Dogs were domesticated not once, but twice

[DogmaHunter]

In Genesis Chapter One we see that man was told to: "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth". Interesting that the KJV people uses the word: "replenish" suggesting that there was something here before that needed replenished. We call these people hunter gathers and they domesticated hunting dogs.

Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden 6,000 years ago. They also had domecticated dogs that they used for herding their animals. Somewhere along the way someone figured out that they did not have to travel around chasing the animals. They could pen the animals in and this is when farming began. Adam and Eve had two sons. Cain and Able. One took care of the plants and the other took care of the animals.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160602151723.htm

Farming begin much longer ago then 6000 years.

 

[Armoured]

Also I have overwhelming scientific evidence to show that Adam and Eve were real people and that the Garden in Eden was a real place.

Feel free to share it just any time.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Feel free to share it just any time.

I have shared this many times in other posts. We have the DNA evidence for example. Actually a lot of the research on "Jewish" DNA is more geared toward health and medicine because there is so much inbreeding and they have a lot of Genetic diseases to deal with. Also we have Archeology. The Bible gives the EXACT Genealogy from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to David. Noah's father could have known Adam because they were both alive for a short period of time. The point is that all five of the Patriarchs were REAL people. Of course David lives a lot closer having lived only 3,000 years ago, so there is going to be more artifact evidence that David was a real person. Moses left us a lot of books that gives us a lot of insight into his life. For example the time he got into an argument with his wife and sent her home to her father. Or the time he got into an argument with his sister because his wife was a foreigner. When you read the Bible you start to get a feel for real people that you just do not get when you read books of fiction about people that are not real. Some say that: Truth is Stranger then Fiction. We are told that: the IRS knows real numbers from fake numbers. If you turn in a tax return using fake numbers the computer will spit it out and you will be investigated. In the same way we can use computer algorithms to establish just how accurate and truthful our Bible really is. Maybe skeptics scoffers and infidels do not know the difference between real and fake people. If that is the case then the people in the Bible are what Jung calls archetypes and that has even more significance for us and our lives. All the more an archetype is an example we should learn from. Still the people in the Bible are very real in all their human weakness and the challenges they had to overcome.

Again God established a covenant with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and David. These are real people and the story they tell is an important story to learn. Just as much today as ever. If you want to say they are not real people then they are still an archetype and that means their story is all the more important to learn and a vital part of our education.

http://www.soulcraft.co/essays/the_12_common_archetypes.html

 

[Armoured]

I have shared this many times in other posts. We have the DNA evidence for example. Actually a lot of the research on "Jewish" DNA is more geared toward health and medicine because there is so much inbreeding and they have a lot of Genetic diseases to deal with. Also we have Archeology. The Bible gives the EXACT Genealogy from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to David. Noah's father could have known Adam because they were both alive for a short period of time. The point is that all five of the Patriarchs were REAL people. Of course David lives a lot closer having lived only 3,000 years ago, so there is going to be more artifact evidence that David was a real person. Moses left us a lot of books that gives us a lot of insight into his life. For example the time he got into an argument with his wife and sent her home to her father. Or the time he got into an argument with his sister because his wife was a foreigner. When you read the Bible you start to get a feel for real people that you just do not get when you read books of fiction about people that are not real. Some say that: Truth is Stranger then Fiction. We are told that: the IRS knows real numbers from fake numbers. If you turn in a tax return using fake numbers the computer will spit it out and you will be investigated. In the same way we can use computer algorithms to establish just how accurate and truthful our Bible really is. Maybe skeptics scoffers and infidels do not know the difference between real and fake people. If that is the case then the people in the Bible are what Jung calls archetypes and that has even more significance for us and our lives. All the more an archetype is an example we should learn from. Still the people in the Bible are very real in all their human weakness and the challenges they had to overcome.

Again God established a covenant with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and David. These are real people and the story they tell is an important story to learn. Just as much today as ever. If you want to say they are not real people then they are still an archetype and that means their story is all the more important to learn and a vital part of our education.

http://www.soulcraft.co/essays/the_12_common_archetypes.html

Saying "we have Jewish DNA" doesn't prove anything else you've said there.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Farming begin much longer ago then 6000 years.

Yes, evolution is like a movie. The Bible is like a camera that takes photos and records a moment in time. For me a day in the Bible is 1,000 years. So the Bible began around 12,900 (12,971) years ago when we have a nanodiamond comet that we can use as a maker. Just like at the end of the Church age we can use the Friday the 13 as a marker. (2029)

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/13may_2004mn4/

 

[Armoured]

Yes, evolution is like a movie. The Bible is like a camera that takes photos and records a moment in time. For me a day in the Bible is 1,000 years. So the Bible began around 12,900 (12,971) years ago when we have a nanodiamond comet that we can use as a maker. Just like at the end of the Church age we can use the Friday the 13 as a marker. (2029)

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/13may_2004mn4/

 

[Armoured]

I'm glad everyone learned so much about how evidence works from the Gobekli Tepe brothel incident. I'm done.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Saying "we have Jewish DNA" doesn't prove anything else you've said there.

