The problem of evil

[amariselle]

Nobody is demanding you to believe anything.

What others are asking (which will happen when you make claims in this area of the forum) is for you to provide support for your claims.

So far, you have provided none.

Again, ditto. I have seen absolutely nothing here that convinces me science has the answers to life's most important questions. And I have seen nothing that explains how science can disprove God.

But unlike you, I'm not going to wait around for science to do so, it never will.

 

[amariselle]

That's not at all funny.

Perhaps not, but using it as a response to my post is. Why would you ever do such a thing?

 

[amariselle]

Because like you said, it has to exist outside of science and logic. You said that earlier.

No, what I said was that science can neither prove nor disprove God, and it can't.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Again, ditto. I have seen absolutely nothing here that convinces me science has the answers to life's most important questions. And I have seen nothing that explains how science can disprove God.

But unlike you, I'm not going to wait around for science to do so, it never will.

No, what I said was that science can neither prove nor disprove God, and it can't.

Would it matter to you if science did? After all, you said that it has no bearing on your belief anyway.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Perhaps not, but using it as a response to my post is. Why would you ever do such a thing?

To show you that other "Bible-believing Christians" have differing views to your own. You may disagree with them, but you cannot say that they are not Christians. They are.

 

[amariselle]

Explain what science is and what science does, according to you.

Science is the study of the observable, natural world around us. It is the study of the material, physical, reproducible phenomena/occurrences that can be demonstrated and repeatedly reproduced through experimentation and study.

The problem is that science has overstepped its bounds and has made claims about that which it cannot study or support through evidence and experimentation. Instead it has claimed various theories are absolute fact.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Science is the study of the observable, natural world around us. It is the study of the material, physical, reproducible phenomena/occurrences that can be demonstrated and repeatedly reproduced through experimentation and study.

The problem is that science has overstepped its bounds and has made claims about that which it cannot study or support through evidence and experimentation. Instead it has claimed various theories are absolute fact.

The definition of theory in science is important to bear in mind.

 

[FireDragon76]

Then why have you identified yourself as a Christian? The problem of evil is temporary from God's perspective. The problem of obedience to the Gospel is a more serious issue for each one personally.

Because I'm baptized and I believe that means something. I guess you think somebody can't be a Christian and struggle? I would hate to be in your congregation if you shun and disown everybody that expresses doubts.

At any rate, you haven't been following the conversation very well, obviously.

 

[Hikarifuru]

No, what I said was that science can neither prove nor disprove God, and it can't.

Actually what you said was

"Actually, true and honest science does not "dismiss" God. True and honest science admits that God, if He exists, is beyond the reach and study of science."

You said god is inherently outside of science (logic) and that any honest person accepts that from the beginning. You said true science places god outside of science ... but I don't have anything new to tell you so I'm done.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Because I'm baptized and I believe that means something. I guess you think somebody can't be a Christian and struggle? I would hate to be in your congregation if you shun and disown everybody that expresses doubts.

At any rate, you haven't been following the conversation very well, obviously.

At what point do the doubts become unacceptable though? I'm sure it varies from congregation to congregation, but there always seems to be a line, sometimes fine and sometimes blurred, that one is not allowed to cross when questioning the doctrines of one's church.

 

[amariselle]

The definition of theory in science is important to bear in mind.

Agreed. Science itself would do well to remember that.

 

[amariselle]

Actually what you said was

"Actually, true and honest science does not "dismiss" God. True and honest science admits that God, if He exists, is beyond the reach and study of science."

You said god is inherently outside of science (logic) and that any honest person accepts that from the beginning. You said true science places god outside of science ... but I don't have anything new to tell you so I'm done.

Your problem here is that you have made the words "logic" and "science" synonymous. They are not.

And yes, true science admits that it cannot study God, that it can neither prove or disprove His existence. Science can only deal with the observable and material world around us.

Thank you for reiterating my points.

 

[amariselle]

To show you that other "Bible-believing Christians" have differing views to your own. You may disagree with them, but you cannot say that they are not Christians. They are.

A Christian is someone who follows Christ, who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, that He died for our sins and offers us forgiveness. A Christian has a accepted Jesus' free gift of salvation given by grace, through faith and they live in obedience to Christ. (Yes, we still make mistakes, but we turn to Him and again ask for forgiveness, and we pray for guidance and discernment and ask He would continually work in us to transform us so that we have more and more of Jesus' character and love)

Yes, Christians can have different views about things that are not core beliefs, but if anyone questions the divinity of Jesus and the salvation we have through His redemptive work on the cross, or if anyone does things in His name that are in disobedience to Him, then they are not a Christian because they are not truly following Christ.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Agreed. Science itself would do well to remember that.

It does. You don't. That's the problem.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

A Christian is someone who follows Christ, who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, that He died for our sins and offers us forgiveness.

The individuals in that video satisfy that definition.

 

[amariselle]

The individuals in that video satisfy that definition.

Actually, the first person on that video isn't a Christian at all, he's a Muslim. That says a lot about the credibility of the video. Perhaps you want to be more careful when addressing Christians. Please don't confuse Christians with Muslims. Islam and Christianity are not the same thing.

As for the others, like I said, a Christian must also live in obedience to Christ.

 

[amariselle]

It does. You don't. That's the problem.

It doesn't, that's the problem.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Actually, the first person on that video isn't a Christian at all, he's a Muslim. That says a lot about the credibility of the video. Perhaps you want to be more careful when addressing Christians. Please don't confuse Christians with Muslims. Islam and Christianity are not the same thing.

Obviously I was referring to the Christians in the video. I didn't think that needed to be spelled out.

As for the others, like I said, a Christian must also live in obedience to Christ.

Which is what those Christians claim to be doing.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

It doesn't, that's the problem.

Are you going to support this assertion or not?

I've made a number of other comments on your posts on page 78 that you have yet to address.

 

[amariselle]

Obviously I was referring to the Christians in the video. I didn't think that needed to be spelled out.

You shared the video with the sole intent of pointing your finger at Christians, so check your sources carefully before posting a video that actually deals with Muslims, not just Christians.

Which is what those Christians claim to be doing.

Their claims are not what matters. Jesus warns about such people, who will do things in His name but who are not His true followers. This is why we are to seek discernment and judge by the "fruits" or results of such people's lives and ministries.

I and other Christians on this forum have spoken up about such "Christians." Perhaps you want to listen to what many Christians are saying about "Ministers" such as the ones in the video, before you go pointing your finger at ALL Christians and labeling us all the same.

It might come as a surprise to you, but.....I don't actually agree with what these "Christians" are saying. Their words clearly indicate they are not obeying Christ.