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Am I really a Christian?

Martinius

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This is great (I mean that) - I am perhaps the first person to be brutally honest with her...and you want to tell me she needs more fluff...one step at a time. Got it!

Wait - let me highlight this - she needs to see this too.
Brutal I agree with, but no more honest than anyone else. This is not fluff, it is responding in a caring and concerned way to someone who is searching. People need to find their own way and figure things out for themselves, and cannot be just told what they must do. Beating someone over the head with absolutes will turn them off, not convert them. She is asking for help and guidance, not a detailed map. But if she likes your way better, I will step aside.
 
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ScottA

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Brutal I agree with, but no more honest than anyone else. This is not fluff, it is responding in a caring and concerned way to someone who is searching. People need to find their own way and figure things out for themselves, and cannot be just told what they must do. Beating someone over the head with absolutes will turn them off, not convert them. She is asking for help and guidance, not a detailed map. But if she likes your way better, I will step aside.
I would/will gladly apologize to followthestar for my stern tone - but my sense is that the typical, contemporary Christian approach has for the most part failed and it's time for a radical, but honest, shift.

Followthestar...if you are reading on...please know that we want the best for you - even if we express it differently. :groupray:
 
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hedrick

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The thread is weird because a question was posed in the liberal forum but many of the answers are from people who I think would not self-identify as liberal.

Does it matter? Maybe. Not all Christians would consider “Do you accept that you are a sinner who needs Jesus as your savior?” the first question to ask.

In my view a Christian is a follower of Christ. But being a follower of Christ has many implications, and different Christians emphasize different ones. I don’t think many of us would think that the place to start is that you’re going to be judged for rebellion if you don’t accept Jesus. I’m not denying that God will judge us, though maybe not in quite the way some Christians think. It’s just that I don’t think most of us think that’s the place to start. I certainly hope that Christians have higher motivations than saving themselves from judgement.

If someone is interested in Christianity, I think the recommendation from most of the actual liberal participants is to start with the Gospels. If being a Christian means being a follower of Jesus, then you need to start by getting a conception of who Jesus is.

I’d probably do it with the aid of some kind of guide. You can probably get enough just from reading the Gospels to think that Jesus is worth following. But knowing the historical and religious background is useful. The most conventional recommendation would be some kind of commentary. N T Wright is well regarded here, and has some excellent brief guides intended for people like you. I’d be inclined to start with Matthew, and use http://www.amazon.com/Matthew-Every...1461808002&sr=8-2&keywords=matthew+n+t+wright as a guide (and the second volume for the second half).

A more interesting recommendation would be Harvey Cox’s book “When Jesus came to Harvard.” Despite the title (which comes from the fact that it’s based on a course he gave at Harvard) it’s a walk through Jesus life, from a perspective that I think you’d like.

The other thing to note is that Christianity is a community enterprise. Everyone has to make a commitment for themselves. But Jesus gathered a community of disciples, and many of his teachings are about living in community. I would strongly suggest finding a good mainline to liberal Church* and talking with the pastor about the best way to learn about the community. Simply showing up one Sunday for worship is not necessarily the best way, since churches are like the icebergs where supposedly only 10% show above the water. The church service is where the whole community gathers, but much of its life occurs in smaller groups and in doing specific activities.

Talk with us here, as well.

As you learn about Jesus and the fellowship he set up, there’s a good chance you’ll decide you want to be a follower.


————

*You seem to be in Australia. That means I can’t help you identify specific denominations. Unfortunately a seeker with the kind of background you have would likely find 90% of churches pretty offputting. But there should be liberal churches even down under.
 
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Martinius

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If someone is interested in Christianity, I think the recommendation from most of the actual liberal participants is to start with the Gospels. If being a Christian means being a follower of Jesus, then you need to start by getting a conception of who Jesus is.

My thought exactly, but you say it way better. I have read Cox but not the book you mention. I like that suggestion.

The other thing to note is that Christianity is a community enterprise. Everyone has to make a commitment for themselves. But Jesus gathered a community of disciples, and many of his teachings are about living in community...
Good suggestions on how to get started. I like the idea of meeting with someone at a church in her area.

One cannot be a Christian by oneself. The connection with a community is essential. Hope she can find a good one in her area. And I hope she reads your post.
 
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ScottA

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The thread is weird because a question was posed in the liberal forum
Unfortunately, when you see topics come up in the Forums Index, you can tell what general category they are in, but not the specific category. As a result, I have replied many times to a topic, only to find out later that it was being addressed from some other angle. Which is understandable in some respects - like the time I got told to get off the "Teen Only" area - but otherwise it bugs me, because family shouldn't have such segregation. Oh well.
 
