LDS Why do Mormons think all Christians are in apostasy?

[ToBeLoved]

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:...
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."

'Those days' are here and now!

Are you guys trying to claim Hebrew descent again?

The survey said "that's not true"

This is getting old, we had an entire thread about this fallacy.

The Bible has always said that the OT Hebrews were God's chosen people. So what are you trying to say? You have some great knowledge that you are going to share?

Lay it on me.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I was speaking of the power to heal, the power to say rise up out of that bed and walk. He gave that power to his apostles who then passed it on to other Elders.

That is not Mormonism's official position. They say the apostles gave them the priesthood. LDS website.

The apostles never had the Aaronic priesthood, or the Melchezedek priesthood. That's how right your prophet JS was. You think he would have known these things before he called it 'restored Christianity'. None of you have a clue as to our beliefs, nor do your prophets.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I did not say their "Order of High Priesthood" was like Mormonism. What I said, is the Masons have a degree that is the same "Priesthood of Melchezedek" which includes only Jesus Christ and Melchezedek just like Mormons do.

It's really the same ceremony. I'm not surprised the Masons banned Mormons after that stealth move. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...the-first-in-a-century-who-is-LDS.html?pg=all

I notice, no apology. I thought you guys were so nice.

 

[fatboys]

Are you guys trying to claim Hebrew descent again?

The survey said "that's not true"

This is getting old, we had an entire thread about this fallacy.

The Bible has always said that the OT Hebrews were God's chosen people. So what are you trying to say? You have some great knowledge that you are going to share?

Lay it on me.

Prove that we are not. Lay it on us

 

[ToBeLoved]

Prove that we are not. Lay it on us

Are you serious? There is a whole thread on that topic. I am not repeating it again. Sorry.

Why would you ask when you participated in that thread?

 

[withwonderingawe]

That is not Mormonism's official position. They say the apostles gave them the priesthood. LDS website.

The apostles never had the Aaronic priesthood, or the Melchezedek priesthood. That's how right your prophet JS was. You think he would have known these things before he called it 'restored Christianity'. None of you have a clue as to our beliefs, nor do your prophets.

Jesus ordained his apostles to the priesthood

Mark 3
"14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

Matt 16
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Acts 8
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

He preforms many miracles, he preaches Jesus to them and by "the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women", he had the Aaronic priesthood like John the Baptist but the Holy Ghost has not come upon them.

Peter and John come down and "Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost." This is done by the power of the Melchezedek Priesthood which Jesus had, he could baptize with a baptism of the Holy Ghost, and with fire". Simon recognizes this as a very real power and tries to buy the power. Peter says to him "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money...."

The New Testament is full of examples of these men using their priesthood power, your problem is you deny there is such a thing just as Paul said those in apostasy would.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jesus ordained his apostles to the priesthood

Mark 3
"14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

Matt 16
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Acts 8
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

He preforms many miracles, he preaches Jesus to them and by "the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women", he had the Aaronic priesthood like John the Baptist but the Holy Ghost has not come upon them.

Peter and John come down and "Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost." This is done by the power of the Melchezedek Priesthood which Jesus had, he could baptize with a baptism of the Holy Ghost, and with fire". Simon recognizes this as a very real power and tries to buy the power. Peter says to him "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money...."

The New Testament is full of examples of these men using their priesthood power, your problem is you deny there is such a thing just as Paul said those in apostasy would.

We are all priests, because we are heirs of Christ.

So what specific priesthood is mentioned that was given to the apostles? Because the OT priesthoods are specific.

No. I deny that your prophet ever got any OT priesthoods, because they didn't exist after Christ's crucifiction. Christ is our High Priest for Christianity and we are all co-heirs with Christ of the Father and heirs in Christ.

I think this has been explained many times. I'm thinking of closing this thread too. Seems like we are not taken seriously, nor is our Bible.

Seems like maybe it's purposeful to quote our Bible out of context. Look squirrel!

I know this has been answered at least 5 times on the LDS threads. I mentioned two specific priesthoods. Can you supply and answer that answers my direct question? Otherwise, let's not bother.

