2Thessalonians2:7 explained

[Postvieww]

Psalm3704 said post #420

Why would I needed to comment on the four winds? You need an explanation on this too? It's common knowledge, people know that's a reference to the four cardinal points: north, south, east and west.

Jeremiah 49:36 Good News Translation (GNT)

I will make winds blow against Elam from all directions, and I will scatter her people everywhere, until there is no country where her refugees have not gone.

This is not a passage about the 3rd heaven. Knucklehead eschatology.

Daniel 7:2 Good News Translation (GNT)

of what I saw that night: Winds were blowing from all directions and lashing the surface of the ocean.

This is not a passage about the 3rd heaven. Knucklehead eschatology.

Daniel 8:8 Good News Translation (GNT)

The goat grew more and more arrogant, but at the height of his power his horn was broken. In its place four prominent horns came up, each pointing in a different direction.

This is not a passage about the 3rd heaven. Knucklehead eschatology.

Zechariah 2:6-7 Good News Translation (GNT)

The Lord said to his people, “I scattered you in all directions. But now, you exiles, escape from Babylonia and return to Jerusalem.

This is not a passage about the 3rd heaven. Knucklehead eschatology.


Postvieww asks Psalm 3704:

Jeremiah 49: 36 And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come.

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does this event take place on the earth?

2. Does the four winds in this passage refer to heaven where God dwells?

Daniel 7: 2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Is the event Daniels is describing on this earth?

2. Are the four winds in this passage Daniel described that strove on the great sea winds from heaven where God dwells?

Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Is the event Daniel describing in this passage on this earth?

2. Will the “four notable” come up toward the four winds of HEAVEN where God dwells?

Zechariah 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the Lord.

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does this event take place on this earth?

2. Does the four winds of the heaven in this passage refer to heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 24: 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Two questions;

1. What make the use of “four wind” different in this passage different from the others ?

2. Since Jesus clearly comes to this earth in Matt 24:30 people here see Him. How is it the angels who He sends from here (earth) to gather would have to go back to heaven to gather the elect since 1 Thessalonians 4:14 says them that sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him, and Jude 14 says He comes with ten thousands of His saints, and Zechariah 14:5 says He will come and all the saints will be with Him?

No need to attack me personally just answer the simple questions with simple answers.

Even “knuckelheads” can understand yes and no, and straight forward answers to simple questions.

 

[Postvieww]

Psalm3704 said:

In Isaiah 26:19-21, it reveals the elects are to wait in our mansions in heaven till after the indignation.

Complete opinion you have no basis for tying the word “chambers” with the word “mansions”!

You have no scriptural basis for saying those chambers are in heaven (where God dwells)! Complete opinion!

You didn’t address the point, explain how you can insert word mansions for chambers?

So are you telling us when Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you," He's preparing a shack for you? I'm getting a mansion, you can have the shack.

We are told clearly and in great detail what is being prepared for us Revelation 21:2 the new Jerusalem PREPARED as a bride adorned for her husband.

Described by John:Revelation 21:10-27

Pretty nice place, I believe this would qualify for a mansion. Where in scripture is the temporary housing where you believe the church will hide out behind closed doors during the tribulation described?

You forgot to address this point:

Do you really believe saints would be in heaven HIDING behind closed doors from something happening on earth, really, give me a break!

 

[Postvieww]

Psalm3704 said:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 is not a scripture on the rapture.

Paul's scripture on the rapture is in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

So if 2 Thess 2:1 is not a rapture (resurrection) passage, is it a second coming passage? By what method of “Knucklehead eschatology” does one divide up, coming of the Lord passages?



1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:





All of these passages use the Strong’s word 3952 Parousia for coming. Maybe you can explain how you correctly divide the passages into at least two little piles and what basis you use to make that determination. Show which one goes in which pile and why? Try to just answer the question without theatrics.

 

[Psalm3704]

Psalm3704 said post #420

Why would I needed to comment on the four winds? You need an explanation on this too? It's common knowledge, people know that's a reference to the four cardinal points: north, south, east and west.

Jeremiah 49:36 Good News Translation (GNT)

I will make winds blow against Elam from all directions, and I will scatter her people everywhere, until there is no country where her refugees have not gone.

This is not a passage about the 3rd heaven. Knucklehead eschatology.

Daniel 7:2 Good News Translation (GNT)

of what I saw that night: Winds were blowing from all directions and lashing the surface of the ocean.

