Historicity of the change of the Sabbath Commandment

[Meowzltov]

Romans 14:5
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Although I have been keeping actual Sabbath more often, I also attended services on Tuesday and Sunday.

If we want to get technical we better get our Friday night sunset countdown game on too

Me too. As an ethnic Jew, I keep Sabbath on Saturday. As a Christian and a Catholic, I attend Mass on Sunday.

 

[Bob S]

Me too. As an ethnic Jew, I keep Sabbath on Saturday. As a Christian and a Catholic, I attend Mass on Sunday.

Nothing like covering all your bases, but is it necessary? I call, Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching Heb 10:25, the the rule which I am happy to live by. Where some are gathered in the name of Jesus studying His Word and not some so called guru's ideas I will join in and celebrate in song and worship. Wise is the person who has fortified himself with the Holy Spirit as his guide to real truth and can discern the difference.

 

[Meowzltov]

Nothing like covering all your bases, but is it necessary?

Going to church is necessary.

Do I need to keep the law and Jewish traditions? It depends on whether I want to honor my Jewish identity. Not all Jews do. Some Jews assimilate, which is a nice way of saying they "become Gentiles." Blech! Just like a Gentile doesn't have to become a Jew when they become a Christian, in the same way a Jew doesn't have to become a Gentile. So I will remain a Jew, which means I will keep the law and traditions, not to go to heaven, but simply out of love for God, and just to do Jewish stuff.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 14:5
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Although I have been keeping actual Sabbath more often, I also attended services on Tuesday and Sunday.

If we want to get technical we better get our Friday night sunset countdown game on too

Rom 14 has an "inserted word" the word "alike" as almost every Bible translation will indicate to its readers via the italics.

The actual text says "while another esteems EVERY day." Then the text says that by "esteem" it means "observe" - - "the one who OBSERVES the day observes it unto the Lord .. the one who does not OBSERVE the day does so unto the Lord" -- Rom 14 speaking of the Lev 23 annual holy days.

By contrast in Galatians 4 - Paul condemns the "observance" of even ONE of the pagan days.

In the OT Isaiah 66:23 states explicitly that the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" in Is 66:23
In Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- Adam and Eve.
In Mark 2:27 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
In Rev 14:7 it is all mankind that is called to worship God who "created the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" - a quote from the Sabbath commandment
in Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people God" actually quotes the Sabbath Commandment and says it 'remains' just as it was in Psalms 95.
In Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".
In 56:1-8 the Gentiles are singled out and specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.
James 2 points specifically to the TEN Commandments and says that the common element that would make us "guilty of all" is based on "He who said" -- and as it turns out God said all ten of them not just nine.
In Eph 6:2 - the entire unit of TEN is being identified when the text says "Honor thy father and mother for this is the FIRST commandment with a promise" -- that requires a specific unit of Law -- and is only true of the TEN.
Ex 20:8-11 it is BOTH Israel AND the gentile that "stays within their gates" that is bound to keep the Sabbath.
In Acts 18:4 both Gentiles AND Jews are worshiping "every Sabbath" so also in Acts 17:1-4 so also in Acts 13.

In your own statement you admit that the Jews would have known that the TEN Commandments - including the 4th Commandment were included in the "LAW of God" - so then when Jeremiah says that the NEW Covenant includes God writing His "LAW on our heart and mind" both Jeremiah and HIS readers would have known that it was sin to violate the Sabbath and that the 4th Commandment was included in God's moral LAW

 

[Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors]

Rom 14 has an "inserted word" the word "alike" as almost every Bible translation will indicate to its readers via the italics.

The actual text says "while another esteems EVERY day." Then the text says that by "esteem" it means "observe" - - "the one who OBSERVES the day observes it unto the Lord .. the one who does not OBSERVE the day does so unto the Lord" -- Rom 14 speaking of the Lev 23 annual holy days.

By contrast in Galatians 4 - Paul condemns the "observance" of even ONE of the pagan days.

In the OT Isaiah 66:23 states explicitly that the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" in Is 66:23
In Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- Adam and Eve.
In Mark 2:27 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
In Rev 14:7 it is all mankind that is called to worship God who "created the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" - a quote from the Sabbath commandment
in Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people God" actually quotes the Sabbath Commandment and says it 'remains' just as it was in Psalms 95.
In Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".
In 56:1-8 the Gentiles are singled out and specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.
James 2 points specifically to the TEN Commandments and says that the common element that would make us "guilty of all" is based on "He who said" -- and as it turns out God said all ten of them not just nine.
In Eph 6:2 - the entire unit of TEN is being identified when the text says "Honor thy father and mother for this is the FIRST commandment with a promise" -- that requires a specific unit of Law -- and is only true of the TEN.
Ex 20:8-11 it is BOTH Israel AND the gentile that "stays within their gates" that is bound to keep the Sabbath.
In Acts 18:4 both Gentiles AND Jews are worshiping "every Sabbath" so also in Acts 17:1-4 so also in Acts 13.

In your own statement you admit that the Jews would have known that the TEN Commandments - including the 4th Commandment were included in the "LAW of God" - so then when Jeremiah says that the NEW Covenant includes God writing His "LAW on our heart and mind" both Jeremiah and HIS readers would have known that it was sin to violate the Sabbath and that the 4th Commandment was included in God's moral LAW

I keep the Sabbath.
It also says at the bottom of that portion I quoted that The Lord has welcomed them both ....The One who esteems One or All.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 14 is talking about the yearly feast days of Lev 23 in its "one or all" some observed one - others all of them.

But Gal 4 - condemns even one observance of a pagan annual or monthly holy time/day.

