The bible says to not strain at a gnat, but a parable is not a gnat ;)

[Gregory Thompson]

No you don't. Shrimp don't have scales

Unlike salmon, which do (have scales)

Reminds me of

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

 

[civilwarbuff]

Is a backbone a requirement for clean sea creatures?

Were there any OT clean seas creatures without one?

 

[Vicomte13]

God said to only eat fish from the water that has fins and scales. Shrimp don't have fins and scales, therefore they're unclean.

He said that to Hebrews, living in Israel, under the Law, with the Temple up, the priesthood in place, and the Urim and Thummim operating as an oracle.

They were unclean to Hebrews.

Nothing was ever unclean to most of our ancestors, but we were not to eat blood, or perhaps animals that were still alive. (The Hebrew idiom is not clear.)

If what the Apostles said binds us (in other words, if we treat the words of the Apostle James in Acts as having the same degree of binding authority that many treat Paul's words), then we are still prohibited from eating blood.

 

[W2L]

Were there any OT clean seas creatures without one?

I don't know, I'm not aware of every sea creature in existence. They just discovered a new type of dolphin whale. They are always discovering new things like that.

 

[Deadworm]

Michael, thanks so much for drawing our attention to the most timely saying of Jesus for this site (Matthew 23:23-24):
"Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, but have neglected the weightier matters of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat (galma), but swallow a camel (gamla)!"

On behalf of the mods, Jesus, I first need to warn you: "Your name-calling ("Hypocrites!" "Blind guides!") is flaming, which will not be tolerated on this site!" But I will reluctantly consider your point as it applies to this site's treatment of Mormons.

Jesus' bizarre choice of images here is based on His love of shock tactics and Aramaic puns which express His unique wit more clearly than any other Gospel sayings. These witty puns are unfortunately all lost in translation. His "galma/ gamla" pun (= gnat/ camel) here is used to accuse the Pharisees of spiritual dyslexia, that is. of reversing priorities in such a way that they miss the big picture.

The Pharisees' legalistic debating style inspires nitpicking that causes them to overlook fair and merciful treatment that honors unconventional forms of faith.
The Risen Lord would use this saying to rebuke the evangelical mistreatment of Mormons in the "non-Christian Religion" section of this site. Our thought police don't consider Mormons Christians. So like the Pharisees, they pour Mormon prooftexts through their cloth filters and strain out texts that don't explicitly express basic evangelical doctrines. In so doing, they miss the big picture (the camel) and inadvertently swallow the huge lie that Mormons can't be saved because they pay homage to a false prophet and a false book of revelation. What they fail to notice is how completely Mormons believe in and are transformed by the evangelical Gospel of salvation by grace through repentance and faith in Christ's atoning death on the cross. So Michael, thanks for posting your inadvertent reminder of Jesus' punned principle.

 

[ewq1938]

Who's arguing?

Here is what God says:

“‘These you do eat of all that are in the waters: any one that has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas or in the rivers, that you do eat.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭11:9‬ ‭ISR98‬‬

God said to only eat fish from the water that has fins and scales.

No he didn't say "fish" so any sea creature that has fins and scales fit the description and scrimp definitely have both.

Shrimp don't have fins and scales, therefore they're unclean.

You made three errors within a 9 word sentence.

Guess what the only thing is in the water that moves and has fins and scales? Fish! HalleluYah!

That's not true and is the reason God didn't say only "fish with scales and fins"

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

shrimp have a hard exoskeleton (the shell of the shrimp) which is often transparent and colourless making shrimp difficult to see in the water.

An exoskeleton is not scales.

 

[ewq1938]

An exoskeleton is not scales.

It obviously is scales.

H7193
קשׂקשׂת
qaśqeśeth
kas-keh'-seth
By reduplication from an unused root meaning to shale off as bark; a scale (of a fish); hence a coat of mail (as composed of or covered with jointed plates of metal): - mail, scale.

Shrimps scales are exactly like this just not made of metal. God didn't say only fish, nor did he say only "small scales".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

By sight, by description, by appearance, by shape, function and form,
the exoskeleton of shrimp has never been called scales by anyone,
not Biblically, and not secularly.
Thus
shrimp are not kosher. They are unclean (and not just because they are scavengers full of poisons)

 

[Dkh587]

No he didn't say "fish" so any sea creature that has fins and scales fit the description and scrimp definitely have both.




You made three errors within a 9 word sentence.





That's not true and is the reason God didn't say only "fish with scales and fins"

Let's read it again, this time in KJV

“These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭11:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Anything living thing that does not have fins and scales is unclean and an abomination(detestable) to eat, eg shrimp

What else in the oceans and rivers moves and has fins and scales beside fish, such as tuna, salmon, flounder & trout? Nothing in the ocean has fins and scales except fish that I can think of. Shrimp don't have fins and scales.

 

[ewq1938]

Let's read it again, this time in KJV

“These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭11:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Anything living thing that does not have fins and scales is unclean and an abomination(detestable) to eat, eg shrimp

What else in the oceans and rivers moves and has fins and scales beside fish, such as tuna, salmon, flounder & trout?

