Am I really a Christian?

[FireDragon76]

I'm going to suggest there is nothing necessarily wrong with being interested in crystals and essential oils, or even astrology (though I personally just find astrology wishful thinking). The liberal spirit is to decide for yourself these things. Christians have not been of one mind throughout the centuries on these things (astrological symbolism was quite prominent in Christian institutions and architecture in the middle ages), and the New Age movement has a lot of positive emphases that many western Christians have forgot about- the emphasis on physicality and holism for starters. There's no need to have a false dichotomy of "Jesus vs. ...", it needlessly closes minds.

 

[FireDragon76]

Why is that a bad place to start? Many are stuck at exactly that place - the A in the ABCs of evangelism. Can't move forward if you can't admit you are a sinner. Maybe there is a difference in what it means to become a Christian and what is means to be a Christian?

Well, at the churches I have attended, to become a Christian means to accept baptism... in some cases that is a purely passive affair, in the case of children. And that is the case in many liberal or progressive/mainline churches. It has to do with our theology of the sacraments and our views about grace and justification apart from works.

So the OP may in some sense already be a Christian, since they were baptized as an infant, and maybe just needs to figure out what that means for him or herself. Just go to a church and see if it appeals to you, basically. There's nothing else required.

 

[Martinius]

...the OP may in some sense already be a Christian, since they were baptized as an infant, and maybe just needs to figure out what that means for him or herself. Just go to a church and see if it appeals to you, basically. There's nothing else required.

I would say there is a whole bunch more required. And for someone to figure out what being a Christian means, they need some education and some guidance. Not just shopping for a church like you would a new car.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Everyone's entitled to go through their own journey at their own pace as they see fit. The question we all need to ask ourselves perhaps is "Am I truly seeking God/the truth?"

 

[FireDragon76]

Why is that a bad place to start? Many are stuck at exactly that place - the A in the ABCs of evangelism. Can't move forward if you can't admit you are a sinner. Maybe there is a difference in what it means to become a Christian and what is means to be a Christian?

That goes to the heart of the issue, the significant differences between Christians on what exactly the Gospel is, and how to present it. There are many here on WWMC that would feel the "Roman Road" is incomplete or misleading. And things that Evangelicals or Pentecostals might see as evangelism, we see as proselytism.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

I read the rules for the forum and didn't realize I was in the liberal section! But, now based on the comments in here, I don't think I understand what liberal Christianity is! Can someone give me a super layman's explanation? I always thought Liberals Christians don't view the bible as authoritative, and morals align with political liberals?

 

[Martinius]

I read the rules for the forum and didn't realize I was in the liberal section! But, now based on the comments in here, I don't think I understand what liberal Christianity is! Can someone give me a super layman's explanation? I always thought Liberals Christians don't view the bible as authoritative, and morals align with political liberals?

That question has been asked before, and the answers are always a little murky. I consider myself a liberal Christian, and I do not see every line of the Bible as being the "word of God." Some on this forum may see it differently. My morals do not align entirely with political liberals, and it is a mistake to assume that (you are not alone, most of those of the "right" assume all liberals hold the exact same values, all of them bad). I believe in a pastoral, Gospel oriented Church rather than a doctrinal, authoritarian church.

In reading the posts here, you should realize that not all posters on this thread subscribe to liberal Christian views. Some come here to present their own views or to argue against others here. It is simply the nature of these forums.

As to defining liberal Christianity, Hedrick has done a very good summary of it. See post #23 on this thread for his view.

Post #42 mentions Baptism. I do not see baptism as making one a Christian, especially when it is infant baptism. I think that Sacrament has been skewed from its original meaning and purpose. Now, being Catholic, that means I disagree with my own Church about this. But some of the greatest theologians have taken opposing views about it so I do not feel alone.

 

[FireDragon76]

Can someone give me a super layman's explanation? I always thought Liberals Christians don't view the bible as authoritative, and morals align with political liberals?

Hedrick has the best explanation around from an academic standpoint.

The best explanation I would give is that liberal Christians are intellectually critical when it comes to theology, and more individualistic when it comes to discussing ethics and morality.

I wouldn't say liberals see no authority in the Bible, but this authority is handled through the critical methods of theology. If a Bible passage appears to command stoning adulterers, for instance, we aren't going to automatically assume that's the right thing for us to do.