This is not a passage about the 3rd heaven. Knucklehead eschatology.

Daniel 8:8 Good News Translation (GNT)

The goat grew more and more arrogant, but at the height of his power his horn was broken. In its place four prominent horns came up, each pointing in a different direction.

This is not a passage about the 3rd heaven. Knucklehead eschatology.

Zechariah 2:6-7 Good News Translation (GNT)

The Lord said to his people, “I scattered you in all directions. But now, you exiles, escape from Babylonia and return to Jerusalem.

This is not a passage about the 3rd heaven. Knucklehead eschatology.


Postvieww asks Psalm 3704:

Jeremiah 49: 36 And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come.

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does this event take place on the earth?

2. Does the four winds in this passage refer to heaven where God dwells?

Daniel 7: 2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Is the event Daniels is describing on this earth?

2. Are the four winds in this passage Daniel described that strove on the great sea winds from heaven where God dwells?

Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Is the event Daniel describing in this passage on this earth?

2. Will the “four notable” come up toward the four winds of HEAVEN where God dwells?

Zechariah 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the Lord.

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does this event take place on this earth?

2. Does the four winds of the heaven in this passage refer to heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 24: 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Two questions;

1. What make the use of “four wind” different in this passage different from the others ?

2. Since Jesus clearly comes to this earth in Matt 24:30 people here see Him. How is it the angels who He sends from here (earth) to gather would have to go back to heaven to gather the elect since 1 Thessalonians 4:14 says them that sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him, and Jude 14 says He comes with ten thousands of His saints, and Zechariah 14:5 says He will come and all the saints will be with Him?

No need to attack me personally just answer the simple questions with simple answers.

Even “knuckelheads” can understand yes and no, and straight forward answers to simple questions.

Are you really this obtuse? Let's find out.

A gathering is a rapture.

Isaiah 33:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
And Your plunder shall be gathered
Like the gathering of the caterpillar;
As the running to and fro of locusts,
He shall run upon them.​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do caterpillars get rapture?

2. Do caterpillars get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 24:28 New King James Version (NKJV)
For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do eagles get rapture?

2. Do eagles get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 13:29 New King James Version (NKJV)
But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do the tares get rapture?

2. Do the tares get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 13:41 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does the wicked get rapture?

2. Does the wicked get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Revelation 16:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does the antichrist get rapture during Armageddon?

2. Does the antichrist get rapture from heaven where God dwells?












.

 

[Psalm3704]

You didn’t address the point, explain how you can insert word mansions for chambers?

You wouldn't be able to comprehend it had I explain it to you. How much have you learned so far from all that i've written to you?

Much easier to just poke fun at your brilliance.











.

 

[Psalm3704]

Psalm3704 said:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 is not a scripture on the rapture.

Paul's scripture on the rapture is in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

So if 2 Thess 2:1 is not a rapture (resurrection) passage, is it a second coming passage? By what method of “Knucklehead eschatology” does one divide up, coming of the Lord passages?

Read this sherlock. See if you can solve this. It's those on earth in Mark 13:27b in the OT. This is what the gathering is.

Ezekiel 39:25-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”​

.

 

[Riberra]

Wrong number Riberra. You talk about the souls of Christian martyrs than you give me numbers on Christians today and throughout history.

We are talking about the souls of the martyred dead in Christ since the opening of the 5th seal. Read what you wrote below. We are talking about Revelation 6:9-11, the martyrs who's souls are kept under the altar. That's the number I'm asking about.
'http://www.christianforums.com/bible/revelation/6:9-11/']Revelation 6:9-11[/URL] makes my point perfectly ,John saw the SOULS of the martyrs in Heaven not their resurrected bod

Revelation 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Check the news and you will notice that our brethrens are being tortured and killed everyday in Muslim countries because they are Christians ..fulfilling verse 11. It seem that we are in the second phase of the 5 th Seal ...We can thanks God that untill now we are escaping these things.

If you have read my previous post correctly you would have not missed:

Since the time of Christ to year 2,000 it is estimated that 70 millions Christians have been murdered/martyred for their faith and this number continues to grow in the new millennium as over 400 new martyrs are killed everyday.
Source:
http://www.gordonconwell.edu/resources/documents/wct_martyrs_extract.pdf

 

[Postvieww]

You wouldn't be able to comprehend it had I explain it to you. How much have you learned so far from all that i've written to you?

