Futurist Only Tribe Of Dan- Antichrist?? :scratch:

[Lulav]

MOD HAT
Reopening- Posts have been either deleted
or edited of flames.

This is a great subject to discuss
but please don't make it personal.
Your Salvation is not dependent
on how you view these prophecies
so please treat each other kindly.
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Straightshot]

My comment

Israel will not accept the "anti-christ" at all, for this one will be the nation's archenemy

He will not be an Israelite and is called the "Assyrian" in Micah 5:5-6

His rising will be in northwestern Mesopotamia [Syria/Iraq today] .... this region was the core of the Ancient Assyrian Empire that rules the Middle East for 1500 years [Nineveh Province on the Tigris River ... Mosul Iraq today]

This one is the "other prince" seen in Daniel 9:24-27 .... one who will come to Israel and Jerusalem

The Messiah Prince is the one who will confirm His covenant with Israel during the coming 70th week decreed for the nation

Some take the verse out of context where Jesus states that He came in His Father's name and the audience of unbelieving Israel rejected Him, and yet when a Pharisaical rabbi [teacher] came in their own name they were accepted for teaching truth [John 5:43]

This passage of scripture has nothing to do with the coming "anti-christ" whatsoever

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Here is the late J.R. Church on the tribe of Dan and the Antichrist. This is part 1 . I think there are three parts but you all can find it on youtube.

 

[dfw69]

Thanks for posting. But do you think the Antichrist will descend from the line of David?

I think an antichrist will come from a son of David as prophecied by Jesus who said another will come in his own name that they will recieve but he is not the final antichrist who will be an Assyrian the man of sin son of perdition claiming to be God in the flesh , perhaps seeking to fulfill the Emanuel prophecy

 

[precepts]

This is not a court of law. If you need 100% dogmatic facts, "Why is Dan not sealed in Revelation 7?" is the wrong topic for you. The Bible doesn't specifically say why Dan is not one of the tribes sealed in Revelation 7. It just doesn't include Dan. I offered my best guess based on the history of Dan and Ephraim. <Staff Edit>

My point is if you can't use it in a court of law, you should use it period. Assumptions and speculations have no place in a logical debate. You can't draw conclusions where there's no evidence present.

 

[dfw69]

Question: is Dan portion in the land of Assyria ?

 

[tatteredsoul]

Question: is Dan portion in the land of Assyria ?

Yes... just south of Mt. Hermon.

There was also some land north of Judah (Gaza,) in West Israel along coast.

Interesting, the times no?

 

[dfw69]

Yes... just south of Mt. Hermon.

There was also some land north of Judah (Gaza,) in West Israel along coast.

Interesting, the times no?

hmmm

 

[dfw69]

For Dan to fulfill prophecy they will be given there land portion which could only come by a false messianic age first....

then have a king over them ...10 kings over the 10 tribes of Israel must form first ... To fulfill prophecy of the 10 kings of the north

And dans King would rise up over the other kingdoms to unite the 10 kingdoms as one

His false prophet will be the king of the south which is the king of Judah and Benjamin (having 2 horns like a lamb ) and eventually he will claim to be God and sit in the temple and will seek to establish idol worship to fulfill the abomination of desolation causing Israel to flee to Petra

It's possible Dan will be used by God in the future but will overstep his authority

 

[dfw69]

However, there are legends in Judaism that the Antichrist will descend from Joseph.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1789-armilus

Do you suppose that some already believe antichrist from the Jewish standpoint has already come in the form of Christianity and its leader is Jesus? That if Jesus returns he will be the true antichrist and they will make war against him?

The article is anti Christian ... Teaching God will force repentance which is not correct ...God does not force anyone to love him .. It is Satan who tempts and God who saves all who call upon him

And that fleeing to the wilderness where they will suffer trials is incorrect ..God will help and feed them that flee from antichrist to Petra

 

[Luke17:37]

My point is if you can't use it in a court of law, you should use it period. Assumptions and speculations have no place in a logical debate. You can't draw conclusions where there's no evidence present.

I haven't assumed anything. Assuming and theorizing are not equal. The point of this thread was for people to present ideas because God didn't tell us.

 

[Dave-W]

Joseph is not a tribe. Joseph's two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, became two of the twelve tribes. There is no tribe called Joseph, nor is there a tribe of Levi among the twelve tribes of Israel.

Actually Levi IS listed among the tribes - but they were given no land. Manasseh and Ephraim were called "half-tribes."

Deuteronomy 29:8 and we took their land and gave it as an inheritance to the Reubenites, the Gadites, and the half-tribe of the Manassites.

Here are the 12 tribes listed out:

Gen 49.1 Then Jacob summoned his sons and said, “Assemble yourselves that I may tell you what will befall you in the days to come.

2 “Gather together and hear, O sons of Jacob;
And listen to Israel your father.

3 “Reuben, (1) you are my firstborn;
My might and the beginning of my strength,
Preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power.
4 “Uncontrolled as water, you shall not have preeminence,
Because you went up to your father’s bed;
Then you defiled it—he went up to my couch.