SHRIMP!

Nothing in the ocean has fins and scales except fish that I can think of. Shrimp don't have fins and scales.

Repeating that untruth doesn't eventually make it suddenly become true.

 

[JacksBratt]

This passage should clear it up..... It has a dual meaning. One is literal the other is that the gospel is for all mankind, not just the Jewish people or Israelite's.

Having said that, we should be careful as to where our food comes from and keep in mind that the animal may have ingested chemicals and other toxic things that would not be god for our health.

Since our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit we should try to keep a healthy body. This means watching what and how much we eat and staying fit and active.

I laugh at these stereotypical "church ladies" with their rotund bodies condemning the drunkard. Meanwhile, being drunk is just gluttony of the vine and being fat is gluttony of food. They are hypocrites.



Acts 10:9-48King James Version (KJV)

9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:


10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,


11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:


12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.


13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.


14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.


15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.


16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hmmm, maybe a shrimp is a gnat ...

 

[Vicomte13]

Anything living thing that does not have fins and scales is unclean and an abomination(detestable) to eat, eg shrimp

For Hebrews.
In Israel.
Under the old priesthood.

Not for Basques or Celts or Saami, not since the Flood.

 

[Vicomte13]

SHRIMP!
Repeating that untruth doesn't eventually make it suddenly become true.

Since the Flood shrimp have been good food for everybody, bacon too, except for those unfortunate enough to be "Chosen"...to not be allowed to eat bacon or shrimp. Poor them! To be "Chosen" and denied bacon and shrimp sounds less like being blessed, and more like being "It". Just saying...

 

[FireDragon76]

the mosaic laws cannot be rationalized using science... that's not really what they are about. They are a mixture of customs and taboos meant to divide the world into "clean" and "unclean", to preserve a sense of purity and order necessary for communion with God.

 

[Vicomte13]

the mosaic laws cannot be rationalized using science... that's not really what they are about. They are a mixture of customs and taboos meant to divide the world into "clean" and "unclean", to preserve a sense of purity and order necessary for communion with God.

They can be sort of. When God gave the food laws to Moses, he specifically said that if the Hebrews ate this way, he would not afflict them with the diseases they knew in Egypt. And the particularities of the dietary laws, specifically, are quite good at avoiding the key vectors of foodborne illness in a culture with no refrigeration, no medicine, and no germ theory.

Other aspects of the divine cleanliness laws seem to be God specifically identifying sources of sickness of an ignorant people with no germ theory.

But then there's a whole skein of laws that do not refer to hygeine, as such, but to ban the mixing of things. These laws were pretty clearly intended to be a reminder to the Israelites that they were never to mix with the populations they were driving out.

Yes, certainly the division into clean and unclean also had the higher, non-biological purpose of indicating categories of "sacredness" or "set-apartness", but there certainly is a very deep scientific knowledge basis in the food laws - a knowledge that didn't (and couldn't) come from the Israelites of four millennia ago.

 

[FireDragon76]

One good example is that Jews don't mix milk and meat. It has to do with symbols of life and death, so that is a taboo to mix the two. THat taboo of considering dead bodies unclean is also easy to understand, it has to do with separating death and life.

 

[Vicomte13]

One good example is that Jews don't mix milk and meat. It has to do with symbols of life and death, so that is a taboo to mix the two. THat taboo of considering dead bodies unclean is also easy to understand, it has to do with separating death and life.

That's a Jewish tradition and taboo. Scripture nowhere has that rule, only the rule "You shall not boil a kid in his mother's milk." This is not a dietary health restriction but a prohibition of a pagan practice, or perhaps the prohibition of a particularly cruel and ironic practice.

The Jews, in the Pharisaic tradition, made "fences" around the Torah and added a blanket prohibition on mixing meat and milk, which is completely unscriptural and made up out of wholecloth.

Old Jewish joke:

Conversation with G-d and Moshe on top of Mt. Sinai....

G-d: And remember Moshe, in the laws of keeping Kosher, never cook a calf in its mother's milk. It is cruel.
Moshe: Ohhhhhh! So you are saying we should never eat milk and meat together.

G-d: No, what I'm saying is, never cook a calf in its mother's milk.
Moshe: Oh, Lord forgive my ignorance! What you are really saying is we should wait six hours after eating meat to drink milk so the two are not in our stomachs.

G-d: No, Moses, what I'm saying is, don't cook a calf in it's mother's milk!!!
Moshe: Oh, Lord! Please don't strike me down for my stupidity! What you mean is we should have a separate set of dishes for milk and a separate set for meat and if we make a mistake we have to bury that dish in the dirt outside...

G-d: Oh Moses, do whatever the hell you want....

 

[pescador]

One good example is that Jews don't mix milk and meat. It has to do with symbols of life and death, so that is a taboo to mix the two. THat taboo of considering dead bodies unclean is also easy to understand, it has to do with separating death and life.

Is that why, when God's angels visited Abraham, (Genesis 18:8), "He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree."?