Much easier to just poke fun at your brilliance.











.

How much have you learned so far from all that i've written to you?

I’ve learned a lot. I’ve learned when you can’t,or won’t answer a simple question you resort to name calling , patting yourself on the back for how smart you are, and making sure you point out how stupid you think anyone is who would dare challenge your doctrine. All of this tells me of if you really knew as much as you thought you knew you would not use all of these diversionary tactics to avoid hard answers to questions that show Pre-trb for what it really is.


Much easier to just poke fun at your brilliance.

Which fruit of the Spirit is this? My, my you are such a humble man.

Oh yea, I was wrong when I believed the pre-trib fairy tale for many years.

 

[Postvieww]

Are you really this obtuse? Let's find out.

Isaiah 33:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
And Your plunder shall be gathered
Like the gathering of the caterpillar;
As the running to and fro of locusts,
He shall run upon them.​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do caterpillars get rapture?

2. Do caterpillars get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 24:28 New King James Version (NKJV)
For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do eagles get rapture?

2. Do eagles get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 13:29 New King James Version (NKJV)
But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do the tares get rapture?

2. Do the tares get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 13:41 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does the wicked get rapture?

2. Does the wicked get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Revelation 16:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does the antichrist get rapture during Armageddon?

2. Does the antichrist get rapture from heaven where God dwells?












.

Proverbs 15:14

 

[FredVB]

There is no-one currently in heaven with resurrected bodies. It is their souls currently in heaven The verses... regarding the day of Christ for Christians to stand before Him and have our lives reviewed is something every generation looks to. The rapture/resurrection hasn't happen, and neither has the day of Christ.
When the day of Christ does begin, the church, believers will have been resurrected/raptured to heaven, while the great tribulation, the Day of Christ here on earth takes place.

I couldn’t find a scripture for this?

I know of the Day of the Lord being mentioned in the Bible, which would be the Day of Yahweh, but I don't know of the phrase of Day of Christ in the Bible.

I think there is time yet, as things in this world, generally, deteriorate, cities will collapse, America itself will become more irrelevant, one way or another, before great tribulations that are in biblical prophecy actually come. This would be with the final power of the world's systems rising, with the prophesied beast, corresponding to the Antichrist to come, to be in power. Judgments from God will already be coming, for the continuing wickedness of the unrepentant of the world. The redeemed in Christ are taken out before this, likely just before this, those judgments are not for those for whom Christ has borne judgment already. But troubling times will yet be experienced sooner, and there are responsibilities for us.

 

[Postvieww]

I know of the Day of the Lord being mentioned in the Bible, which would be the Day of Yahweh, but I don't know of the phrase of Day of Christ in the Bible.

I think there is time yet, as things in this world, generally, deteriorate, cities will collapse, America itself will become more irrelevant, one way or another, before great tribulations that are in biblical prophecy actually come. This would be with the final power of the world's systems rising, with the prophesied beast, corresponding to the Antichrist to come, to be in power. Judgments from God will already be coming, for the continuing wickedness of the unrepentant of the world. The redeemed in Christ are taken out before this, likely just before this, those judgments are not for those for whom Christ has borne judgment already. But troubling times will yet be experienced sooner, and there are responsibilities for us.

2 Thess 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

 

[Psalm3704]

If you have read my previous post correctly you would have not missed:

Since the time of Christ to year 2,000 it is estimated that 70 millions Christians have been murdered/martyred for their faith and this number continues to grow in the new millennium as over 400 new martyrs are killed everyday.
Source:
http://www.gordonconwell.edu/resources/documents/wct_martyrs_extract.pdf

Riberra, read what I said below.

I'm asking for the number of Christian martyred souls kept under the altar since the opening of the 5th seal mentioned in Revelation 6:9-11.

We are talking about the souls of the martyred dead in Christ since the opening of the 5th seal. Read what you wrote below. We are talking about Revelation 6:9-11, the martyrs who's souls are kept under the altar. That's the number I'm asking about.

.

 

[Psalm3704]

How much have you learned so far from all that i've written to you?

I’ve learned a lot. I’ve learned when you can’t,or won’t answer a simple question you resort to name calling , patting yourself on the back for how smart you are, and making sure you point out how stupid you think anyone is who would dare challenge your doctrine. All of this tells me of if you really knew as much as you thought you knew you would not use all of these diversionary tactics to avoid hard answers to questions that show Pre-trb for what it really is.