5 “Simeon (2) and Levi (3) are brothers;
Their swords are implements of violence.
6 “Let my soul not enter into their council;
Let not my glory be united with their assembly;
Because in their anger they slew men,
And in their self-will they lamed oxen.
7 “Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce;
And their wrath, for it is cruel.
I will disperse them in Jacob,
And scatter them in Israel.

8 “Judah, (4) your brothers shall praise you;
Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies;
Your father’s sons shall bow down to you.
9 “Judah is a lion’s whelp;
From the prey, my son, you have gone up.
He couches, he lies down as a lion,
And as a lion, who dares rouse him up?
10 “The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes,
And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.
11 “He ties his foal to the vine,
And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine;
He washes his garments in wine,
And his robes in the blood of grapes.
12 “His eyes are dull from wine,
And his teeth white from milk.

13 “Zebulun (5) will dwell at the seashore;
And he shall be a haven for ships,
And his flank shall be toward Sidon.

14 “Issachar (6) is a strong donkey,
Lying down between the sheepfolds.
15 “When he saw that a resting place was good
And that the land was pleasant,
He bowed his shoulder to bear burdens,
And became a slave at forced labor.

16 “Dan (7) shall judge his people,
As one of the tribes of Israel.
17 “Dan shall be a serpent in the way,
A horned snake in the path,
That bites the horse’s heels,
So that his rider falls backward.
18 “For Your salvation I wait, O Lord.

19 “As for Gad, (8) raiders shall raid him,
But he will raid at their heels.

20 “As for Asher, (9) his food shall be rich,
And he will yield royal dainties.

21 “Naphtali (10) is a doe let loose,
He gives beautiful words.

22 “Joseph (11) is a fruitful bough,
A fruitful bough by a spring;
Its branches run over a wall.
23 “The archers bitterly attacked him,
And shot at him and harassed him;
24 But his bow remained firm,
And his arms were agile,
From the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob
(From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),
25 From the God of your father who helps you,
And by the Almighty who blesses you
With blessings of heaven above,
Blessings of the deep that lies beneath,
Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.
26 “The blessings of your father
Have surpassed the blessings of my ancestors
Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills;
May they be on the head of Joseph,
And on the crown of the head of the one distinguished among his brothers.

27 “Benjamin (12) is a ravenous wolf;
In the morning he devours the prey,
And in the evening he divides the spoil.”

28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel, and this is what their father said to them when he blessed them. He blessed them, every one with the blessing appropriate to him.

 

[precepts]

Here is the late J.R. Church on the tribe of Dan and the Antichrist. This is part 1 . I think there are three parts but you all can find it on youtube.

This is an old Catholic doctrine from one of the so-called early Church fathers. They base their whole premise on one verse which seems to a norm when it comes to creating false doctrine.

Jer 8:16 The snorting of his horses was heard from Dan: the whole land trembled at the sound of the neighing of his strong ones; for they are come, and have devoured the land, and all that is in it; the city, and those that dwell therein.​

The whole belief is based on this one verse, but the context is referencing Nebuchadnezzar and his army when they invaded Israel from the area of the tribe of Dan first.

There is no 2,000 yrs gap between the beast kingdoms, which is your stumbling block, and we are not living in any prophecy time. We are not privileged enough.

 

[Luke17:37]

<Staff Edit>

You haven't read Genesis 49, which two people have sent you?

5 “Simeon and Levi are brothers;
Instruments of cruelty are in their dwelling place.
6 Let not my soul enter their council;
Let not my honor be united to their assembly;
For in their anger they slew a man,
And in their self-will they hamstrung an ox.
7 Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce;
And their wrath, for it is cruel!
I will divide them in Jacob
And scatter them in Israel.
...
22 “Joseph is a fruitful bough,
A fruitful bough by a well;
His branches run over the wall.
23 The archers have bitterly grieved him,
Shot at him and hated him.
24 But his bow remained in strength,
And the arms of his hands were made strong
By the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob
(From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),
25 By the God of your father who will help you,
And by the Almighty who will bless you
With blessings of heaven above,
Blessings of the deep that lies beneath,
Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.
26 The blessings of your father
Have excelled the blessings of my ancestors,
Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills.
They shall be on the head of Joseph,
And on the crown of the head of him who was separate from his brothers.
...
28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel, and this is what their father spoke to them. And he blessed them; he blessed each one according to his own blessing.

If you search, you find many other passages specifically citing Levi as a tribe: Numbers 1:47-53, Numbers 3:5-13, Numbers 18, Deuteronomy 10:8-9, Deuteronomy 18:1-8, Joshua 13:33, Ezekiel 48:30-38, and of course, Revelation 7:1-8. The Levites are the priestly tribe. They were given certain towns to dwell in within the other tribes' inheritance, but that doesn't negate the Levites being a tribe. Their inheritance was "the Lord" according to several of these verses.

