Annihilationism

[Hieronymus]

No wonder people don't discern between Allah and YHWH.

 

[DTate98]

No wonder people despise God and ignore the Word.
No person with a little love and kindness in their hearts can live with the traditional view, only sociopaths can.
Let's combine it with predestination, which is Biblical too.
Then God created many people just to burn in hell eternally.
And if you have a problem with that, if that prohibits you to acknowledge, let alone love God, you're gonna end up there too.
And if you somehow are still a Christian, you'll have to somehow justify that many of the people that you love (as the Law of Christ prescribes) will be tortured consciously eternally.

Even the fallen angels lost their eternity, and will die just like unsaved man.

It seems we cannot come to an agreement. But calling traditionalists "sociopaths" is wrong. I believe in the traditionalist view because why would Hell exist if all it did was burn up and kill sinners? It would be a pointless land of fire when God could just as easily erase them from existence with a thought. And if annihilationism is true, then where would the dead go after the second death? They would be given rest, which is not given to sinners as stated in Revelation 14:11 "...And they have no rest, day or night, who worship the beast and his image."

 

[DTate98]

So that's why He keeps unrepentant sinners alive forever?

Yes, because that is the cost of sin. To simply be wiped from existence would be mercy from Hell and the Lake of Fire

 

[StanJ]

Now here is a statement from Romans 2:
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile
Can you explain to us all how this text can possibly be read as entailing a judgement on Israel, and not on every Jew and Gentile who has ever lived?
Please: no insults, no "go read the links"; just simply please provide an answer to this very clear, simple question.

I have tried a couple of times and it has done absolutely no good so trying to do so another time will accomplish the same results. Sorry you're just not predisposed to hear what scripture has to say when it goes against your belief.

 

[Hieronymus]

Yes, because that is the cost of sin.

The wages of sin is death.

 

[StanJ]

Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them.

The second Resurrection happens shortly thereafter in Revelation 20:12-13. They're called the dead because they were not part of the first resurrection but the fact that verse 12 says they're standing indicates that they are in physical form. Verse 14 says that death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and as such become part of the Lake of Fire. When all those from the second Resurrection are throwing into Lake of Fire that becomes their second death which Believers don't experience because they have eternal life. The second death is the death of those resurrected bodies not the death of their spirits which throughout the Bible has always been showing to be indestructible as being part of God and not just the life force that is in all living matter. Job 32:8

 

[Hieronymus]

It seems we cannot come to an agreement. But calling traditionalists "sociopaths" is wrong. I believe in the traditionalist view because why would Hell exist if all it did was burn up and kill sinners?

So you think they deserve to be consciously eternally tortured for no purpose.
Sounds pretty sick to me...

 

[StanJ]

The wages of sin is death.

That's right, and it only relates to the body not the spirit.

 

[StanJ]

So you think they deserve to be consciously eternally tortured for no purpose.
Sounds pretty sick to me...

First of all they are tormented not tortured and the torment is self-inflicted because they realize they could have had eternal life at that time.
Believing what the Bible says is a matter of faith not a matter of personal affirmation. Most Christians will agree that God is beyond our comprehension but then when issues like this go beyond our comprehension we simply talk and say this is sick. How exactly is it any sicker than all of the things that happened in the Old Testament to people? It is obvious as Paul said that now we see darkly as if in a mirror but then we will know as we have been known. Faith always comes before knowledge and if one cannot faithfully accept what the Bible says then one will never have the knowledge that follows faith.

 

[Hieronymus]

Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them.

The second Resurrection happens shortly thereafter in Revelation 20:12-13. They're called the dead because they were not part of the first resurrection but the fact that verse 12 says they're standing indicates that they are in physical form. Verse 14 says that death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and as such become part of the Lake of Fire. When all those from the second Resurrection are throwing into Lake of Fire that becomes their second death which Believers don't experience because they have eternal life. The second death is the death of those resurrected bodies not the death of their spirits which throughout the Bible has always been showing to be indestructible as being part of God and not just the life force that is in all living matter. Job 32:8

That's not correct.
God can kill the soul too, that's why we should fear Him, not the devil, who can only kill the body.
Job 32:8 refers to inspiration of the Almighty.

