Galatians 3: Under The Law?

[Sophrosyne]

If context matters, Jesus' claim of Lord of the Sabbath was explained: because, He and all priests, are exempt because they work on the Sabbath. Jesus always worked on the Sabbath.

It is like telling God he has to pay taxes to someone.... because everyone pays taxes. If one is already righteous without ever keeping the Law then why does one need to keep the Law on their own behalf in order to attain it?

 

[Mb_C]

Respectfully, Mb C
All your socalled objective facts seem questionable at best. Explain these scriptures please?
Jhn 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
Jhn 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

It seem clear that Jesus explained that circumcision was passed down from the fathers as to why it was performed on the Sabbath. This coincide exactly with what the scriptures say and prove.

I don't know why you bring this up, because I was saying circumcision came from the time of Abraham. If a boy was born on a Thursday night or Friday morning, then he was circumcised on the Sabbath (Friday evening to Saturday evening).

God explained that He gave the Children of Israel the Sabbath.
God made the Sabbath an exclusive covenant with one nation.

He gave it to them, yes, but not in the sense of making the 7th day just for them. God kept calling it "my sabbaths".

As for exclusivity, I had previously pointed out God's desire:
Isaiah 56:6 Also the aliens, that join themselves to the LORD, to minister unto Him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from profaning it, and holdeth fast by My covenant:

The fact that before leaving Egypt God told Moses what the COI, the foreigner and the stranger who join should keep ordinances going forward. Sabbath was not on the list. Circumcision was.

I believe Isaiah 56:6 applies.

You have some nerve to judge someone I've know for years as not a disciple of Christ.

Like I had written in the quote, I did not mean it as a slight to the character. Before being upset with me, you should look up what a rabbi's disciple meant historically. It's fine, it wasn't an insult if you had lived in those times - you can be a believer and be saved without being a disciple. Being a disciple isn't the criteria to be saved. When Jesus healed the demoniac at Gedarenes of demon possession, the man begged Jesus to let him follow Him (it was the euphemism of the times to become a disciple), but Jesus told him to go back home and spread the good news of what God did for him. A disciple is a believer + extra-normal dedication in mirroring everything the rabbi did. All are called to have faith in Jesus, but not all are called to be disciples. The thief on the cross was saved, but he hadn't had time to become a disciple.

If context matters, Jesus' claim of Lord of the Sabbath was explained: because, He and all priests, are exempt because they work on the Sabbath. Jesus always worked on the Sabbath.

Yes, it's true that God never stops working on the Sabbath. Hebrews 4 said that when He rested, He rested from all His works. He did all His resting at the end of Creation week. A disciple shouldn't be using the Sabbath as a day of sleeping in, because Jesus went to church and went around preaching and healing.

 

[Bob S]

I do.

Very good because some I debate with deny Paul as not being authentic.

That's a bit misleading don't you think, considering Jesus is the one who gave Moses those instructions in the first place?

Not at all, it is called the law of Moses. God is the author of all the covenants ever given to mankind.The Israelites were not under the covenant given to Abraham or Noah. Israel had a special covenant.

But obviously, that's not the point Jesus was making, otherwise He would have said that He is "Lord of everything". Jesus was reminding the Pharisees and scribes of who had the right to say what to do or not do on the Sabbath.

There is a point to be made and you seem to overlooked it. Jesus is/was Lord over everything present and past. He was Lord over the feasts, but that does not make it a requirement for Christians. Lord over the Israelite Sabbath does not make it a requirement for Christians.

Also, all the other special days were given after sin, whereas Sabbath predates sin.

As per scripture or Ellen? Proof please.

Well, the royal law is part of the Torah, so... you believe we're not to keep the royal law?

The Royal law of love is what Christians are gifted with. Read 1Jn 3 and especially verses 19 and on. Qh, I asked you to do that in my other post to you. did you?

Firstly, this clearly means you believe we are to keep the royal law.

Yes indeed I do.

Secondly, since you believe we are to keep the royal law, and the Sabbath is God's property, if we love Him, we should not be thinking of defiling His property.

This is where we part. Sabbath was a requirement for Israel and no other nation. If you want to call it Jesus' property well and good. He chose to give His property to Israel. There is no scripture where He ever gave his Sabbath property to the Gentiles or to Christians

Thirdly, no one can keep the law of God without the grace of Jesus.