 

[Ironhold]

It's interesting how now that Mormonism is trying to go into Africa and South Africa, that they are dropping the coloreds doctrine. WOW. New revelation of man. Revelation changes are 'quite' convenient for that religion.

Might want to re-check your history there.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/south-africa

The church first set foot in South Africa in 1853, and had its first chapel in the country by 1917.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/zimbabwe

Given the church's growth in South Africa, it was only a matter of time before the word spread elsewhere. The church had a presence in Zimbabwe by the end of the 1930s, and the first official baptism took place in 1951.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/nigeria

Word of the church's existence reached Nigeria in the 1950s, well before the church had a presence in that part of Africa. The church attempted to send missionaries all the way back in the 1960s, but couldn't get the required visas.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/ghana

A similar situation occurred in Ghana, where word of the church and a handful of church materials arrived in the country in the 1950s, at which point people sought of their own volition to learn more about the church.

Want to read up about the church's history in other parts of Africa?

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics

Give that a read.

 

[mmksparbud]

Jesus ordained his apostles to the priesthood

No He didn't. Not one verse says they were ordained to the priesthood---not one. There are 21
verses dealing with the word "ordained" in the NT--not one says to the priesthood. The word "ordain" has 5 verses--not one mentions priesthoods.

1Ch_9:22 All these which were chosen to be porters in the gates were two hundred and twelve. These were reckoned by their genealogy in their villages, whom David and Samuel the seer did ordain in their set office.
1Ch_17:9 Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning,
Isa_26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.
1Co_7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
Tit_1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

He preforms many miracles, he preaches Jesus to them and by "the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women", he had the Aaronic priesthood like John the Baptist but the Holy Ghost has not come upon them.

The Holy Spirit had not come down upon anyone in the city of Samaria---when it did come down, it fell on all the new believers. Now, please tell me, where it says anything about priesthood.
John the Baptist was by birth of the priesthood as his father had been a priest. However---John the Baptist did not function as a priest---He preached and he baptized-- he did not officiate as a priest--why was that?---because none would be needed anymore. He came to usher in the New, One and Only High Priest--Jesus Christ.

 

[Ironhold]

This is an interesting, instructive, and in phases, sad story. It shows how gullible are Mormons. Until 1978 was, who bears a drop of Negro blood in him, a LDS man can't received the priesthood. Then the LDS Church got problems. From the outside, through the civil rights movement that wanted to sue the church; and from the inside, because the leadership had built a temple in Brazil, a country almost has by any dark-skinned blood.
The civil rights movement in the neck, a temple to the jaw, which can not be used. So what to do. Mormons then always did the same: A new revelation is needed. And so the former Mormon Prophet Kimball gave in 1978 a "revelation" out, which every worthy young man, regardless of skin color; can get that priesthood. And, although a few years ago the Mormon leaders say full, that at the bid nothing is changed (except the Lord says something else. That is why this revelation was also so badly needed).

http://www.blacklds.org/history

Sadly, the truth doesn't bear out your assertions.

Blacks were ordained to the priesthood in the 1830s and 1840s, individual blacks had the priesthood after Brigham Young took over, and blacks of Melanesean descent were given the priesthood in the 1950s.

 

[Ironhold]

Isn't this past mean, but hateful? I accidently posted this also in another thead. Isn't the internet swell?

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270


*

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60



*
“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 1, p. xl

*

Prophet Brigham Young (1801 - 1877):

“He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong; that they were following the precepts of men instead of the Lord Jesus; that He had a work for him to perform, inasmuch as he should prove faithful before Him.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 171


*

"Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth."

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 176


*

"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was groveling in darkness."

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 73

*

"With a regard to true theology, ."a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 199


*

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God"

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 171


Do you even own quotes from your own prophets? It doesn't get any higher. Hateful

Aren't your prophets suppose to be perfect in the gospel and deed? You just said above "it is a sin, and they must repent"

There you go, referenced for you

You were asked about matters on this website, not 150+ years ago.

 

[mmksparbud]

The church first set foot in South Africa in 1853, and had its first chapel in the country by 1917.