 

[StanJ]

That's not correct.
God can kill the soul too, that's why we should fear Him, not the devil, who can only kill the body.
Job 32:8 refers to inspiration of the Almighty.

Yes God can do anything but no where in the scripture does it say that he does do that.
I think you'll find and drove 32 that it's more than that if you read it all in context. Job 34:13-15 is another place you'll find that the spirit is indestructible and it is the body that is destroyed and returns to dust, but even then it will not always remain there.

 

[StanJ]

<Staff Edit>

Your deliberate, blatant falsehood here is this statement "They claim that the wages of sin is eternal life in hell."

There is indeed, which is why the English language has different words with different connotations. The key is to find out what the Greek word conveys and then translated into English which has already been done for those who read English translations.

 

[DTate98]

So you think they deserve to be consciously eternally tortured for no purpose.
Sounds pretty sick to me...

Tortured for no reason? You've got to be kidding me. You think people go to Hell because God just felt like it or something? Eternal torment in Hell is the punishment for unrepentant sin. If you think that's excessive, then you're wrong. Think about it this way. God is perfect, he knows all, and he is to be obeyed without exception. We fail to obey Him everyday. We deserve to suffer in Hell for the rest of eternity, every single one of us. Because we are all just small specks of dirt, rebelling against an infinite and perfect creator, thinking we should have control over ourselves. But instead of destroying us without mercy, he gave us a second chance. He allowed us to come to the Son for salvation. We don't even choose salvation, we are chosen by God, so that we could have peace with Him in Heaven. But many still choose to go their own way and spit in the face of God. Don't you think that deserves eternal suffering in Hell?

 

[Hieronymus]

Yes God can do anything but no where in the scripture does it say that he does do that.

Why do you suppose it is mentioned like that?
(i'm sorry, i don't have the Scripture location at hand.)

 

[Hieronymus]

Tortured for no reason?

NO PURPOSE.

 

[Hieronymus]

There is indeed, which is why the English language has different words with different connotations.

It implies the same in this case.

 

[Der Alte]

Yes, and all of it has to do with death and destruction, but still you hold on to eternal life in hell?
(or did i misunderstand you?)

Did you read my entire post? When a person dies after being bitten by snakes, drowns, is killed by a falling tower, when gold tarnishes, a flower fades, wine is spilled, food spoils is that the same thing as the complete annihilation which supposedly happens to sinners at the final judgment? The Greek word apollumi occurs 86 times in the NT, of this 71 times, 83%, it cannot mean the destruction/annihilation which some argue supposedly occurs at the final judgment. I don't think e.g. wine being spilled or a person dying of snake bite means the same thing as a person being totally annihilated, no longer existing, if you can show me that it does then I will agree with you.

 

[Hieronymus]

The traditional view stems from a time when the church repressed people.
it keeps them scared and obedient.
A loveless faith.

 

[Hieronymus]

Did you read my entire post? When a person dies after being bitten by snakes, drowns, is killed by a falling tower, when gold tarnishes, a flower fades, wine is spilled, food spoils is that the same thing as the complete annihilation which supposedly happens to sinners at the final judgment? The Greek word apollumi occurs 86 times in the NT, of this 71 times, 83%, it cannot mean the destruction/annihilation which some argue supposedly occurs at the final judgment. I don't think e.g. wine being spilled or a person dying of snake bite means the same thing as a person being totally annihilated, no longer existing, if you can show me that it does then I will agree with you.

You all seem to be unable to understand the meaning of the opposed terms: life and death.
You concoct ambiguous lines of thought to have death not be death.
It's as if you WANT it to be so that the unsaved will be conscious eternally while suffering.
The purpose of that is not there either.

<Staff Edit>

 

[DTate98]

NO PURPOSE.

The difference?

You're ignoring my point.