Our law of God is not the Torah, it is as I have been hammering home the law of love and sure it is found in the old covenant. Sure we are to love our fellow man and never to lay a hand on him, never steal from him, never be arrogant towards him, never slander him, always show compassion and etc.. Do you notice some of the laws ,under the law of love are not found in the 10. Our command to love is all inclusive, it leaves out nothing that would wrong another.

Without the grace of Jesus, we would be under the law and as a result we cannot be subject to the law of God (the Greek words for 'under' and 'subject' are different, in case you're confused by this). Not being subject to the law of God is what causes us to be at enmity with God in the first place. With the grace of Jesus, the mind is no longer carnal and thus now subject to the law of God. (Romans 8:6-8)

No WE would not. Gentiles were not under the Torah. Christians are not subject to the laws given only to Israel. We have a new covenant of Grace, Grace to the laws Christians are to live by. We all fail to keep the law of love.Paul in writing to the church of Galatia wrote: 23 Before the coming of this faith we (Jews) were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. To me that means Jews are no longer under the Torah and to those who would put Christians under Israel's laws it just ain't so.

 

[Bob S]

This is actually an established historical fact about what the term "disciple" meant. It's not something from the Bible because this was a cultural concept of the Jews. Go look up the significance of "Come follow me" in Hebrew. It's a lot more than just believing a rabbi's school of thought.

Okay It is not a big issue with me, so as far as I am concerned I will drop the subject.

The New Testament doesn't teach to help the elderly cross the road either, but we are to do it out of love. Application of love, that's why. Furthermore, how can it not be out of love? The Sabbath was meant to be a blessing, but you make it out to be a burden. It's only a burden if you see it like the Pharisees - a day of not doing some things. Whereas if you see it like Jesus did - a day to do good and enjoy good, then it becomes a refreshing day.

Jesus did good everyday. The Sabbath issue came up because the Pharisees thought they could nail Jesus for breaking it. Everyday should be a blessing. The Sabbath was a ritual law of remembrance, remember creation and the Creator and remember how God brought Israel out of bondage. Gentiles were never in bondage and when we accept Jesus as Savior we remember Him in many ways. Our rest is in Jesus. Come unto me and I will give you rest.

He taught proper Sabbath observance to the Pharisees - He let them know it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath and relieve suffering.

He taught those under the law the same laws he was required to observe.

It's the historical definition of the word.

How about really answering my question.

That depends on how you define it. I don't observe the sacrificial system because Hebrews clearly states Jesus became High Priest and sacrifice

.
Wouldn't this defy Jesus statement 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished? This is relevant especially since you do not believe all has been accomplished.

I don't observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread per se, but I observe the Communion which is what the Passover was about... I'm not going to list all here, but if you so desire to go through each one here, then ok. But, a few of the laws definitely can't be kept now that Jesus is High Priest in heaven, like men's [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] laws and women's menses laws, since there's only the heavenly temple now. If you can find a modern day application, let me know. There are laws about slaves (indentured servants, not the same as Roman, English and American slaves) that I don't follow because I have no slaves. I'm vegetarian, but I believe in the clean/unclean laws being given for good reason.

Good subjects for another time. Just remember God gave Noah everything to eat. Gentiles domesticated pigs and I don't believe it was for footballs.

You got a checklist? Btw, Jesus did not keep the agricultural laws because they did not apply to carpentry. The laws were about context as well. "If you have crops", "If you have slaves", "If you have sex", "If you have children", etc.

Glad you recognize the fact that Jesus didn't pay tithe yet your church has in its fundamental beliefs that one must pay tithes and the prophet further states that if those who do not pay (the modified false) tithe will loose their eternal inheritance. According to Ellen Jesus would have lost His eternal inheritance.

Actually, it was already established post-Moses' time among the Israelites that tithe in money was ok. The point was tithing your financial gains.

Post Moses doesn't count my friend and Abraham was not required to pay a tithe on the spoils of war. It was his choice to do what he did. The Torah law required that all the tithe be pad in animals and or crops.

Hebrews says our High Priest is Jesus, so we tithe to the storehouse of His work (which was the purpose of the tithe - to support the ministry of the priests), so it becomes the ministers' salaries.

Do as you please, but to tell people that they have to pay a tithe in money when Jesus didn't even pay anything is just plain wrong and is a blatant lie. Christians are to give as the Holy Spirit inspires us to give. There is no demand in the new covenant as to how much or when to give.

