Historicity of the change of the Sabbath Commandment

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... Or deny how the spread of Christianity was by force and not genuine love of people wanting to come to Christ.

Whenever in any country or place,
anyone was told "become Christian or die"
they don't become Christians,
they become either actors, or dead. (at least, that's what happened as far as I know).
So, throughout history (as verified millions/ billions of times)
in line with all of Scripture,
there were a lot dead, and a lot of actors.
Nothing has changed, really, has it ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Wouldn't your think that somewhere we would be inspired to observe it by even one of the writers of New Testament scripture?

Yhwh

 

[Meowzltov]

Whenever in any country or place,
anyone was told "become Christian or die"
they don't become Christians,
they become either actors, or dead. (at least, that's what happened as far as I know).
So, throughout history (as verified millions/ billions of times)
in line with all of Scripture,
there were a lot dead, and a lot of actors.
Nothing has changed, really, has it ?

There was only one time Christianity was spread by the sword, and that was the conversion of the Saxons by Charlemagne.

Yes, many of them converted rather than died.

 

[bugkiller]

Dear Brother or Sister in Christ,
I was reading this post about SDA and her heresies, I know you are not trying to hurt anyone's feelings and that I believe is very honorable. Some of my favorite people are Catholic so I want to say this very lovingly. The SDA church does not have it all figured out, but the Catholic and the Protestant Churches have their fair share of heresies. Below I have posted some historical information if you would like to review the totality of the information, I provided a link. I only pasted up to the 4th century, it gets even worse in the Dark ages and continuing in the 19-20 century leading to the holocaust. I am trying to say this as lovingly as possible, I think all Christians should review the their denomination's history before they throw stones at another denomination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_antisemitism

A number of early and influential Church works — such as the dialogues of Justin Martyr, the homilies of John Chrysostom, and the testimonies of church father Cyprian — are strongly anti-Jewish.

During a discussion on the celebration of Easter during the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE, Roman emperor Constantine said,

...it appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy feast we should follow the practice of the Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous sin, and are, therefore, deservedly afflicted with blindness of soul. (...) Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd; for we have received from our Saviour a different way.[11]

Prejudice against Jews in the Roman Empire was formalized in 438, when the Code of Theodosius II established Christianity as the only legal religion in the Roman Empire. The Justinian Code a century later stripped Jews of many of their rights, and Church councils throughout the 6th and 7th century, including the Council of Orleans, further enforced anti-Jewish provisions. These restrictions began as early as 305, when, in Elvira, (now Granada), a Spanish town in Andalucia, the first known laws of any church council against Jews appeared. Christian women were forbidden to marry Jews unless the Jew first converted to Catholicism. Jews were forbidden to extend hospitality to Catholics. Jews could not keep Catholic Christian concubines and were forbidden to bless the fields of Catholics. In 589, in Catholic Iberia, the Third Council of Toledo ordered that children born of marriage between Jews and Catholic be baptized by force. By the Twelfth Council of Toledo (681) a policy of forced conversion of all Jews was initiated (Liber Judicum, II.2 as given in Roth).[12] Thousands fled, and thousands of others converted to Roman Catholicism.

I don't have a clue what this has to do with the thread. The thread isn't about Judaism.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

Yet many think their true roots came from the apostles. There have been many threads showing Xmas & Easter was a RCC invention and not anything the apostles celebrated, yet many disagree and say all sources are lies just copying each others lies. Or deny how the spread of Christianity was by force and not genuine love of people wanting to come to Christ.

1John2:4 said: ↑
Dear Brother or Sister in Christ,
I was reading this post about SDA and her heresies, I know you are not trying to hurt anyone's feelings and that I believe is very honorable. Some of my favorite people are Catholic so I want to say this very lovingly. The SDA church does not have it all figured out, but the Catholic and the Protestant Churches have their fair share of heresies. Below I have posted some historical information if you would like to review the totality of the information, I provided a link. I only pasted up to the 4th century, it gets even worse in the Dark ages and continuing in the 19-20 century leading to the holocaust. I am trying to say this as lovingly as possible, I think all Christians should review the their denomination's history before they throw stones at another denomination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_antisemitism

A number of early and influential Church works — such as the dialogues of Justin Martyr, the homilies of John Chrysostom, and the testimonies of church father Cyprian — are strongly anti-Jewish.