The tribe of Joseph is sometimes divided into the half tribe of Ephraim and the half tribe of Manasseh. Each were given a portion of land, so Joseph effectively gets a double portion. This is the case in Revelation, too, since 12,000 from Joseph and 12,000 from Manasseh are sealed. And Revelation 7:1-8 is not about land, it's just about 144,000 people who are set apart for a special protection from the LORD during the Tribulation.

 

[Dave-W]

God specifically said Levi is not to be numbered among the 12, hence the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh.

Which I showed used the term "half-tribe."

 

[Dave-W]

God specifically said Levi is not to be numbered among the 12

Only in certain things since they were the priests and exempt from most normal activities. They were not among the warriors so they got counted separately in the census; and they were not allotted a tract of land. (just certain cities of refuge)

 

[tatteredsoul]

Actually Levi IS listed among the tribes - but they were given no land. Manasseh and Ephraim were called "half-tribes."

Deuteronomy 29:8 and we took their land and gave it as an inheritance to the Reubenites, the Gadites, and the half-tribe of the Manassites.

Here are the 12 tribes listed out:

Gen 49.1 Then Jacob summoned his sons and said, “Assemble yourselves that I may tell you what will befall you in the days to come.

2 “Gather together and hear, O sons of Jacob;
And listen to Israel your father.

3 “Reuben, (1) you are my firstborn;
My might and the beginning of my strength,
Preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power.
4 “Uncontrolled as water, you shall not have preeminence,
Because you went up to your father’s bed;
Then you defiled it—he went up to my couch.

5 “Simeon (2) and Levi (3) are brothers;
Their swords are implements of violence.
6 “Let my soul not enter into their council;
Let not my glory be united with their assembly;
Because in their anger they slew men,
And in their self-will they lamed oxen.
7 “Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce;
And their wrath, for it is cruel.
I will disperse them in Jacob,
And scatter them in Israel.

8 “Judah, (4) your brothers shall praise you;
Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies;
Your father’s sons shall bow down to you.
9 “Judah is a lion’s whelp;
From the prey, my son, you have gone up.
He couches, he lies down as a lion,
And as a lion, who dares rouse him up?
10 “The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes,
And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.
11 “He ties his foal to the vine,
And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine;
He washes his garments in wine,
And his robes in the blood of grapes.
12 “His eyes are dull from wine,
And his teeth white from milk.

13 “Zebulun (5) will dwell at the seashore;
And he shall be a haven for ships,
And his flank shall be toward Sidon.

14 “Issachar (6) is a strong donkey,
Lying down between the sheepfolds.
15 “When he saw that a resting place was good
And that the land was pleasant,
He bowed his shoulder to bear burdens,
And became a slave at forced labor.

16 “Dan (7) shall judge his people,
As one of the tribes of Israel.
17 “Dan shall be a serpent in the way,
A horned snake in the path,
That bites the horse’s heels,
So that his rider falls backward.
18 “For Your salvation I wait, O Lord.

19 “As for Gad, (8) raiders shall raid him,
But he will raid at their heels.

20 “As for Asher, (9) his food shall be rich,
And he will yield royal dainties.

21 “Naphtali (10) is a doe let loose,
He gives beautiful words.

22 “Joseph (11) is a fruitful bough,
A fruitful bough by a spring;
Its branches run over a wall.
23 “The archers bitterly attacked him,
And shot at him and harassed him;
24 But his bow remained firm,
And his arms were agile,
From the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob
(From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),
25 From the God of your father who helps you,
And by the Almighty who blesses you
With blessings of heaven above,
Blessings of the deep that lies beneath,
Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.
26 “The blessings of your father
Have surpassed the blessings of my ancestors
Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills;
May they be on the head of Joseph,
And on the crown of the head of the one distinguished among his brothers.

27 “Benjamin (12) is a ravenous wolf;
In the morning he devours the prey,
And in the evening he divides the spoil.”

28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel, and this is what their father said to them when he blessed them. He blessed them, every one with the blessing appropriate to him.

What bible are you reading?

"And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.

Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power:

Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch.

Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations.

O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.

Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of the sea; and he shall be for an haven of ships; and his border shall be unto Zidon.

Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens:

And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute.

Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.

Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

Gad, a troop shall overcome him: but he shall overcome at the last.

Out of Asher his bread shall be fat, and he shall yield royal dainties.

Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words.

Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel

Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them." Genesis 49:1-28

Interesting... i posted this exact passage and I was told I was giving the 12 sons of Joseph...

 

[Dave-W]

Levi is not one of the 12 tribes of Israel.There is no land of Levi.

Land does not equal "tribe."

"Twelve tribes of Israel" refers to PEOPLE, not places. Israel is a PERSON. (formerly known as Jacob)

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Land does not equal "tribe."

"Twelve tribes of Israel" refers to PEOPLE, not places. Israel is a PERSON. (formerly known as Jacob)

THANK YOU!

 

[precepts]

Land does not equal "tribe."

"Twelve tribes of Israel" refers to PEOPLE, not places. Israel is a PERSON. (formerly known as Jacob)

The land of Israel was divided into 12 lots/inheritance, and Levi is not one. Read Numbers 2.