 

[bugkiller]

I don't know why you bring this up, because I was saying circumcision came from the time of Abraham. If a boy was born on a Thursday night or Friday morning, then he was circumcised on the Sabbath (Friday evening to Saturday evening).


He gave it to them, yes, but not in the sense of making the 7th day just for them. God kept calling it "my sabbaths".

As for exclusivity, I had previously pointed out God's desire:
Isaiah 56:6 Also the aliens, that join themselves to the LORD, to minister unto Him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from profaning it, and holdeth fast by My covenant:


I believe Isaiah 56:6 applies.


Like I had written in the quote, I did not mean it as a slight to the character. Before being upset with me, you should look up what a rabbi's disciple meant historically. It's fine, it wasn't an insult if you had lived in those times - you can be a believer and be saved without being a disciple. Being a disciple isn't the criteria to be saved. When Jesus healed the demoniac at Gedarenes of demon possession, the man begged Jesus to let him follow Him (it was the euphemism of the times to become a disciple), but Jesus told him to go back home and spread the good news of what God did for him. A disciple is a believer + extra-normal dedication in mirroring everything the rabbi did. All are called to have faith in Jesus, but not all are called to be disciples. The thief on the cross was saved, but he hadn't had time to become a disciple.


Yes, it's true that God never stops working on the Sabbath. Hebrews 4 said that when He rested, He rested from all His works. He did all His resting at the end of Creation week. A disciple shouldn't be using the Sabbath as a day of sleeping in, because Jesus went to church and went around preaching and healing.

What you say applies only if one is under the covenant given to Israel alone. The problem is the NC which includes everyone in the complete world doesn't subject anyone to the covenant given to Israel alone. See Acts of the Apostles concerning multiple accounts of gentiles becoming Christians while the Apostles themselves say the gentiles aren't subject to the law (OC).

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Specifically, Matthew 5:17. The Greek word Jesus used for "fulfill" is also means "make complete". Now, I'm not saying "fulfill" is an incorrect translation, it is correct. It's just that in English, "fulfill" can have the implied meaning of "completing a deal and thus being free of obligation". However, in the context of Jesus saying "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets" and "whoever keeps and teaches them (the law and the prophets), he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven", Jesus did not mean "completing a deal and thus being free of obligation", but "make complete".

Perhaps you should examine both English words. Now if a contract [covenant in this case which is a contract] is completed, please explain how it still needs to be completed.

Why do you guys make keeping the 10C about obligation? Let's get down to the basics. Do you believe you have or ever had sin? (It's not some trick question, it's a leading question).

If it isn't an obligation how can it be a violation (sin or unrighteous behavior)?

Sorry but I don't follow your second question in relationship to the first. Yes I do believe I've sinned and that's exactly why I accept the free gift. I inherited the fallen nature of mankind and needed redemption. Thus I sinned without the law or knowledge of the law (10 C's).

No, I didn't. I understood that he was referring to the 10C as the "law of the land" for Israel and not for the Gentiles thus not applying to Gentiles. The problem with that analogy is that God doesn't see it that way. Micah 4:2 prophesied that people outside of Israel will go to "the mountain of the Lord" (historically Mount Horeb, but symbolically the throne of God) to learn the law of God because they want to.

For the Israelite the law was both the law of the land and their religious activity. In both ways the law had no jurisdiction over the gentile or the Christian.

Then indeed people don't learn the law of God from the Bible or the stone tablets. The law of God isn't restricted to the law issued to Israel. This is evidenced by numerous NT/OT passages that usually get the pronouns improperly assigned such as I John 3:23 or Gen 26:5 for instance. Doesn't this by itself prove one is led by the Spirit Gal 5:18?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Change does not mean getting rid of. It means tweaking. I know you think the change in verse 12 means "swapped/replaced", but it's not the Greek word used.

Nope. See Jer 31:31-33. It says specifically cut a new stone. It also says not according to (like) the previous one.

bugkiller

 

[Mb_C]

I've looked throughout the Bible and I've not seen any instruction for me... a Gentile Christian to keep the Sabbath Day.

Isaiah 56
3Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely separate me from His people." Nor let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree."
6"Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath And holds fast My covenant;
7Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples."