During a discussion on the celebration of Easter during the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE, Roman emperor Constantine said,

...it appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy feast we should follow the practice of the Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous sin, and are, therefore, deservedly afflicted with blindness of soul. (...) Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd; for we have received from our Saviour a different way.[11]

Prejudice against Jews in the Roman Empire was formalized in 438, when the Code of Theodosius II established Christianity as the only legal religion in the Roman Empire. The Justinian Code a century later stripped Jews of many of their rights, and Church councils throughout the 6th and 7th century, including the Council of Orleans, further enforced anti-Jewish provisions. These restrictions began as early as 305, when, in Elvira, (now Granada), a Spanish town in Andalucia, the first known laws of any church council against Jews appeared. Christian women were forbidden to marry Jews unless the Jew first converted to Catholicism. Jews were forbidden to extend hospitality to Catholics. Jews could not keep Catholic Christian concubines and were forbidden to bless the fields of Catholics. In 589, in Catholic Iberia, the Third Council of Toledo ordered that children born of marriage between Jews and Catholic be baptized by force. By the Twelfth Council of Toledo (681) a policy of forced conversion of all Jews was initiated (Liber Judicum, II.2 as given in Roth).[12] Thousands fled, and thousands of others converted to Roman Catholicism.

I notice that you both are Messianic. Do you really believe you are free from heresies if you have bought into all their beliefs?.

I choose not to "belong". I have been there and done that. I am free in Christ and I carry no baggage from some well intentioned king fish. I claim the promises, fellowship with all Christians, have a personal relationship with Jesus and am strictly a New Testament Christian. I do not "keep" days or any other ritual that God gave only to Israel.

 

[bugkiller]

I notice that you both are Messianic. Do you really believe you are free from heresies if you have bought into all their beliefs?.

I choose not to "belong". I have been there and done that. I am free in Christ and I carry no baggage from some well intentioned king fish. I claim the promises, fellowship with all Christians, have a personal relationship with Jesus and am strictly a New Testament Christian. I do not "keep" days or any other ritual that God gave only to Israel.

Ditto for me. I chose to say non denominational to show no allegiance to organized religion. I am a Christian (born-again and-blood bought).

bugkiller

 

[Meowzltov]

I notice that you both are Messianic. Do you really believe you are free from heresies if you have bought into all their beliefs?.

I choose not to "belong". I have been there and done that. I am free in Christ and I carry no baggage from some well intentioned king fish. I claim the promises, fellowship with all Christians, have a personal relationship with Jesus and am strictly a New Testament Christian. I do not "keep" days or any other ritual that God gave only to Israel.

Are you Jewish? If you are not Jewish, why were you ever Messianic to begin with? If you are Jewish, why would you act Gentile? Those questions are not accusations... I'm generalizing and there are exceptions to rules, so I'm curious.

 

[SAAN]

I notice that you both are Messianic. Do you really believe you are free from heresies if you have bought into all their beliefs?.

I choose not to "belong". I have been there and done that. I am free in Christ and I carry no baggage from some well intentioned king fish. I claim the promises, fellowship with all Christians, have a personal relationship with Jesus and am strictly a New Testament Christian. I do not "keep" days or any other ritual that God gave only to Israel.

Im not Messianic, non denominational. I dont follow the Talmud and I go to church on Sunday, but I have opened my eyes to all I have been taught to see if it is in line with the bible vs I have been taught by someone from theology school.

If you claim to be a New Testament Christian, that means you have a relationship with Jesus and dont have one with God, because you are to be a biblical Christian which is the entire bible, not disregard 66% of it. You dont keep days or rituals that God gave to Israel, even though the New Covenant and all the commands are to Israel, but im sure you keep all the days and rituals that the RCC gave to man and follow them strictly.

 

[1John2:4]

I notice that you both are Messianic. Do you really believe you are free from heresies if you have bought into all their beliefs?.