If you are Protestant, you automatically share some things in common with some liberal Christians, since Protestantism is basically a product of liberal humanism in the late renaissance. The idea that anybody can read the Bible apart from church tradition or a confessional community is even quite radical, even from a liberal/Progressive Christian viewpoint, and it is something that some mainline Protestant traditions have backed away from. Esp. because dogmatic adherence to this idea (the perspecuity and clarity of Scriptures) lead to religious wars in Europe that were some of the most bloody in history prior to the 20th century. So a moderate liberalism emerged from that, especially influenced by the Enlightenment, that relied less upon dogmatic claims and more upon higher criticism, reason, and experience. In short, liberal Christians do not believe the Bible is necessarily a clear window into God's mind or will, except in a limited sense. When people disagree, it doesn't automatically make the other person wrong, because we admit that the Bible is difficult to understand exhaustively.

Here on CF "liberal/progressive Christian" seems to be an umbrella of different ways of being Christian. There's a statement of purpose sticky at the top of the forum that talks about what makes Whosoever Will, May Come different from moderate or conservative subforums.

 

[hedrick]

I read the rules for the forum and didn't realize I was in the liberal section! But, now based on the comments in here, I don't think I understand what liberal Christianity is! Can someone give me a super layman's explanation? I always thought Liberals Christians don't view the bible as authoritative, and morals align with political liberals?

This comes up so much that I've just created a blog post, rather than posting the same thing over and over. http://www.christianforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/what-is-liberal-christianity-an-faq.199420/

We typically don't see the Bible as a separate authority. Rather, we see Jesus as our authority, and the Bible as how we know about him. Because the Bible is from a practical point of view the only way of knowing what Jesus did and taught, what we learn from it has authority. But because we regard it as a witness to the Word and not the Word itself, it has to be used with care, understanding the limitations of the witness.

In many areas of theology it’s possible to err in two different directions. With Scripture that is true as well. On the one hand, we can err by thinking that the Bible is the Logos. On the other hand, we can err by not paying attention to Jesus’ teaching, and replacing it with what feels good.

 

[followthestar]

Hey guys - here's an update.
I was talking to my mum. Neither of us believe in crystals. The thought of doing magic - aside from herbs - feels weird. I couldn't flip to the 'magic' page of a book I was reading (21st Century Goddess) because I felt sick.

I want to be Christian but... My friends and family y'know? My dad and my friends aren't religious - mum said dad knew there was someone out there, a higher being. My best friend is Atheist, or Wicca. My mum and I want to find a church but all the churches are really clique-y or too much like Hillsong (I'd like a balance between modern like Hillsong but with quiet times)

 

[FireDragon76]

Read the Gospels, become familiar with Jesus. Get busy praying. Otherwise, you won't know what to look for in a church.

This might sound odd to you, because it goes against so much of how people in modern western countries are raised... but fitting in socially isn't the most important thing to consider when evaluating a church. The kind of religion that's about chumming around with nice friends is really a religion of social propriety that can mask a multitude of sins. It's the sort of thing Jesus did not really care for, either. Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace, but a sword. Swords are dangerous and divisive things, they literally split things in two. Sometimes following Jesus means not being particularly nice or proper or sociable... it just depends. Just make sure whatever church you go to, the people have the fruits of being a believer in Jesus. They don't just talk about Jesus, they try to live like him too. That's the one thing you need to consider in that area.

Are there any traditional churches where you live (smaller churches with fewer people, with pews, sermons, hymns, organs, and distinctive architecture?) I really think those are best. While we are more liberal than most here on CF in certain ways, I think we tend to appreciate the wisdom of traditions that have stood the test of time, especially when it comes to worship and fellowship. A lot of big churches are following Christian missional theology based heavily on secular business models, which means ultimately its about getting bodies in the door and into the seats. But as Hedrick has pointed out to me in the past, it's more important to find a community that is being faithful than being big. At this point, your only guide to faithfulness is going to be the New Testament in the Bible, especially the Gospels.


I know little about Australia's religious culture so I can't give more advice than that.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace, but a sword. Swords are dangerous and divisive things, they literally split things in two. Sometimes following Jesus means not being particularly nice or proper or sociable... it just depends.

Its hard to know whether we are really following Jesus or not. Maybe half of us are delusional.

 

[followthestar]

Haha yeah, maybe we are

I'll probably join some Christian groups when I go to uni and go from there.. idk. Again, it comes in on-and-off waves... Right now it's 'on'.

I'm extremely shy too :/ I hate crowds because I can't see, but I love loud music (I'm sensitive to other sounds, but that's beside the point).

Australia's culture in terms of religion is... not the strongest. For example, when I moved last year, I went to youth group with a girl who seemed really Christian. Yet at school, she was swearing and gossiping. I felt so uncomfortable to the point of being sick and left. I'm sure it's much the same for other Western countries.