God had that promise for Gentiles before Jesus' earthly time, so it shows that God didn't plan on making the Sabbath Hebrew-exclusive. In that promise several hundred years before Jesus was born, it is true that no threat of punishment was given to the Gentiles for not keeping the Sabbath holy. However, God promised blessing and honour for those who did. ie. God had already begun to work on the Gentiles by way of invitation.

Irrelevant example as Christians don't advocate such things it isn't loving your neighbor to damage other people's property.

It is a relevant example, because of Isaiah 56:6. I was using what was written there to translate it into a modern analogy. The Hebrew word translated here as 'profane' also means 'desecrate' and 'pollute', which are forms of vandalism of what is holy.

They don't apply to us, there is plenty of examples in the New Testament to tell us what sin is WITHOUT bringing up the 10 commandments, in fact 9 of the 10 ARE listed in an example given by Jesus himself ironically the Sabbath was NOT mentioned at all.

Well clearly Jesus didn't tell His disciples anything averse to keeping the Sabbath holy, because they refused to embalm Jesus because it was the Sabbath day. They obviously loved Him very much, but keeping the Sabbath was more important than embalming Jesus.

If they don't have the Law then how can they know how to do complicated things of the Law.

Somehow Seth, Enoch, Joseph and Abimelek knew. Either it was passed down from mouth through generations through Adam's/Noah's/Abraham's interaction with God or God spoke to them directly.

It isn't the "exact" same thing but rather they aren't just going around hurting each other. The Sabbath commandment isn't one that you can just "do" without knowing what not to do.

Neither is the commandment to honour our parents something you can just "do". Different cultures had different definitions of honouring their parents. Cannibals are the most different ones that comes to mind.

The royal law is love your neighbor and love God, Did God ever mention punishing other nations for NOT keeping a Sabbath Holy? NO.

What do you think was the reason why God ordered a death sentence for those who curse their parents and break the Sabbath intentionally (this is different from forgetting)?

 

[bugkiller]

The prophecy is about what happens after Micah's time period. It's a statement of what will happen. It's rather sad that God would need to say a threat to get you to do something that is good.

Is there some reason why you think keeping the Sabbath holy is not something God would like you to do? Does God need to threaten you with punishment to get you to help old people cross the road? Sure, it was only to Israel that God specifically said they had to keep or they'd have consequences. But, did you ever think of why God did it to them?

Are you also not aware that the Sabbath still belonged to God before and after Sinai?

Here's an analogy: Let's say you live in a land in which the only law governing your family is only your rules and they can't apply to other people. You tell your kids NOT to throw paint at your car. Does it mean it's ok to you if your neighbours' kids throw paint at your car? Sure, you can punish your kids since your rules apply to them, but what about your neighbours' kids? After that, you hold a party that's invitation-only. Those neighbours' kids want to come, but they still want to throw paint at your car because your house rules don't apply to them. Tell me, what would be your opinion of these kids? You can't tell them to stop either, since they're not your family.


Ah, but weren't you just saying that the 10C can't apply to us since we're Gentiles? If it can't apply to us, then it can't benefit us by telling us what sin is.


Well this is completely out of context of what he wrote. He wrote "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves".

He wasn't saying that they don't keep the law, he was saying they instinctively do what the law says.


Huh? I was only listing the origins of all the laws they brought up at that council. The meat juice ban was Noah's time, circumcision wasn't Moses' time, but Abraham's time.


Hm... quick question: What do you think the royal law is?


Was God right in punishing the other nations for their iniquity?

Why do you willfully chose to ignore the law?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Firstly, I hope you understand that the Sabbath's sanctity did not come as a result of the 4th Commandment, but with Creation.

Secondly, this proves you are not a disciple of Jesus. This isn't an attack on your character or the like, I'm stating objective fact based on the definition of "disciple". A disciple did, said and believed the same things in the exact same manner of their teacher. It's how Jesus' disciples were recognised. The purpose of discipleship was akin to making carbon copies of the rabbi. Since Jesus kept the Sabbath holy, and you don't then you literally can't call yourself a disciple.