I choose not to "belong". I have been there and done that. I am free in Christ and I carry no baggage from some well intentioned king fish. I claim the promises, fellowship with all Christians, have a personal relationship with Jesus and am strictly a New Testament Christian. I do not "keep" days or any other ritual that God gave only to Israel.

I don't think anyone is free from deception (heresies), none of us are immune to Satan's trap, we should make sure that we are good Bereans and test everything to the whole Word of God.

Do you practice Christmas, Easter and Sunday tradition?

 

[Bob S]

Are you Jewish?

Only by birth and then only 1/2.

If you are not Jewish, why were you ever Messianic to begin with?

I became a Seventh-day Adventist and stayed one for 40 years.

If you are Jewish, why would you act Gentile? Those questions are not accusations... I'm generalizing and there are exceptions to rules, so I'm curious.

Ask away. I am a believer and follow the New Testament. The Holy Spirit is my guide. Old covenant rituals are history. Jesus is reality.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

(just in passing , Bob S., I hope joyfully and honestly you mean you follow Jesus(yes, Jesus, Himself)
which is complete in line and harmony with all the Scripture ,
but
saying I follow (the NT) or (the OT) or (republican) or (democrat)
doesn't mean someone follows Jesus. )
It's not nitpicking - it's life and death difference between "letter of the law that kills" and "spirit of the law that brings life".

 

[Bob S]

Im not Messianic, non denominational. I dont follow the Talmud and I go to church on Sunday, but I have opened my eyes to all I have been taught to see if it is in line with the bible vs I have been taught by someone from theology school.

I also opened my eyes and allowed the Holy Spirit to guide me to the real truth. He opened my eyes to 1Jn3:19-24.

If you claim to be a New Testament Christian, that means you have a relationship with Jesus and dont have one with God,

Who on God's green earth told you that? What happened to:
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.” Are you trying to indicate that Jesus is not God?

because you are to be a biblical Christian which is the entire bible, not disregard 66% of it.

Someone has really done a number on you my friend. The old Testament is full of great lessons. It is part of the Holy Writ. That does not mean I am bound to laws that only pertained to Israel. I live by the new and better covenant. The old one has passed. The new one is unlike the one given only to Israel

You dont keep days or rituals that God gave to Israel, even though the New Covenant and all the commands are to Israel,

Who told you that? Jesus gave the command to go to all nations of the world and spread the good news

but im sure you keep all the days and rituals that the RCC gave to man and follow them strictly.

Why are you writing you are sure, you don't know me. I know all that you mentioned are not found in scripture, but think about it, what is wrong with honoring Jesus birth? What is wrong with celebrating Jesus resurrection? Why do people try to make something dirty when it really is wonderful? Didn't Jesus tell us:
Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Doesn't the church have the choice or privilege to honor their God? Why do you think Christians are obligated to observe ritual laws given only to Israel? I personally do not believe we are, in any way, obligated to observe Sunday, Christmas, Easter or any man made ritual, but come my friend how about letting others live as long as they are not trampling on others.

 

[Bob S]

(just in passing , Bob S., I hope joyfully and honestly you mean you follow Jesus(yes, Jesus, Himself)
which is complete in line and harmony with all the Scripture ,
but
saying I follow (the NT) or (the OT) or (republican) or (democrat)
doesn't mean someone follows Jesus. )
It's not nitpicking - it's life and death difference between "letter of the law that kills" and "spirit of the law that brings life".

You make a claim, but it sure looks like you are. The old covenant is great history. The new covenant is reality. You cannot be loyal to both. Either choose Jesus or Moses. Moses ended at the Cross.

 

[BobRyan]

Since the term "Catholic" is being used in this thread in discussion of the "historicity' of the change of the Sabbath commandment --


=======================================

the Catechism of the Catholic Church sections 2168 to 2173 (for the Sabbath) and sections 2174 to 2188 (for the Lord's day).

Catholic Catechism -

2168 - 2173 admits the Lord's Day is Sabbath as given by God in the actual Bible -

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.


2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29


(Application in James 2)

2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.

sections 2168 to 2173
I. The Sabbath Day
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the Sabbath: "The seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the Sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep The Sabbath day."94

God declares the Sabbath to be the Lord's Day in that 2170 example - taken from Deut 5. And of course we find that same thing in Isaiah 58 - the Sabbath, the Lord's Day.