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FireDragon76

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. Which is understandable in some respects - like the time I got told to get off the "Teen Only" area - but otherwise it bugs me, because family shouldn't have such segregation. Oh well.

"Family"? The Lutheran pastor I know said it best, the differences between mainline/progressive Christianity and all the other churches basically are the differences between different religions- there is only a veneer of common ground. We have the same creeds and the same basic beliefs, but what they actually mean to people can be night and day different, because underlying it all are different presuppositions about what the important questions about life really are. That might not be a palatable message on Christian Forums, but it's the reality.
 
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ScottA

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"Family"? The Lutheran pastor I know said it best, the differences between mainline/progressive Christianity and all the other churches basically are the differences between different religions- there is only a veneer of common ground. We have the same creeds and the same basic beliefs, but what they actually mean to people can be night and day different, because underlying it all are different presuppositions about what the important questions about life really are. That might not be a palatable message on Christian Forums, but it's the reality.
Yep, typical family...God love'em...quite embarrassing.
 
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FireDragon76

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Brutal I agree with, but no more honest than anyone else. This is not fluff, it is responding in a caring and concerned way to someone who is searching.

I just don't understand why being a Christian is supposed to mean jettisoning intellectual honesty with some people. It's not intellectually honest to pretend any religious belief is unquestionable truth. Conservative fundamentalists might call that "relativism" but that's just maturity.

Furthermore, it sidesteps having to talk about the gritty details and messiness of real life. It bypasses having to be vulnerable, and being vulnerable is part of what it means to love.
 
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hedrick

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I consider myself part of the same family with conservative Christians. But I do recognize that we often give different answers to people's questions.

Having CF start with a list of hot topics tends to increase the number of people posting in places they really shouldn't be.
 
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graceandpeace

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Was there something I said that was wrong?

I would say the posts do not represent the spirit of liberal Christianity. The only point that matters, however, is that non-liberal Christians are not supposed to teach or proselytize in this forum.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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I would say the posts do not represent the spirit of liberal Christianity. The only point that matters, however, is that non-liberal Christians are not supposed to teach or proselytize in this forum.
Well, I could care less if my posts don't conform to your idea of what Liberal Christianity is. I was saved by picking up a Bible and God revealing the Gospel to me, so I'm not concerned with beating around the bush in intellectual pursuits. To me, you either believe the truth by God's Spirit or you don't. However, I'll respect the forum guidelines and leave the thread.
 
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Martinius

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Well, I could care less if my posts don't conform to your idea of what Liberal Christianity is. I was saved by picking up a Bible and God revealing the Gospel to me, so I'm not concerned with beating around the bush in intellectual pursuits. To me, you either believe the truth by God's Spirit or you don't. However, I'll respect the forum guidelines and leave the thread.
"One day I was led to pick up a Bible" is what you said in your testimony post. You say here that you were "saved by picking up a Bible". Yet when I suggested that this young lady do just that you put my suggestion down, saying that "reading the Bible does not make you a Christian". I didn't claim it would, but that it was a place to start. If it worked for you, why not someone else?

The purpose of this thread should have been to give insights and guidance to a seeker asking for help. We haven't seen the OP here in over a day; our infighting may have chased her away.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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"One day I was led to pick up a Bible" is what you said in your testimony post. You say here that you were "saved by picking up a Bible". Yet when I suggested that this young lady do just that you put my suggestion down, saying that "reading the Bible does not make you a Christian". I didn't claim it would, but that it was a place to start. If it worked for you, why not someone else?

The purpose of this thread should have been to give insights and guidance to a seeker asking for help. We haven't seen the OP here in over a day; our infighting may have chased her away.
The action of picking up the Bible obviously wasn't what saved me, but rather it was God who revealed the Gospel to me through the Bible. You suggested that she go and study the scriptures, which is good, but you could have shared the Gospel as well. Ultimately the Gospel saves, not the Bible. I'm not saying you disagree; I just don't want there to be any misunderstanding about what I believe.

Regardless of what chased her away, she is in God's hands.
 
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Martinius

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The action of picking up the Bible obviously wasn't what saved me, but rather it was God who revealed the Gospel to me through the Bible. You suggested that she go and study the scriptures, which is good, but you could have shared the Gospel as well. Ultimately the Gospel saves, not the Bible. I'm not saying you disagree; I just don't want there to be any misunderstanding about what I believe.