I do not think I am Jewish do you think that you are? The Bible is a History book of the Hebrew people. As Christians we are adopted into the family of Abraham. There are people in the middle east, the "Jewish" and the "Arab" people that call Abraham their Patriarch or father. This is what the DNA evidence shows and that validates the Bible.

"In a study of Israeli and Palestinian Muslim Arabs, more than 70% of the Jewish men and 82% of the Arab men whose DNA was studied, had inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors, who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. "Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool."[31]" Wiki

70% & 82% are very high numbers when you consider that families adopt and people play around as much as they do. Of course "Jewish" men have Sarah as their Matriarch and the "Arab" men have Hagar the Egyptian as their Matriarch. (Jewish is slang for Judah. There are 22 Arab speaking nations.)

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes, evolution is like a movie.

Err... no idea what this has to do with what I said.
Farming has nothing to do with evolution.

Farming is a human practice. And we started doing it a lot longer ago then 6000 years, as your post seems to be claiming.

The Bible is like a camera that takes photos and records a moment in time. For me a day in the Bible is 1,000 years.

That's nice.
We humans still started farming a lot more then 6000 years ago.

So the Bible began around 12,900 (12,971) years ago when we have a nanodiamond comet that we can use as a maker. Just like at the end of the Church age we can use the Friday the 13 as a marker. (2029)

Didn't you just say in the previous post that the adam and eve story is from 6000 years ago?

 

[DogmaHunter]

I do not think I am Jewish do you think that you are? The Bible is a History book of the Hebrew people. As Christians we are adopted into the family of Abraham. There are people in the middle east, the "Jewish" and the "Arab" people that call Abraham their Patriarch or father. This is what the DNA evidence shows and that validates the Bible.

"In a study of Israeli and Palestinian Muslim Arabs, more than 70% of the Jewish men and 82% of the Arab men whose DNA was studied, had inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors, who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. "Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool."[31]" Wiki

70% & 82% are very high numbers when you consider that families adopt and people play around as much as they do. Of course "Jewish" men have Sarah as their Matriarch and the "Arab" men have Hagar the Egyptian as their Matriarch. (Jewish is slang for Judah. There are 22 Arab speaking nations.)

And you think it is surprising that humans from a specific region in the world are rather closely related and / or can be traced back to common ancestral tribes, why exactly?

And btw, do you also accept the exact same genetic technology which shows we share ancestry with chimps, gorilla's and pretty much every other lifeform on this planet?

Or is the technology only reliable when you feel like you can use it to support your religious beliefs?

 

[Armoured]

I do not think I am Jewish do you think that you are? The Bible is a History book of the Hebrew people. As Christians we are adopted into the family of Abraham. There are people in the middle east, the "Jewish" and the "Arab" people that call Abraham their Patriarch or father. This is what the DNA evidence shows and that validates the Bible.

"In a study of Israeli and Palestinian Muslim Arabs, more than 70% of the Jewish men and 82% of the Arab men whose DNA was studied, had inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors, who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. "Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool."[31]" Wiki

70% & 82% are very high numbers when you consider that families adopt and people play around as much as they do. Of course "Jewish" men have Sarah as their Matriarch and the "Arab" men have Hagar the Egyptian as their Matriarch. (Jewish is slang for Judah. There are 22 Arab speaking nations.)

It's the leap you make from there to "the Bible Patriarcs were real"

 

[joshua 1 9]

I'm glad everyone learned so much about how evidence works from the Gobekli Tepe brothel incident. I'm done.

This is a play on words. Gobeki Tepe is in Turkey. In the Turkish language Gobek means navel and is associated with Belly Dancers or Belly Dance Troupe.

Noun[edit]
göbek ‎(definite accusative göbeği, plural göbekler)

1. (anatomy) navel, umbilicus
2. paunch, potbelly, belly
3. middle, core, center, heart
4. heart (of lettuce, cabbage, etc.)
5. central design (on a carpet, rug, tray, ceiling or in a garden, etc.)
6. traffic circle, rotary, circle
7. hub (of a wheel)
8. kernel of nuts

• Turkish "göbek" (belly) + "dans" (dance)

Noun[edit]
göbek dansı

1. belly dance

 

[Armoured]

This is a play on words. Gobeki Tepe is in Turkey. In the Turkish language Gobek means navel and is associated with Belly Dancers or Belly Dance Troupe.