This thread is about the weekly Sabbath and the historic events that attempted to change it from the 7th day to the first.

 

[Travis93]

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day.

Why did he say this if the sabbath was to be abolished?

 

[Bob S]

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day.

Why did he say this if the sabbath was to be abolished?

Very easy to answer that one. If they had to leave on the Sabbath the gates would be locked by the Jews and they couldn't get out of the walled city.

 

[Bob S]

Rom 14 has an "inserted word" the word "alike" as almost every Bible translation will indicate to its readers via the italics.

The actual text says "while another esteems EVERY day." Then the text says that by "esteem" it means "observe" - - "the one who OBSERVES the day observes it unto the Lord .. the one who does not OBSERVE the day does so unto the Lord" -- Rom 14 speaking of the Lev 23 annual holy days.

Please, I really would like a Bible reference that indicates that the 23 annual Holy days were what Paul was referring to.

 

[Bob S]

I keep the Sabbath.
It also says at the bottom of that portion I quoted that The Lord has welcomed them both ....The One who esteems One or All.

Why do you "keep"* the Sabbath? Paul tells us the Sabbath was a shadow and the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our rest. I do not "keep"* Sabbath because it is a shadow and I don't chase things that are not real. Paul also tells us that the 10 Commandments which the weekly Sabbath was part of was temporary. 2Cor 3:7-11.

God has never asked any other nation except Israel to observe any day. If the Sabbath was made for all men then why hasn't God ever revealed it to anyone else? Why did Paul write that the 10 commandments were temporary laws? Simple, when the covenant was broken because God finally had enough of Israel's actions, He removed the covenant and the land of Israel was no longer theirs to use. Actually God never gave Canaan to Israel, He only gave it to them to use. The covenant does not exist, therefore the laws of the covenant do not exist. You are worshiping a shadow my friend.

*"keep" Keep is a misnomer. No one actually keeps Sabbath. Israelites were not even to think their own thoughts on the the Israelite holy days. They were to turn their feet from doing their own pleasure. They were limited as to how far they could even walk . Those who disobeyed should have come under condemnation by stoning. The problem was all of them broke it. There was no one righteous enough to carry out the act. What makes anyone who thinks they must observe a shadow think they can keep it any better than the Israelites could? Thank God Christians are not subject to the laws given only to Israel.

 

[Travis93]

Paul continued to keep the law until the end, many years after Jesus died.
Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Ceaser, have I offended at anything at all.

 

[BobRyan]

Me too. As an ethnic Jew, I keep Sabbath on Saturday. As a Christian and a Catholic, I attend Mass on Sunday.

Go to the 19Min:30Sec point at this video link for an enlightening 5 min segment stating that the RCC changed the Sabbath to week-day-1

 

[BobRyan]

[quote="Bob S, post: 69862950, member: 38283 ] Why do you "keep"* the Sabbath? Paul tells us the Sabbath was a shadow

[/quote]

only the annual feast day Sabbaths based in animal sacrifices pointing to the death of Christ.

God has never asked any other nation except Israel to observe any day. If the Sabbath was made for all men then why hasn't God ever revealed it to anyone else?

"The Sabbath was made for MANKIND" - Mark 2:27
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
"there REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4 -- "remains" from the times of Ps 95. Still to this day

Why did Paul write that the 10 commandments were temporary laws?

He didn't so you merely "quote you" to make up the lack of Bible fact to support your wild speculation.

God said "Remember the Sabbath day to KEEP it Holy..." Ex 20:8-11

*"keep" Keep is a misnomer. No one actually keeps Sabbath.

;

Romans 8:4-9 says only the lost are stuck in a spot where they "do not submit to the Law of God -- neither indeed CAN they be subjected to it"

 

[Bob S]

Paul continued to keep the law until the end, many years after Jesus died.
Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Ceaser, have I offended at anything at all.

That is outright misleading Travis. You ripped that verse out of context and it certainly does not do anything to help others to see truth.

 

[Bob S]

Bob Ryan, I guess you are in that shunning mode, but the lurkers and I would like to know where you came up with this: Romans 14 is talking about the yearly feast days of Lev 23 in its "one or all" some observed one - others all of them

"Please, I really would like a Bible reference that indicates that the 23 annual Holy days were what Paul was referring to."

 

[BobRyan]

Paul continued to keep the law until the end, many years after Jesus died.
Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Ceaser, have I offended at anything at all.

Amen! well stated.

 

[bugkiller]

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day.

Why did he say this if the sabbath was to be abolished?

Who is Jesus talking to and about what?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Bob Ryan, I guess you are in that shunning mode, but the lurkers and I would like to know where you came up with this: Romans 14 is talking about the yearly feast days of Lev 23 in its "one or all" some observed one - others all of them

"Please, I really would like a Bible reference that indicates that the 23 annual Holy days were what Paul was referring to."

As I have stated dozens of times in that regard - Paul condemns even one observation of a pagan holy day in Galatians 4. And approves all of the Bible-approved holy days in Rom 14 where we find that one man observes one of them above the others while another observes them all "he who observes the day observes the day unto the Lord" Rom 14.

Thus in Rom 14 Paul cannot be approving the observance of all pagan days and all Bible approved days - because he is quick to condemn observance of the pagan days in Gal 4.

 

[BobRyan]

Who is Jesus talking to and about what?

bugkiller

Christians -- followers of Christ.

For those who choose to follow the teaching of Christ instead of ignore it.

 

[BobRyan]

could not add to OP - but here is great reference material ---

EWTN video added -- go to the 19min:30sec point of the video for about 5 minutes of on-topic commentary.