Regardless of what chased her away, she is in God's hands.
"God revealed the Gospel to me through the Bible". I think we were both pointing in the same direction but from different starting points. I chose not to share more at that point to avoid overwhelming her and chasing her away. Before saying more, I wanted to get a response from her and enter into a dialogue, rather than lecture her.

We hope and pray she is in God's hands.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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"God revealed the Gospel to me through the Bible". I think we were both pointing in the same direction but from different starting points. I chose not to share more at that point to avoid overwhelming her and chasing her away. Before saying more, I wanted to get a response from her and enter into a dialogue, rather than lecture her.
Right, well her overall question was if she was a Christian or not, so I thought I would first gauge if she truly was or not. If she was then she would have answered my question positively. If she answered negatively then I would have followed an approach similar to yours. I'm sorry for our misunderstanding.

We hope and pray she is in God's hands.
She definitely is.
 
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Gwen-is-new!

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I Again, Christians disagree about many things, but you can find basic summaries of the faith & its history.

I SOOOOOOO wish someone had told me this when I first gave my life to Christ, and started digging into His word. I didn't even know there was such a thing as "liberal" Christianity/theology and when I slowly figured this out, I got really angry, confused, and beat my head against the wall in confusion almost every day for about 3 years :(
 
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Gwen-is-new!

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I do consider myself a Christian to some extent, because I do feel a sense of 'freedom' when I look at stuff like crystals. I try to read the bible but I just get overwhelmed. I'm using a 40 day NT plan on the Bible app but I don't plan to go through the OT yet. I get most of my info from online, podcasts, videos.

followthestar -
I SO can relate to feeling overwhelmed when you read the bible! When I first gave my life to Christ, I knew nothing about the bible! All I knew was that I was kicking myself OFF the thrown of my life - I was done with me and my way(s). I am going to bow down to Jesus Christ as LORD.

I would go to bible studies, and think to myself "can I get an English translation please".. I wasn't able to answer the questions asked in bible groups - I didn't even understand the questions! I would attend service after service and think the sermon may as well been in Japanese because I was so lost due to my bible illiteracy. BUT, now when I reflect back to that time in my life (17 yrs ago), I almost miss it! It's a sweet place to be in the journey. You do your part - seek HIM with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and HE will do the rest - He has so many TRUTHS to bring to light in you, and HE has so much revelation about HIMSELF to make known to you.

Just trust His timing, and PLEASE don't be hard on yourself when you have your OFF days, or days you're apathetic toward Him. You are young, you have some false ideas (crystals, etc) that have taken root in your mind - it will take time to rid yourself of these concepts/habits and replace them God's AMAZING Truth and grace. We are ALL on a journey, and running this Christian race, and none of us are doing it perfectly!

Keep SEEKING HIM Girl, and know that HE has began a good work in you! Praying for you!

New International Version (phil 1:6).
being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
 
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FireDragon76

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The action of picking up the Bible obviously wasn't what saved me, but rather it was God who revealed the Gospel to me through the Bible. You suggested that she go and study the scriptures, which is good, but you could have shared the Gospel as well.

The Gospel is in the Bible, literally. At most churches here on WWMC, the Gospel is read every sunday. But the Gospel is not just "admit you are a bad person, you break rules, and need Jesus as your savior". That's a horrible place to start talking to anyone about what it means to be a Christian
 
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ScottA

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The Gospel is in the Bible, literally. At most churches here on WWMC, the Gospel is read every sunday. But the Gospel is not just "admit you are a bad person, you break rules, and need Jesus as your savior". That's a horrible place to start talking to anyone about what it means to be a Christian
Unfortunately, there are as many attempts at sharing or promoting the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ, as there are people, and we will not find them all to be agreeable. It would be nice to think that going to a church service would be like a walk in a park where we are repeatedly led by that obscured, but beautiful narrow gate leading to life everlasting, so that we may discover it amidst the fragrant flowers and the ever-upright and groomed - but that's not real. What is real...is that we thrashed the garden and were thrown out, and now the only way back is to find the Guy who braved the thorns and made the way clear...in spite of those of us who do a poor job of shedding a light upon the path.

Nonetheless, we should seek it out.
 
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Gwen-is-new!

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The Gospel is in the Bible, literally. At most churches here on WWMC, the Gospel is read every sunday. But the Gospel is not just "admit you are a bad person, you break rules, and need Jesus as your savior". That's a horrible place to start talking to anyone about what it means to be a Christian

Why is that a bad place to start? Many are stuck at exactly that place - the A in the ABCs of evangelism. Can't move forward if you can't admit you are a sinner. Maybe there is a difference in what it means to become a Christian and what is means to be a Christian?
 
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