Noun[edit]
göbek ‎(definite accusative göbeği, plural göbekler)

1. (anatomy) navel, umbilicus
2. paunch, potbelly, belly
3. middle, core, center, heart
4. heart (of lettuce, cabbage, etc.)
5. central design (on a carpet, rug, tray, ceiling or in a garden, etc.)
6. traffic circle, rotary, circle
7. hub (of a wheel)
8. kernel of nuts

• Turkish "göbek" (belly) + "dans" (dance)

Noun[edit]
göbek dansı

1. belly dance

Sure.

 

[joshua 1 9]

And you think it is surprising that humans from a specific region in the world are rather closely related and / or can be traced back to common ancestral tribes, why exactly?

I am not surprised at all because I read the Bible. A book that goes back 3500 years and tells us the history of these people. Compared to the history of the Greek people that goes back 2800 years. Moses gives us a snap shot of what life was like 3500 years ago in Ancient Egypt. The reason the people migrated to Egypt is because there was an abundance of food in Egypt at the time. They had Irrigation systems and were able to produce food to feed a lot of people.

 

[joshua 1 9]

And btw, do you also accept the exact same genetic technology which shows we share ancestry with chimps, gorilla's and pretty much every other lifeform on this planet?

I defer to Francis Collins on that as he is a lot more qualified than I am. From my understanding common ancestor with "chimps" is based on retrovirus insertions and Paternity is based on a study of the Y Chromosome and MtDNA.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Farming has nothing to do with evolution.

We need to buy you a dictionary so you can learn the definition of words.

"The History of agriculture records the domestication of plants and animals and the development and dissemination of techniques for raising them productively." Wiki

Domestication is a sustained multi-generational relationship in which one group of organisms assumes a significant degree of influence over the reproduction and care of another group to secure a more predictable supply of resources from that second group.[1] Charles Darwin recognized the small number of traits that made domestic species different from their wild ancestors. He was also the first to recognize the difference between conscious selective breeding in which humans directly select for desirable traits, and unconscious selection where traits evolve as a by-product of natural selection or from selection on other traits.[2][3][4] There is a genetic difference between domestic and wild populations. There is also such a difference between the domestication traits that researchers believe to have been essential at the early stages of domestication, and the improvement traits that have appeared since the split between wild and domestic populations.[5][6][7] Domestication traits are generally fixed within all domesticates, and were selected during the initial episode of domestication of that animal or plant, whereas improvement traits are present only in a proportion of domesticates, though they may be fixed in individual breeds or regional populations.[6][7][8]

The dog was the first historically-documented domesticant,[9][10][11] and was established across Eurasia before the end of the Late Pleistocene era, well before cultivation and before the domestication of other animals.[10] The archaeological and genetic data suggest that long-term bidirectional gene flow between wild and domestic stocks – including donkeys, horses, New and Old World camelids, goats,sheep, and pigs – was common.[7][12] Given its importance to humans and its value as a model of evolutionary and demographic change, domestication has attracted scientists from archaeology,palaeontology, anthropology, botany, zoology, genetics, and the environmental sciences.[13] wiki

NOTE: donkeys, horses, New and Old World camelids, goats,sheep, and pigs are all animals that we read about in the Bible. Because these are the animals in that bio-diverse eco-system that we refer to as Eden in the Bible. Science uses the word Eden just like Science uses the words: Adam and Eve. There is a reason why Science uses these Bible words.

 

[Jimmy D]

We need to buy you a dictionary so you can learn the definition of words.

"The History of agriculture records the domestication of plants and animals and the development and dissemination of techniques for raising them productively." Wiki

Domestication is a sustained multi-generational relationship in which one group of organisms assumes a significant degree of influence over the reproduction and care of another group to secure a more predictable supply of resources from that second group.[1] Charles Darwin recognized the small number of traits that made domestic species different from their wild ancestors. He was also the first to recognize the difference between conscious selective breeding in which humans directly select for desirable traits, and unconscious selection where traits evolve as a by-product of natural selection or from selection on other traits.[2][3][4] There is a genetic difference between domestic and wild populations. There is also such a difference between the domestication traits that researchers believe to have been essential at the early stages of domestication, and the improvement traits that have appeared since the split between wild and domestic populations.[5][6][7] Domestication traits are generally fixed within all domesticates, and were selected during the initial episode of domestication of that animal or plant, whereas improvement traits are present only in a proportion of domesticates, though they may be fixed in individual breeds or regional populations.[6][7][8]

The dog was the first historically-documented domesticant,[9][10][11] and was established across Eurasia before the end of the Late Pleistocene era, well before cultivation and before the domestication of other animals.[10] The archaeological and genetic data suggest that long-term bidirectional gene flow between wild and domestic stocks – including donkeys, horses, New and Old World camelids, goats,sheep, and pigs – was common.[7][12] Given its importance to humans and its value as a model of evolutionary and demographic change, domestication has attracted scientists from archaeology,palaeontology, anthropology, botany, zoology, genetics, and the environmental sciences.[13] wiki

NOTE: donkeys, horses, New and Old World camelids, goats,sheep, and pigs are all animals that we read about in the Bible. Because these are the animals in that bio-diverse eco-system that we refer to as Eden in the Bible. Science uses the word Eden just like Science uses the words: Adam and Eve. There is a reason why Science uses these Bible words.

