Hell.....

[Hieronymus]

From the Bible.

As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.41 The Son of Man will send out his angels,and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

'weeping and gnashing of teeth' doesn't sound like people who are dead, but pretty conscious.

You think the waste lasted in Gehenna then?
And why then open a topic about it when you actually can't even discuss it?

You think the burning wicked will be there when God makes everything new??

COME ON!

Is the 2nd death no death?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

You think the waste lasted in Gehenna then?
And why then open a topic about it when you actually can't even discuss it?

You think the burning wicked will be there when God makes everything new??

COME ON!

Well yes, in Revelation the lake of fire is clearly there at the end, I don't see any biblical reason for it to disappear.

People read too much into the word 'gehenna' and start extrapolating all sorts of things about how the waste is dead, it doesn't last, etc. without explicit evidence from the Bible.

How about just reading Jesus' own words, as I quoted, about the weeping and gnashing of teeth?

EDIT: And Gehenna doesn't even seem to be confirmed as a waste dump by any archaeological or historical evidence. Rather many think the name refers to when old kings of Judah tried sacrificing their sons in Gehenna and burning them? In the end we don't truly know, and to extrapolate some sort of support for annihilationism from some extra-biblical guesswork on Gehenna seems a bit of a stretch don't you think?

 

[Hieronymus]

Well yes, in Revelation the lake of fire is clearly there at the end, I don't see any biblical reason for it to disappear.

People read too much into the word 'gehenna' and start extrapolating all sorts of things about how the waste is dead, it doesn't last, etc. without explicit evidence from the Bible.

How about just reading Jesus' own words, as I quoted, about the weeping and gnashing of teeth?

Why don't you read the whole Bible and see that death and Hades will be incinerated too.
The 2nd death is death, not life under eternal torture.

Look, i have studied this subject in particular, and for both scenarios there is a case to be made.
BUT, the case for annihilation is simply much stronger.

This eternal torture idea is exactly why Christians harden their hearts towards unbelievers.
Because it needs to be justified in our minds.

It is also why people despise God.

 

[Colter]

That's not really an answer - the very question at issue (at least in some of the posts in this thread) is whether the Bible really does teach eternal hellfire.

Yes the Bible teacher everlasting hellfire.

* Some believe what the Bible says about Hell as a place of everlasting torment.

* Others don't believe in Hell as an everlasting torment but still source the Bible as the authority for their faith, so they must try to explain it away.

* Me, I agree the Bible teaches hell as a place with everlasting torment but I don't believe that's true.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Why don't you read the whole Bible and see that death and Hades will be incinerated too.
The 2nd death is death, not life under eternal torture.

Look, i have studied this subject in particular, and for both scenarios there is a case to be made.
BUT, the case for annihilation is simply much stronger.

This eternal torture idea is exactly why Christians harden their hearts towards unbelievers.
Because it needs to be justified in our minds.

It is also why people despise God.

Sorry guys, i'm getting a bucket to puke in.

Okay, let's stay in the text. What do you think Jesus means when He says those in the blazing furnace will be weeping and gnashing their teeth?

And non-believers despise God because the light exposes their darkness, not because of an eternal Hell.

 

[expos4ever]

Yes the Bible teacher everlasting hellfire.

This is debatable. Are you prepared to discuss the matter? I suspect we may not be allowed to since the authorities may see arguments against eternal torment as effectively the promotion of annihilation theology.

But if we are allowed to discuss this - and you refuse to do so - the objective reader will see as likely indicating that your position is indeed questionable (otherwise, you would be able to defend it in proper debate).

 

[Colter]

Two unsaved people, one a 10 year old Muslim child from Howdydoodyville, the other a 90 year old pedophile with 1,000 victims. The Bible has both in torment for an eternity. That is to say that after 1 Trillion years they both are still being tortured. 5 Trillion years go by, still torturing. Another 78 Trillion years go by still suffering. 692,467,897 Trillion years go by, still tormented. I hereby stand in defense of the heavenly father's character and completely reject such a crass injustice!!!!! And I stand entirely ready to be judged by the Father for my belief in him.

 

[Colter]

This is debatable. Are you prepared to discuss the matter? I suspect we may not be allowed to since the authorities may see arguments against eternal torment as effectively the promotion of annihilation theology.

But if we are allowed to discuss this - and you refuse to do so - the objective reader will see as likely indicating that your position is indeed questionable (otherwise, you would be able to defend it in proper debate).

I think the appropriate references have already been cited earlier on the thread. I assume most people are already familiar with the quotes about eternal Hell fire and torment. But you are right, we can only discuss the official Christian doctrine of eternal torture here. Someone reported me and I was contacted by the mods.

