New Eve, were obedient and are now the human rulers over Creation.

This is how you do Bible study, sir. You don't read Chick tracts to get good Bible information, nor do you use the "literalist interpretive grid" to try to understand the mind of God when He Himself uses analogies, metaphors, parables, and stories to teach us.

Q So is the Catholic church the true church?

See what I mean? You can structure questions to arrive at a predetermined conclusion. It proves nothing.

Back to my original point. The questions are not "structured." They are legitimate questions which deserve an answer. You appear to be afraid to admit that you are following a man-made set of traditions which did not exist prior to 1517.

 

[Hallstone]

Q. Did Jesus found a church?
A. Yes. (Matthew 16:18)

Q. How many churches did Jesus found?
A. One; the Church is the Body of Christ and there is only one body of Christ. (Romans 12:5, Ephesians 4:4, Colossians 1:18)

Q. So, if Jesus founded a Church, then when was it founded?
A. 2000 years ago.

Q. Was that Church guided by the Holy Spirit?
A. Yes. (John 14:26, John 16:13; Acts 2:3-4)

Q. If the Church was founded by Jesus Christ and was guided by the Holy Spirit, could it teach doctrinal error?
A. No. (1 Timothy 3:15)

Q. So, could we say that the Church founded by Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit, taught doctrinal truth infallibly — without error — to the first-century Christians?
A. Yes. (Luke 10:16, John 14:16-17, 1 Peter 1:12)

Q. Did the Church of the New Testament teach different doctrinal truths to different people in different areas?
A. No. (2 Timothy 1:12-14, Ephesians 4:14, Titus 1:9)

Q. Are there any denominations in the Church of the New Testament?
A. No. The Church in the New Testament is one, just as the Body of Christ is one (1 Corinthians 1:10, 1 Corinthians 11:18-19, Jude 19)

Q. Would a Church founded by Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit still be in existence today?
A. Yes. (Matthew 16:18, Matthew 28:20, Ephesians 3:21)

Q. How old would that Church be?
A. 2000 years old.

Q. Would that Church still be guided by the Holy Spirit?
A. Yes. (Matthew 28:20, John 14:16)

Q. Could that Church founded by Jesus and still guided by the Holy Spirit teach doctrinal error?
A. No. (1 Timothy 3:15, 1 Corinthians 12:28)

Q. So we could say that the Church founded by Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit would still teach doctrinal truth infallibly?
A. Yes. (Luke 10:16, John 14:16-17, 1 Peter 1:12)

Q. Would that Church founded by Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit teach different doctrinal truths to different people in different areas?
A. No. (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8, 1 Timothy 4:6)

Q. Would there be any denominations in that Church?
A. No. (1 Corinthians 1:13)

Q. Can the Lutheran denomination be the Church founded by Jesus in the Holy Land 2000 years ago?
A. No. It was founded by Martin Luther in Germany in the 1500s.

Q. Can the Anglican/Episcopalian denomination, or any of its offshoots, be the Church founded by Jesus in the Holy Land 2000 years ago?
A. No. It was founded by King Henry VIII in the 1500s because he wanted to divorce his wife.

Q. Are there any Baptist, Evangelical, Pentecostal, Fundamentalist, non-denominational or other Protestant groups that were founded by Jesus in the Holy Land 2000 years ago?
A. No.

Q. So is there any Baptist, Evangelical, Pentecostal, Fundamentalist, non-denominational or other Protestant group that could be the Church founded by Jesus Christ in the Holy Land 2000 years ago?
A. No.

Q. So if Jesus founded a Church — one Church — in the Holy Land 2000 years ago that was guided by the Holy Spirit, and that Church is still in existence today and is still guided by the Holy Spirit (which means it teaches doctrinal truth infallibly), and there are no denominations of that Church now, just as there were no denominations of that Church 2000 years ago, then shouldn’t all Christians be in that one Church founded by Jesus?
A. Yes.

Q. Does it make sense to be in a church that was not founded by Jesus Christ in the Holy Land 2000 years ago?
A. No.

Q. How can we identify which Church — of the thousands upon thousands — is THE Church founded by Jesus?
A. The Church founded by Jesus should at least claim to be THE Church founded by Jesus; it should be able to trace its leadership back 2000 years to the Apostles; and it should claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit and to thus teach doctrinal truth infallibly with the authority of Jesus Christ, its Founder.

Q. How many churches fit that description?
A. One.

Q. Which Church is that?
A. The Catholic Church.
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jmartignoni/which-church-is-the-church.