This is exactly my point. I can only get your attention when I write something about you. When I write about prophecy, it either goes over your head or you just never paid attention to what I wrote.

For example:

On this page, I wrote about you in posts #424 and #425. You immediately replied back. On post #426, I wrote about prophecy. You haven't responded yet.

Why do you think I constantly have to say "pay attention?"

So, have you figured out Ezekiel 39:25-29 is about?

Ezekiel 39:25-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”​

Much easier to just poke fun at your brilliance.

Which fruit of the Spirit is this? My, my you are such a humble man.

Oh yea, I was wrong when I believed the pre-trib fairy tale for many years.

I was humble. I called you brilliant. I resisted calling you the first word that came in my mind.

Do me a favor. Please don't use cyan.











.

 

[Psalm3704]

Proverbs 15:14

LOL. Now now, touchy touchy!













.

 

[Postvieww]

This is exactly my point. I can only get your attention when I write something about you. When I write about prophecy, it either goes over your head or you just never paid attention to what I wrote.

For example:

On this page, I wrote about you in posts #424 and #425. You immediately replied back. On post #426, I wrote about prophecy. You haven't responded yet.

Why do you think I constantly have to say "pay attention?"

So, have you figured out Ezekiel 39:25-29 is about?

Ezekiel 39:25-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”​

I was humble. I called you brilliant. I resisted calling you the first word that came in my mind.

Do me a favor. Please don't use cyan.











.

Nor have you responded to #423, or with straight forward answers to #421, nor the point about Isaiah 26 in post # 416, nor the point in #422 about the place prepared for us, nor the challenge to list the post # for the quotes you attributed to me, this is the 3rd time I’ve asked . You have some catching up to do before we can get to Ezekiel 39.

 

[Riberra]

Riberra, read what I said below.

I'm asking for the number of Christian martyred souls kept under the altar since the opening of the 5th seal mentioned in Revelation 6:9-11.

In post #413 you wrote :

Okay, you have my attention. I'll believe what you say if you can prove it. Show us how you do the calculation to find out how many believing souls are in heaven.

I have given the number in post #418 .I have proven my point that the BULK of the Church is already in Heaven which are the souls of 6.3 billions dead believers separated from their Earthly bodies which are in the presence of Jesus in Heaven .From that number it is estimated that 70 million Christians were slain and are part of the martyrs which continue to grow as 400 Christians are killed everyday for their fath based on a statistic made in year 2,000.

Make up your mind.Obviously you are changing the goal post..By the way talking with you is a total waste of time Bye, Bye ---JOKER.---

 

[Psalm3704]

In post #413 you wrote :

You know what I meant Riberra. We've been squabbling over this since post#347. Here you spoke on the martyred souls of Revelation 6:9-11. The ones who have died after the opening of the 5th seal with their souls kept under an altar.

Revelation 6:9-11 makes my point perfectly ,John saw the SOULS of the martyrs in Heaven not their resurrected body.

Revelation 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Check the news and you will notice that our brethrens are being tortured and killed everyday in Muslim countries because they are Christians ..fulfilling verse 11. It seem that we are in the second phase of the 5 th Seal ...We can thanks God that untill now we are escaping these things.​

Revelation 6:9-11 makes my point perfectly ,John saw the SOULS of the martyrs in Heaven not their resurrected body.

Revelation 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Check the news and you will notice that our brethrens are being tortured and killed everyday in Muslim countries because they are Christians ..fulfilling verse 11. It seem that we are in the second phase of the 5 th Seal ...We can thanks God that untill now we are escaping these things.

​

I have given the number in post #418 .I have proven my point that the BULK of the Church is already in Heaven which are the souls of 6.3 billions dead believers separated from their Earthly bodies which are in the presence of Jesus in Heaven .From that number it is estimated that 70 million Christians were slain and are part of the martyrs which continue to grow as 400 Christians are killed everyday for their fath based on a statistic made in year 2,000.

You gave me a number you wanted to show me, not the number I was asking for on the topic we've been talking about since post#347.

So? Are you gonna do a calculation on the number of martyred souls kept under an altar that have died since the opening of the 5th seal?

Make up your mind.Obviously you are changing the goal post..By the way talking with you is a total waste of time Bye, Bye ---JOKER.---

My mind had never changed. I'm asking for the number of martyred souls kept under an altar since the opening of the 5th seal.