I'd love to see proof of this claim.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

By the way, Jesus said He is Lord of the Sabbath. If you have Jesus as your Lord, then you submit to His rule, don't you? When Jesus said He is Lord of the Sabbath, that meant that Jesus owns the Sabbath. You may say: "But there's no order for me to treat it holy, nor any punishment waiting for me if I don't."
...
I don't know any earthly ruler who likes it if you intentionally deface their property and expect to be in their good graces. If you want to have Jesus as your Lord, then you should be wanting to treat His property the way it should be treated. I mean, be real. Here's a scenario: If someone wanted to apply for permanent residence in the USA, making it a habit to throw eggs at the White House is a sure-fire way of Immigration rejecting you.

How can you think Jesus' thoughts are: "Only my children are forbidden to throw eggs at my Pagani. But since you're not my children, you're free to throw eggs at my Pagani."

You'll try anything to get Christians to forsake grace for the law in order to possess salvation (eternal life).

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I do.

That's a bit misleading don't you think, considering Jesus is the one who gave Moses those instructions in the first place?

Please explain John 15:10 if what you say is true.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I do.

That's a bit misleading don't you think, considering Jesus is the one who gave Moses those instructions in the first place?


But obviously, that's not the point Jesus was making, otherwise He would have said that He is "Lord of everything". Jesus was reminding the Pharisees and scribes of who had the right to say what to do or not do on the Sabbath.

Also, all the other special days were given after sin, whereas Sabbath predates sin.

Nope!!! There's no Biblical support for such a wild claim.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

you are free to write that, but you certainly cannot prove it by scripture or history. But for argument sake lets assume you are correct, how does that change the fact that the Sabbath is not relevant today? The New Testament does not teach or command the observance of the Sabbath or for that matter any day. Gentiles have never been subject to the law of Sabbath observance. Jesus commands us to love others as He loves us. He never ever tried to teach Sabbath observance yet because He was born under the law He Himself was an observer.


Judge not my friend. Where do you find the regulations to become a disciple of Jesus? Jesus kept all the Torah, do you? Are you really keeping Sabbath or are you giving lip service to it? Do you really observe the feast days, and all the laws that pertained to the common person. Do you pay your tithe in animals or crops like it was demanded.The law demanded that the Israelite pay the tithe to the priesthood, the Levites. Is that possible today? Read through the law and see if you are really following all that Jesus believed and did. I think you will find that the only thing you are doing is giving lip service to what you say you do. After you really do what you are telling others thy should do then maybe we will be more attentive to what you write.

I'll second that with an AMEN!!!

Doesn't Romans say something about blaspheming the name of God?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

This is actually an established historical fact about what the term "disciple" meant. It's not something from the Bible because this was a cultural concept of the Jews. Go look up the significance of "Come follow me" in Hebrew. It's a lot more than just believing a rabbi's school of thought.


The New Testament doesn't teach to help the elderly cross the road either, but we are to do it out of love. Application of love, that's why. Furthermore, how can it not be out of love? The Sabbath was meant to be a blessing, but you make it out to be a burden. It's only a burden if you see it like the Pharisees - a day of not doing some things. Whereas if you see it like Jesus did - a day to do good and enjoy good, then it becomes a refreshing day.

He taught proper Sabbath observance to the Pharisees - He let them know it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath and relieve suffering.



It's the historical definition of the word.


That depends on how you define it. I don't observe the sacrificial system because Hebrews clearly states Jesus became High Priest and sacrifice. I don't observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread per se, but I observe the Communion which is what the Passover was about... I'm not going to list all here, but if you so desire to go through each one here, then ok. But, a few of the laws definitely can't be kept now that Jesus is High Priest in heaven, like men's [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] laws and women's menses laws, since there's only the heavenly temple now. If you can find a modern day application, let me know. There are laws about slaves (indentured servants, not the same as Roman, English and American slaves) that I don't follow because I have no slaves. I'm vegetarian, but I believe in the clean/unclean laws being given for good reason.

You got a checklist? Btw, Jesus did not keep the agricultural laws because they did not apply to carpentry. The laws were about context as well. "If you have crops", "If you have slaves", "If you have sex", "If you have children", etc.

Actually, it was already established post-Moses' time among the Israelites that tithe in money was ok. The point was tithing your financial gains.


Hebrews says our High Priest is Jesus, so we tithe to the storehouse of His work (which was the purpose of the tithe - to support the ministry of the priests), so it becomes the ministers' salaries.

Do you tithe or spend your money? There's a big difference.

bugkiller

 

[Mb_C]

Absolute Rubbish...... The Sabbath DAY was not instituted at Creation otherwise it would NOT have been "given" to Israel but rather they would have already been keeping it and they were clueless as to it until it was revealed to Moses et all.