Keeping the Sabbath
Is 58
13 “If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,



sections 2174 to 2188

2174-2188 includes this "bending action" for the Sabbath.

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.[/quote]

They are having to describe the one event of the resurrection as a "bent sabbath" because they need the Sabbath's "weekly cycle" and they don't have Jesus resurrected "once a week" nor a 7 day crucifixion nor a 7 day-in-the-grave etc.

They have ONE Birth of Christ and ONE death of Christ. But nothing of a 7 day nature for either one.

So they NEED the creation WEEK Sabbath cycle of 7 days - to "bend" -- to get this as a weekly event.[/QUOTE]

 

[BobRyan]

Since not "all" on this thread posting opposition to God's Commandments are catholic --



-----------------------------------------
Non-Catholic Scholars join with the Catholic claim that the TEN Commandments - all TEN - are binding on all mankind - still to this very day.
================================================
QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 67029849, member: 235244"]So then what would be an example of such pro-Sunday scholarship that pertains to the 7 point summary list just posted?

Here we have section 19 of the Westminster - and of course you already have a few posts of mine quoting the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19

"Westminster Confession of Faith"

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God​

I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;l and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

​

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[BobRyan]

Since some folks on this thread would care about the Word of God -- no matter if they are Catholic or not ...

==========================================

Can New Covenant saints afford to ignore this??

Rev 14:12 - "the saints KEEP The Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His Commandments are not grievous.


1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Lev 19:18)
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

or this --??

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty


or this?

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.





----or this?

Jer 31:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”


Heb 8
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete

or this ---


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31



1John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


John says -
Rev 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.(KJV)

Christ said

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

or this - ??
Exodus 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.



or this??

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10



====================================== if so then consider this -

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

"First commandment" in WHAT unit of LAW ?? The unit that includes the Sabbath.

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

Rom 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the Law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. [/QUOTE]

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... I ... follow the New Testament.

This was what you posted I was referring to. (your reply didn't answer).
All of God's Word is absolutely true,
but if anyone just follows it as if a rule book, as if "good guide", without Jesus (even denying Jesus), then Jesus says it won't do them any good.
So I merely asked for clarification,
do you follow Jesus with the NT as His Word (which it is),
or
do you follow the NT (along with any other writings, OT or otherwise), without Jesus ?
(a lot of churches do that; so clarification is helpful)

 

[BobRyan]

This was what you posted I was referring to. (your reply didn't answer).
All of God's Word is absolutely true,
but if anyone just follows it as if a rule book, as if "good guide", without Jesus (even denying Jesus), then Jesus says it won't do them any good.
So I merely asked for clarification,
do you follow Jesus with the NT as His Word (which it is),
or
do you follow the NT (along with any other writings, OT or otherwise), without Jesus ?
(a lot of churches do that; so clarification is helpful)

My Bible has 66 books in it.

Some have taken that - chopped it up and left themselves with 27 which they then chopped out the Gospel of 4 books because those books pertain to teaching of Christ before the cross... leaving themselves with a 23 book Bible - and condemned in the last chapter of Revelation.

 

[Bob S]

This was what you posted I was referring to. (your reply didn't answer).

I am sorry I don't know what you want me to say.

All of God's Word is absolutely true,

Do you believe I deny that?

but if anyone just follows it as if a rule book, as if "good guide", without Jesus (even denying Jesus), then Jesus says it won't do them any good.

Are you insinuating.....?

So I merely asked for clarification,
do you follow Jesus with the NT as His Word (which it is),
or
do you follow the NT (along with any other writings, OT or otherwise), without Jesus ?
(a lot of churches do that; so clarification is helpful)

Have you even bothered to read my posts? If you had you wouldn't be asking such questions.

I am tired of being interrogated, refute what I write if you are able, but stop with the interrogation already.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Have you even bothered to read my posts? If you had you wouldn't be asking such questions.

From some of your other posts, I simply expected you followed Jesus.
Now, since you said otherwise, I don't think so anymore.
LIke I said, I was seeking verification/ clarity.