* Not necessarily camels

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ated-camels-israel-bible-archaeology-science/


Stories about the Jewish patriarchs—Abraham, Joseph, and Jacob—include descriptions of camels as domesticated animals. For example, Genesis 24:11 says, "And he made his camels to kneel down without the city by a well of water at the time of the evening, even the time that women go out to draw water."

Historians believe these stories took place between 2000 and 1500 B.C., based on clues such as passages from Genesis, archaeological information from the site of the great Sumerian city of Ur (located in modern Iraq), and an archive of clay tablets found at the site of Mari (in modern Syria).

....................

"By analyzing archaeological evidence from the copper production sites of the Aravah Valley, we were able to estimate the date of this event in terms of decades rather than centuries," Ben-Yosef said in a press release put out by Tel Aviv University last week.

The study was able to "narrow down the range in which domesticated camels were introduced to 30 years," said Sapir-Hen, an archaeozoologist who studies the role of animals in ancient human culture, in a phone interview. It's "sometime between 930 and 900 B.C."

 

[DogmaHunter]

I am not surprised at all because I read the Bible.

How come I don't require a bible to come to the realisation that people from a specific region in the world will have a higher degree of common ancestry in some tribe of that specific region?

Moses gives us a snap shot of what life was like 3500 years ago in Ancient Egypt.

Yeah, one that is pretty much wrong. For example, there's no evidence at all that at a point in history there was a massive enslavement of israelites in Egypt.

The reason the people migrated to Egypt is because there was an abundance of food in Egypt at the time. They had Irrigation systems and were able to produce food to feed a lot of people.

So, people who wrote stories at a specific time in history, has some knowledge about what was going on in the civilisations in their immediate proximity?

Who would have thought, ey....

Tell me, why doesn't the bible mention kangaroos?

 

[DogmaHunter]

I defer to Francis Collins on that as he is a lot more qualified than I am.

Ok. I'll take that as you fully accepting evolution as presented in mainstream biology. You can read in my sig how Collins feels about it.

From my understanding common ancestor with "chimps" is based on retrovirus insertions and Paternity is based on a study of the Y Chromosome and MtDNA.

You should update your "understanding".

 

[DogmaHunter]

We need to buy you a dictionary so you can learn the definition of words.

"The History of agriculture records the domestication of plants and animals and the development and dissemination of techniques for raising them productively." Wiki

Domestication is a sustained multi-generational relationship in which one group of organisms assumes a significant degree of influence over the reproduction and care of another group to secure a more predictable supply of resources from that second group.[1] Charles Darwin recognized the small number of traits that made domestic species different from their wild ancestors. He was also the first to recognize the difference between conscious selective breeding in which humans directly select for desirable traits, and unconscious selection where traits evolve as a by-product of natural selection or from selection on other traits.[2][3][4] There is a genetic difference between domestic and wild populations. There is also such a difference between the domestication traits that researchers believe to have been essential at the early stages of domestication, and the improvement traits that have appeared since the split between wild and domestic populations.[5][6][7] Domestication traits are generally fixed within all domesticates, and were selected during the initial episode of domestication of that animal or plant, whereas improvement traits are present only in a proportion of domesticates, though they may be fixed in individual breeds or regional populations.[6][7][8]

The dog was the first historically-documented domesticant,[9][10][11] and was established across Eurasia before the end of the Late Pleistocene era, well before cultivation and before the domestication of other animals.[10] The archaeological and genetic data suggest that long-term bidirectional gene flow between wild and domestic stocks – including donkeys, horses, New and Old World camelids, goats,sheep, and pigs – was common.[7][12] Given its importance to humans and its value as a model of evolutionary and demographic change, domestication has attracted scientists from archaeology,palaeontology, anthropology, botany, zoology, genetics, and the environmental sciences.[13] wiki

NOTE: donkeys, horses, New and Old World camelids, goats,sheep, and pigs are all animals that we read about in the Bible. Because these are the animals in that bio-diverse eco-system that we refer to as Eden in the Bible. Science uses the word Eden just like Science uses the words: Adam and Eve. There is a reason why Science uses these Bible words.

"Farming" is about working the field to grow crops in a somewhat controlled environment.
We have been doing that for much longer then 6000 years.