Perhaps you should read up how Jewish rabbinical tradition viewed it.

Christians aren't supposed to become Jewish and follow the Law and go to synagog. Jesus never called for Gentiles to convert to Judaism nor did anyone of importance advocate such in the New Testament in fact Paul fought those who were trying to judaize others and the edict of the council of Jerusalem shows that.

Firstly, Paul still extolled Judaism.
Romans 3
1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision?
2Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.

Secondly, Paul believed the whole world will still be judged by the Law.
Romans 3
19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

Thirdly, whatever Paul said, he did not mean that the Law no longer had meaning.
31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Sometimes, a certain verse can be interpreted in multiple ways. To make sure your interpretation doesn't contradict what the author meant, you need to read his own conclusions about the matter.

You can't call yourself a disciple of Jesus using your own standard either as you fall far short of keeping the Law as he did.

A disciple wasn't a instant carbon copy of the rabbi. It was a long, intensive process. A disciple is someone who wants to and actively does his best imitating everything his rabbi did.

 

[bugkiller]

Isaiah 56
3Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely separate me from His people." Nor let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree."
6"Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath And holds fast My covenant;
7Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples."

God had that promise for Gentiles before Jesus' earthly time, so it shows that God didn't plan on making the Sabbath Hebrew-exclusive. In that promise several hundred years before Jesus was born, it is true that no threat of punishment was given to the Gentiles for not keeping the Sabbath holy. However, God promised blessing and honour for those who did. ie. God had already begun to work on the Gentiles by way of invitation.

You don't understand Ex 12:48 if you've even read it.

bugkiller

 

[Mb_C]

Why do you willfully chose to ignore the law?

I have no idea what you mean here.

I'd love to see proof of this claim.

Sure!
Exodus 20
11"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Genesis 2
2By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Also to note: The 4th Commandment is a reminder to observe it as holy, but their observance is not what made it holy. It was made holy by God resting from creating.

You'll try anything to get Christians to forsake grace for the law in order to possess salvation (eternal life).

O_O Huh?? I've repeatedly said that without grace, obeying the law is not possible at all. It says so in Romans 8:6-8!
How can you possibly think I believe keeping the law grants us salvation? Grace saves us and enables us to obey the law. Being able to obey the law is a result of the gift of salvation and not it is not the means of salvation. You've got to be saved first before you can be subject to the law of God!

If you are under the law, you are not subject to the law.
If you are under grace, grace empowers you to be subject to the law.
(Romans 8:6-8)

Please explain John 15:10 if what you say is true.

Did you mean another verse? Because I'm not seeing the relationship to what I wrote.

Nope!!! There's no Biblical support for such a wild claim.

... ?? God was the one who wrote the 10C for Moses and Jesus is the Word of God and is God! I'm frankly surprised you didn't make the connection. Jesus is God. God gave the law to Moses. Jesus gave the law to Moses.

Do you tithe or spend your money? There's a big difference.

I tithe my salary to my local conference. The rest of the details are here: https://www.adventist.org/en/information/official-statements/guidelines/article/go/-/use-of-tithe/

 

[Mb_C]

You don't understand Ex 12:48 if you've even read it.

Well, they are two different nouns implying different types of people.
In Ex 12:48, the noun is 'gare' which are foreigners that lived among the Hebrews and integrated among them.
In Isaiah 56:6, the noun is 'nekar' which are foreigners of other nations. ie. non-Hebrew living in their own land with their own pagan religious system. eg. Egyptians in Egypt, Moabites in Moab, Native Americans in North America, Indians in India etc.

 

[Mb_C]

Wrong...a LORD doesn't have to always submit to Laws of his people he is above those laws and in him (in Christ) I don't have to worry about a Law meant for those under dominion of that "Lord". Again your idiiotic arguments about defacing things to be equal to keeping the Sabbath are irrelevant to me keeping a day has no 1 to 1 connection to damaging property it is a very LOUSY example and truly shows desperation in the way you accuse Sabbath "breakers" of being vandals and that accusation is accusing MOST of Christianity of being vandals.... good luck with that idea.

In my defense, I was merely translating God's own promise into a modern day analogy.
Isaiah 56:6 calls it polluting/desecrating/profaning. 'Vandalism' still sounds nicer than 'desecrating'.