Futurist Only Tribe Of Dan- Antichrist?? :scratch:

[dfw69]

Satan's "anti-christ" , the first beast of Revelation, is actually this entity [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18] .... Abaddon/Apollyon will inhabit the human little horn of Daniel's visions

And the human little horn will not be an Israelite .... he is this one [Micah 5:5-6]

.... he will be of today's Muslims from the line of Ishmael

Is there a scripture that says the final antichrist will be a Muslim Arab or the line of Ishmael specifically ?

 

[tatteredsoul]

<Staff Edit> If it were so, Manasseh would not have been listed since Joseph represents two tribes and not just one. You can't name Manasseh and assume Joseph, which is not a name of a tribe, represents Ephraim.

And it's also interesting to note that you've totally ignored the fact Levi is not one of the 12 tribes either.

<Staff Edit>

Revelation 7:

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Joseph is the father of Manassah and Ephiram. Ephiram is "Joseph," and Manassah is also "Joseph" - the double portion.

As you can see in red, LEVI is mentioned.

 

[dfw69]

!

I am so glad someone actually started a topic on this. This is a very important issue. Joseph gets the double portion with Dan removed.

However, this topic will not be a very settling one if we divulge deeply into the issues.
Dan is considered the Serpent tribe.

I think the 144000 chosen to be sealed in revelation are simply Firstfruits of the Holy Spirit of Israel ... Not land portions ... The Land divided among the tribes in the future is found in Ezekiel when the messiah returns

 

[tatteredsoul]

I think the 144000 chosen to be sealed in revelation are simply Firstfruits of the Holy Spirit of Israel ... Not land portions ... The Land divided among the tribes in the future is found in Ezekiel when the messiah returns

I think so too, but I think the point of discussion is that these firstfruits do not include one original tribe, and gives a double portion to another - suggesting something "went wrong" with Dan in the history between Jacob, and John the Visionary of Revelation.

 

[dfw69]

Dan is given his portion




https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS679US679&hl=en-US&ei=7yBsV6SSLYjrmAHhiaSQDw&q=land+portions+in+ezek&oq=land+portions+in+ezek&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3..33i21.5391.8666.0.9008.8.8.0.0.0.0.96.628.8.8.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..0.2.171...0i22i30.5l2A0GuylX8#imgrc=sjWYNnab87euLM:

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

<Staff Edit>
There will be people from every people saved and some from every people lost.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Dan is given his portion




https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS679US679&hl=en-US&ei=7yBsV6SSLYjrmAHhiaSQDw&q=land+portions+in+ezek&oq=land+portions+in+ezek&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3..33i21.5391.8666.0.9008.8.8.0.0.0.0.96.628.8.8.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..0.2.171...0i22i30.5l2A0GuylX8#imgrc=sjWYNnab87euLM:

Agreed.

 

[tatteredsoul]

<Staff Edit>

Cain killed his brother, and God still told him that if he did right, he would be rewarded, but if he didn't sin lies at the door... Just because you are born of evil doesn't mean you have to be evil. Otherwise, Christ wouldn't matter. He was born of (wo)man, a sinner and race of people damned to die. Yet, He did not succumb to just being human. He did not sin. He did not kill. He did not disobey His Father.

If you want to use that sentiment, ALL OF US are damned - you do understand that right? If it wasn't for Christ, NONE OF US would be saved no matter if you are from the Lion of Judah, or the Serpent of Dan. Christ redeems, not your title.

And, how can all HEBREWS be saved when the Word of God Himself says that the path to Him is narrow? His parables have at least one half of the representative parties falling away (in the parable of the sower, it is 3/4.) Christ came back so that no one would perish, but everyone would have everlasting life - 100% truth. However, not everyone wants that, nor can they perceive it, nor do they know how to attain it. That includes some Hebrews.

And, who ever said anything about the salvation of Dan? The most damning thing anyone has said is that they are a viper tribe - which is biblical - and that the antichrist may come through that line.

<Staff Edit>

 

[dfw69]

I think so too, but I think the point of discussion is that these firstfruits do not include one original tribe, and gives a double portion to another - suggesting something "went wrong" with Dan in the history between Jacob, and John the Visionary of Revelation.

Few possibilities ..

Perhaps it's a mistake ..something added or taken away ..

Perhaps dan refused to return to the promise land in the last days and is still dispersed

Perhaps the tribe of Dan continues to reject Christ so no one is sealed

 

[dfw69]

Yeah, but the tribe of Dan is totally omitted because the whole tribe is of the serpent and committed idolatry, right?

Why would you say that?

 

[precepts]

Cain killed his brother, and God still told him that if he did right, he would be rewarded, but if he didn't sin lies at the door... Just because you are born of evil doesn't mean you have to be evil. Otherwise, Christ wouldn't matter. He was born of (wo)man, a sinner and race of people damned to die. Yet, He did not succumb to just being human. He did not sin. He did not kill. He did not disobey His Father.

If you want to use that sentiment, ALL OF US are damned - you do understand that right? If it wasn't for Christ, NONE OF US would be saved no matter if you are from the Lion of Judah, or the Serpent of Dan. Christ redeems, not your title.