I don't mean this disrespectfully but all of the denominations are organizations of which the Catholic church is the oldest but it is simply another organization in which Constantine syncretized the ancient pagan priestcraft with Christianity which organized the first Organization that the Ekklesia (called out ones) needed to come out of. Which to me represents the first Organization and then the other Organizations that came from it, in other words the Harlot and Her Children. The Ekklesia has always been Ekklesia (not an Organization).

 

[Light of the East]

This Roman Catholic Church barely mentions the enemy.

Why?

Are they the church of the enemy?

According to the word (the bible, Jesus), church is not the ekklesia that Jesus found.

If you read Revelation 18, then you'll learn what happens to that great city dressed in purple and scarlet.

To those that follow this church, pay attention to the alert in Revelation 18:4.

I'm trying to alert you people.

Still too many souls that DO NOT want to open their eyes to the ONLY TRUTH = JESUS

GLORY BE TO JESUS.

Your mind is poisoned by all the anti-Catholic stuff you been readin'

 

[Monk Brendan]

Q. How many churches fit that description?
A. One.

Actually, ALL of the pre-reformation Churches--Catholic of various flavors, Orthodox of various flavors, and so on--anyone that can show a valid link to the Apostles--are all part of that one Catholic/Orthodox Church that was founded by Jesus. If they can't prove a valid link, then they are not part of that Church.

 

[amadeois]

Everybody makes their own decisions.

Believe in Jesus and have eternal salvation.

Believe in the Enemy and have eternal damnation.

IT IS YOUR DECISION.

But then, SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

BUY EYE SALVE FROM JESUS

 

[Albion]

Actually, ALL of the pre-reformation Churches--Catholic of various flavors, Orthodox of various flavors, and so on--anyone that can show a valid link to the Apostles--are all part of that one Catholic/Orthodox Church that was founded by Jesus. If they can't prove a valid link, then they are not part of that Church.

At least that's a bit more engaging a concept than the rote-memorized stuff that we are given on these forums so often ("My denomination is the only one Christ likes. Too bad about your manmade one.").

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

They always leave out the Lutherans.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Truth is always disruptive to those who wish to live in fantasy.

My concern is that I am more than happy to discuss.

I have zero inclination to argue. It often dissolves into whoever can get the must "zings" in, sometimes hidden ones, and I think must be very displeasing to God, and at any rate, good for neither my peace nor my spiritual condition, and usually unlikely to convince anyone to examine their beliefs.

Some do examine as a result, and those who are perhaps gifted to wade into such an environment, if done with the blessing of God and in the right spirit, in order to reach those folks have my respect. But it's not me.

And I suppose that's irrelevant. I am more concerned with helping get the proper discussion in the proper place. Keeping this in TT invites too many reports. No need to overload the mods.

 

[~Anastasia~]

They always leave out the Lutherans.

That seems rather odd. Maybe I'm influenced by living in the US, but I never forget Luther when considering such histories.

Of course, I wouldn't use that particular drawing anyway.

 

[Light of the East]

A Catholic will say that other people have dressed that way. Yes, but not equally to what the Catholic Church copied from the Jews.

Maybe you should study your Bible a little more closely:

Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The worship of Judaism was a figure of the true. When the pagans who surrounded Jerusalem and the Jews watched a Jewish Liturgy, they were seeing the truth of heaven enacted right there before them. And how important was this Liturgy to God?

Look at this warning from God:

Heb 8:5
Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

This was a strong warning from God not to do what Protestants have done for the last 500 years - tamper with that which God has given to the world - the Divine Liturgy. Even the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church apparently has been unable to resist messing around with that which was given to the world for its salvation.

Yes, the Catholic or universal faith looks just like Judaism because it is a continuation of that which God gave unto the world in the desert with Moses. You and your Prottie consorts have no right to tinker with the Divine Liturgy and make up a "worship" which is according to your liking, whether it be Jimmy Swaggart's Boogie-Woogie Nightclub Extravaganza or some Anglican High Mass which is not linked to the Apostles by apostolic succession of authority. Everything done in the Catholic faith, whether that faith be Holy Orthodox or the 23 Rites of Catholicism, is a continuation and fulfillment of Judaism.

You should get a nice, cold lager and a good cigar and sit and ponder those verses above until it sinks into you just how arrogant the Protestant Rebels were to take what God had given, ignore the warning of Hebrews 8:5, and make up their own worship.

Sorry my catholic friends but you will not convince me with your ideology because I was one in your group but I read the alert and I got out and I love Jesus not the great deception.