By the way talking with you is a total waste of time Bye, Bye ---JOKER.---

Riberra, don't make claims you can't keep. You'll be back. You can't resist trying to disprove the pre-tribulation rapture.

Whenever you wanna continue this debate, just show me the calculation for Revelation 6:9-11.













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[Psalm3704]

Nor have you responded to #423, or with straight forward answers to #421, nor the point about Isaiah 26 in post # 416, nor the point in #422 about the place prepared for us, nor the challenge to list the post # for the quotes you attributed to me, this is the 3rd time I’ve asked . You have some catching up to do before we can get to Ezekiel 39.

Oh okay, I can play your game. Let's take care of the first post on the top of this page: #421.

I'll answer your questions in post#421 if you answer my reply (post#424) first. Just answer the questions below. Remember, beggars can't be choosers, so tell me all you know.

Are you really this obtuse? Let's find out.

Isaiah 33:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
And Your plunder shall be gathered
Like the gathering of the caterpillar;
As the running to and fro of locusts,
He shall run upon them.​

​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do caterpillars get rapture?

2. Do caterpillars get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 24:28 New King James Version (NKJV)
For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.​

​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do eagles get rapture?

2. Do eagles get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 13:29 New King James Version (NKJV)
But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.​

​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do the tares get rapture?

2. Do the tares get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 13:41 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,​

​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does the wicked get rapture?

2. Does the wicked get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Revelation 16:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.​

​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does the antichrist get rapture during Armageddon?

2. Does the antichrist get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Are you really this obtuse? Let's find out.

Isaiah 33:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
And Your plunder shall be gathered
Like the gathering of the caterpillar;
As the running to and fro of locusts,
He shall run upon them.​

​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do caterpillars get rapture?

2. Do caterpillars get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 24:28 New King James Version (NKJV)
For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.​

​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do eagles get rapture?

2. Do eagles get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 13:29 New King James Version (NKJV)
But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.​

​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Do the tares get rapture?

2. Do the tares get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Matthew 13:41 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,​

​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does the wicked get rapture?

2. Does the wicked get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

Revelation 16:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.​

​

Two questions simple yes or no will suffice.

1. Does the antichrist get rapture during Armageddon?

2. Does the antichrist get rapture from heaven where God dwells?

.

 

[ebedmelech]

In post #413 you wrote :

I have given the number in post #418 .I have proven my point that the BULK of the Church is already in Heaven which are the souls of 6.3 billions dead believers separated from their Earthly bodies which are in the presence of Jesus in Heaven .From that number it is estimated that 70 million Christians were slain and are part of the martyrs which continue to grow as 400 Christians are killed everyday for their fath based on a statistic made in year 2,000.

Does a point really need to be proven here Riberra? I don't think so. Take a look at Revelation 7:9:
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

This is representative of the 144,000 which John HEARD numbered. It's after John HEARS those numbered in Revelation 7:4-8 that he looks and SEES what it really is...which is the great innumerable multitude of believers. This is the vision John sees.

Since the passage says they are INNUMERABLE...why try to even number them???

 

[Riberra]

Does a point really need to be proven here Riberra? I don't think so. Take a look at Revelation 7:9:
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

This is representative of the 144,000 which John HEARD numbered. It's after John HEARS those numbered in Revelation 7:4-8 that he looks and SEES what it really is...which is the great innumerable multitude of believers. This is the vision John sees.

Since the passage says they are INNUMERABLE...why try to even number them???

It is always interesting to get a good approximation.I was impressed that 6,3 billion SOULS of believers are actually in Heaven .Now the question is if the great multitude of Revelation 7:9-14 represent the souls of the believers who have died from natural death or the souls of those who have been slain for their testimony of Jesus.We know that they have not been raptured while they were alive but that they came out of great tribulation / ie / the tribulation of the Christians martyrs which goes on since John wrote the Book of Revelation.

We know that the Christians who will refuse to worship the Beast and refuse the mark will begin to arrive in Heaven as mentionned in Revelation 15.


70 millions Christians have been slain/martyred since the time of Christ to year 2,000.Since the beginning of the new millennium 400 Christians are slain/ martyred everyday.

http://www.gordonconwell.edu/resources/documents/wct_martyrs_extract.pdf

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


It seem that God provide a special importance to the Christians who died martyrs (SAINTS) -First resurrection-

versus the Christians who died from natural death ----Great White Throne Judgment.