And, how can all HEBREWS be saved when the Word of God Himself says that the path to Him is narrow? His parables have at least one half of the representative parties falling away (in the parable of the sower, it is 3/4.) Christ came back so that no one would perish, but everyone would have everlasting life - 100% truth. However, not everyone wants that, nor can they perceive it, nor do they know how to attain it. That includes some Hebrews.

And, who ever said anything about the salvation of Dan? The most damning thing anyone has said is that they are a viper tribe - which is biblical - and that the antichrist may come through that line.

<Staff Edit>

You chimed in on Dan not being listed because of Idolatry, adding that he is the serpent tribe, right? So my point is; according to those who believe what's written there is fact and not the result of tampering, based on the fact the 12 tribes do not include a tribe of Joseph or Levi; that you are condemning the entire tribe of Dan. If you claim Dan is not numbered because of Idolatry, then you are saying every last person born in the tribe of Dan is condemned, or else they would have been sealed.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Also, Dan didn't stay in the land of their allotted inheritance. Instead they traveled north and they attacked a peaceful people by surprise and set themselves up in their town (formerly called Laish, the town called Dan in the far north on the map)

That is (on the map) up around the Golan Heights area. Right now that is contested territory, and Israel has discovered oil there. The Antichrist is called the Assyrian in scripture so I am trying to connect the dots here.

 

[Luke17:37]

That is (on the map) up around the Golan Heights area. Right now that is contested territory, and Israel has discovered oil there. The Antichrist is called the Assyrian in scripture so I am trying to connect the dots here.

The Golan Heights is east of the Sea of Galilee. Dan is north.

I've been to both.

 

[precepts]

Why would you say that?

Because they said Dan's not numbered/sealed among the 144,000 because they committed idolatry.

Which means what? Not that they're condemned?

And where's that found in the scriptures? Nowhere.

 

[tatteredsoul]

You chimed in on Dan not being listed because of Idolatry, adding that he is the serpent tribe, right?

Wrong.

"!
I am so glad someone actually started a topic on this. This is a very important issue. Joseph gets the double portion with Dan removed.

However, this topic will not be a very settling one if we divulge deeply into the issues.
Dan is considered the Serpent tribe."

That is exactly what I "chimed in" with. I didn't say anything about Dan being idolaters. In fact, my focus was more on the OP, and how she brought up a topic that is seldom discussed. But, you are proving my SECOND to final statement of my OP:

"However, this topic will not be a very settling one if we divulge deeply into the issues..."

So my point is; according to those who believe what's written there is fact and not the result of tampering, based on the fact the 12 tribes do not include a tribe of Joseph or Levi; that you are condemning the entire tribe of Dan. If you claim Dan is not numbered because of Idolatry, then you are saying every last person born in the tribe of Dan is condemned, or else they would have been sealed.

What bible are you reading?

"And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.

Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power:

Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch.

Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations.

O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.

Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of the sea; and he shall be for an haven of ships; and his border shall be unto Zidon.

Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens:

And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute.

Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.

Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

Gad, a troop shall overcome him: but he shall overcome at the last.

Out of Asher his bread shall be fat, and he shall yield royal dainties.

Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words.

Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel

Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them." Genesis 49:1-28



Do you see that BOTH JOSEPH AND LEVI are mentioned as tribes of Israel? Both in Genesis, and in Revelation. What are you talking about? You are seriously putting words into my mouth.

Japheth's entire lineage is not Hebrew by definiton: Japheth was not Shem, and Israel came through Shem. Does that mean Japheth is an idolator, or is damned just because he and his family isnt Hebrew - the same guy that was with Shem covering the nakedness of their father Noah? Do you see how asinine your reasoning is?

 

[Luke17:37]

<Staff Edit>

Do you think that you could take that assumption to a court of law, the reason why Dan isn't listed, and that a court would accept it? No! Why? Because it is speculation. There is no evidence for it, especially since all of Israel committed idolatry.

<Staff Edit>

This is not a court of law. If you need 100% dogmatic facts, "Why is Dan not sealed in Revelation 7?" is the wrong topic for you. The Bible doesn't specifically say why Dan is not one of the tribes sealed in Revelation 7. It just doesn't include Dan. I offered my best guess based on the history of Dan and Ephraim. <Staff Edit>

 

[Steve Petersen]

A lot of people why the tribe of Dan is not listed in the Revelation passage regarding the 144,000.Could it be that this is the tribe that the Antichrist comes from?

I doubt Jewish people would accept a messianic pretender who wasn't descended from David. He is always referred to as 'Ben David' (son of David) in Jewish literature.

David was from Judah.

 

[Steve Petersen]

However, there are legends in Judaism that the Antichrist will descend from Joseph.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1789-armilus

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I doubt Jewish people would accept a messianic pretender who wasn't descended from David. He is always referred to as 'Ben David' (son of David) in Jewish literature.

David was from Judah.

Thanks for posting. But do you think the Antichrist will descend from the line of David?

 

[Luke17:37]

And there is no logical explanation except fpr scripture tampering since it doesn't align with the OT, and since no reason is giving in the text.

Oh, so you believe the Scripture has been tampered with? I reject that hypothesis.