 

[Hieronymus]

Okay, let's stay in the text. What do you think Jesus means when He says those in the blazing furnace will be weeping and gnashing their teeth?

I think dying the 2nd death will be no fun. Do you?

And non-believers despise God because the light exposes their darkness, not because of an eternal Hell.

God is Love, but He mercilessly tortures unbelievers eternally who didn't get it, or who He himself blinded in their puny 80 years on a wicked planet.

 

[Hieronymus]

I'm taking a break to study this again, i may be back here or a new topic later.

 

[Hieronymus]

One more thing though.
Why are we supposed to love our fellow humans, while realising many of them may end up being tortured for ever and ever?
So that we will scare them into faith?


See you later folks.

 

[Abraxos]

I'm taking a break to study this again, i may be back here or a new topic later.

lol I hear that. It's an interesting topic and something I don't know much about.

I will say that Jesus Christ spoke more about hell than heaven, and Christians shouldn't feel the need to compromise what the Bible says about hell to accommodate a universally accepting Lord God of love and peace and all that fluff.

 

[Goatee]

All this talk that God is willing to punish people for eternity is not quite true!

God does not punish anyone!

It is those that choose to go to hell that punish themselves!!

 

[Truthfrees]

We will try to limit our comments to "just the Bible" if they get to anything that this area of the board might not allow.

if there are texts we need to avoid quoting - please let us know.

You can discuss any scripture texts, but anyone who wants to say the Nicene Creed or any of it's points are wrong, they can't do that in any Christian Only Forums.

BUT it can be discussed in Controversial theology.

I will edit the Mod Hat to say that.

 

[Hieronymus]

All this talk that God is willing to punish people for eternity is not quite true!

God does not punish anyone!

It is those that choose to go to hell that punish themselves!!

Yeah right...

 

[Hieronymus]

This is debatable. Are you prepared to discuss the matter?

[edit]You were addressing Colter i see, sorry...[/quote]
I will definitely discuss this further.

I just came back now to see if i should clean up some posts.
You see, i'm a Christian without traditional background, so i'm not indoctrinated with eternal life in torment, i have learnt there is eternal life in Christ or the 2nd death, as in either in the Book of Life or not.
I have only studied exegesis.

John 3:16 says it all actually, but one verse is obviously not enough, but there are many more, Romans 3:23 for example.

There's no doctrine in the Bible that suggests immortal human souls either.
Man is mortal since Genesis 3, but there is Life eternal in Christ.

I suspect we may not be allowed to since the authorities may see arguments against eternal torment as effectively the promotion of annihilation theology.

Personally i find that ... i won't say that..

But if we are allowed to discuss this - and you refuse to do so - the objective reader will see as likely indicating that your position is indeed questionable (otherwise, you would be able to defend it in proper debate).

Indeed.
I didn't realise an eternally torturing God was mandatory doctrine here, nor that it is the common belief in most of Christianity.
I still can't fathom how people accept the idea and still say: "God is love".

How do people picture this anyway?
Life in the Kingdom in Heaven, no evil around.
O, except of course for that pit of fire with people being tortured forever, crying and gnashing their teeth.

Anyway, i'm studying the subject now, taking notes etcetera.

Later (i think tomorrow).

 

[BobRyan]

From the Bible.

As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.41 The Son of Man will send out his angels,and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

'weeping and gnashing of teeth' doesn't sound like people who are dead, but pretty conscious.

The question I see most often debated is not whether the wicked are really tormented in that lake of fire - but rather - for how long.

 

[Alithis]

Real does not require a place or location. Salvation is real, and has no physical place or location binding it down. God is real, and has no physical place or location binding Him down. Asking whether it is real is like asking if gravity is real.

and ? hell is a spiritual place for spiritual beings

 

[BobRyan]

This is debatable. Are you prepared to discuss the matter? I suspect we may not be allowed to since the authorities may see arguments against eternal torment as effectively the promotion of annihilation theology.

But if we are allowed to discuss this - and you refuse to do so - the objective reader will see as likely indicating that your position is indeed questionable (otherwise, you would be able to defend it in proper debate).

Your former statement is the correct one - not allowed to have that discussion in the GT section -- but I "think" they still allow posting Bible texts on the subject even if those texts do not favor a given POV.

I have asked for a list of texts not to quote on the GT section - if there is one and so far board admin has not provided a list - so I "think" we can still post them - just no commenting.

 

[BobRyan]

Real does not require a place or location. Salvation is real,

Christ is in Heaven - sinners are on earth - getting saved. Place... and ... location."I go to prepare a place for you and if I go -- I will come again and receive you to myself that WHERE I am THERE you may be also" John 14.

Lake of Fire in Rev 20 is on earth -- place... and ... location. That is how John describes hell - as the lake of fire.