Oh! Of course! I should have guessed. Some door-to-door pitchman for Protestant error came along and convinced you of his particular brand (denomination) of Christianity, and you, being uncatechized (don't argue with me, even the Church has admitted that the last 100 years have been a catechetical disaster ) bought into the nonsense. It was like taking a knife to a gunfight for you to even try to resist whoever it was. These guys are slick. I know....I used to be one of them, complete with all my memorized errors and misinterpretations from the Bible.

Thank God for faithful Catholics who challenged me in my ignorant state and brought me to see just how badly I had been deceived. I hope some day someone can convince you that you have made a dreadful error in leaving the Church.

 

[Light of the East]

My concern is that I am more than happy to discuss.

I have zero inclination to argue. It often dissolves into whoever can get the must "zings" in, sometimes hidden ones, and I think must be very displeasing to God, and at any rate, good for neither my peace nor my spiritual condition, and usually unlikely to convince anyone to examine their beliefs.

Some do examine as a result, and those who are perhaps gifted to wade into such an environment, if done with the blessing of God and in the right spirit, in order to reach those folks have my respect. But it's not me.

And I suppose that's irrelevant. I am more concerned with helping get the proper discussion in the proper place. Keeping this in TT invites too many reports. No need to overload the mods.

You are a good person for this.

Me......eeeeehhhhhh, not so much. Someone told me yesterday that I am like St. Jerome. Cantankerous old grouch.

 

[amadeois]

Wow!!!

That great deceiver has brainwashed so many people, the great majority on earth.

Only three main religious organizations believe in only ONE god. Others believe on a lot of God's or other strange ideas.

1. Judaism, started the ball rolling.
2. Chistianity and it's ramifications.
3. Islam.

The BALL started rolling and too many things happened.

Jesus came with the new covenant, a covenant of Love.

But many have not understood His message.

Tha ball now has turned into a SQUARE.

WHY?

 

[Light of the East]

Actually, ALL of the pre-reformation Churches--Catholic of various flavors, Orthodox of various flavors, and so on--anyone that can show a valid link to the Apostles--are all part of that one Catholic/Orthodox Church that was founded by Jesus. If they can't prove a valid link, then they are not part of that Church.

Melkite~!

LOVE the Melkite Liturgy!!!

 

[Albion]

They always leave out the Lutherans.

You're there in the green but just lumped with all the other Protestants of the Reformation era.

That seems rather odd. Maybe I'm influenced by living in the US, but I never forget Luther when considering such histories.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Your Prottie denominations have none of that.

Is that really necessary? How about Love your neighbor? Prottie is not a word I'm comfortable with

 

[amadeois]

Too many hard headed and blind people in this world.

What can you do?

Show them the truth and we hope that the ground may become softer and ready to germinate the seed of Jesus.

But if that ground is hard, then that seed will die and it will not give fruits.

HOW SAD.

 

[~Anastasia~]

You are a good person for this.

Me......eeeeehhhhhh, not so much. Someone told me yesterday that I am like St. Jerome. Cantankerous old grouch.

No, I'm not a good person. Something inside of me would probably LOVE to sit people down and put duct tape over their mouths and make them listen to what I have learned. I won't say "what I know" because that makes it sound like I'm somehow responsible for it, and I'm not. I'm only blessed to be an inheritor of what has been safeguarded and passed down, and thankful to God beyond measure for bringing it to light for me, in the proper time, after I learned what was necessary otherwise, I suppose.

No, what I have is a good spiritual guide (guides, really) who have taught me that this is at least one proper way, and the right one for me (and probably nearly all people, actually). And so I put down my flesh, and did as I was told rather than what I wanted to do. Sometimes. Sometimes I failed at it. Now, after a good bit of practice, it has become who I am, and I recognize the wisdom of those who have taught me, and I gain the benefits of a peaceful spirit, because of their efforts (and my own, when I have fought the goading of my flesh and demons). In many things.

But I do not think it is right to say I am a good person. I am one who has benefited from my teachers, thank God for them.

It is also important for me to remember I am still tempted, and I can still fail in this, or other things.

God bless you, my brother.

 

[amadeois]

Jesús means love.

Jewish people always fighting.

Christianity and catholics fighting in the crusades and all over the world.

Islam also fighting in the middle east.

DO THEY KNOW WHAT LOVE MEANS?

 

[lesliedellow]

Go away and talk to yourself in a mirror. Nobody is interested in listening to your propaganda, except perhaps yourself.