They sure did, but you skipped a few things-- the church closed in 1866 and most of those Mormons went to Utah and they were---white. In 1917, that was a white church. It was illegal for white and blacks to meet together and since blacks were not allowed into the priesthood, blacks could not officiate in their own churches---

 

[Ironhold]

They sure did, but you skipped a few things-- the church closed in 1866 and most of those Mormons went to Utah and they were---white. In 1917, that was a white church. It was illegal for white and blacks to meet together and since blacks were not allowed into the priesthood, blacks could not officiate in their own churches---

[citation needed]

 

[mmksparbud]

Ohh---forgot--

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_in_South_Africa

 

[mmksparbud]

"One day, while having a conversation, we spoke about how Afrikaaners have so many parallels to Mormon history. The great trek and the mormon pioneers, the devotion to religion, family, being pioneers in a hostile land. Both Afrikaaner calvinists and Mormons have similar religious beliefs regarding the curse of Ham, although the Mormons downplay it. My friend, Trevor, made an arguement that he would like to see all Afrikaaners and white South Africans in general convert to the LDS church. He said, when white people stick together, like the Mormons do, and we help each other out, we lift each other up, we take care of and grow our families we do better as a race. And while I am not Mormon or even Christian, I have to agree. I've met some awesome Dutch reformed people, in fact I live less than 2 blocks from a Dutch reformed church here in Montréal. But if Afrikaaner nationalists and white South Africans want to survive, fight back, grow and take back the country y'all built. Perhaps y'all should all become Mormon. Theological debates aside, I find the Mormons to be the most pro-white of ALL denominations/religious communities.


https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t778308/


Stormfront.org is a disgusting white supremacist site

 

[ToBeLoved]

Might want to re-check your history there.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/south-africa

The church first set foot in South Africa in 1853, and had its first chapel in the country by 1917.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/zimbabwe

Given the church's growth in South Africa, it was only a matter of time before the word spread elsewhere. The church had a presence in Zimbabwe by the end of the 1930s, and the first official baptism took place in 1951.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/nigeria

Word of the church's existence reached Nigeria in the 1950s, well before the church had a presence in that part of Africa. The church attempted to send missionaries all the way back in the 1960s, but couldn't get the required visas.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/ghana

A similar situation occurred in Ghana, where word of the church and a handful of church materials arrived in the country in the 1950s, at which point people sought of their own volition to learn more about the church.

Want to read up about the church's history in other parts of Africa?

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics

Give that a read.

Thank you so much, but I'll pass. You guys are not reading what we say, that is clear.

 

[ToBeLoved]

"One day, while having a conversation, we spoke about how Afrikaaners have so many parallels to Mormon history. The great trek and the mormon pioneers, the devotion to religion, family, being pioneers in a hostile land. Both Afrikaaner calvinists and Mormons have similar religious beliefs regarding the curse of Ham, although the Mormons downplay it. My friend, Trevor, made an arguement that he would like to see all Afrikaaners and white South Africans in general convert to the LDS church. He said, when white people stick together, like the Mormons do, and we help each other out, we lift each other up, we take care of and grow our families we do better as a race. And while I am not Mormon or even Christian, I have to agree. I've met some awesome Dutch reformed people, in fact I live less than 2 blocks from a Dutch reformed church here in Montréal. But if Afrikaaner nationalists and white South Africans want to survive, fight back, grow and take back the country y'all built. Perhaps y'all should all become Mormon. Theological debates aside, I find the Mormons to be the most pro-white of ALL denominations/religious communities.


https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t778308/


Stormfront.org is a disgusting white supremacist site

Blatant racism. Disgusting.

Guess they do not believe that translated Bible to 'Love your neighbor as yourself'. But they have Christ. Pondering .......

 

[ToBeLoved]

They sure did, but you skipped a few things-- the church closed in 1866 and most of those Mormons went to Utah and they were---white. In 1917, that was a white church. It was illegal for white and blacks to meet together and since blacks were not allowed into the priesthood, blacks could not officiate in their own churches---

That's quite a condundrum.

 

[mmksparbud]

Talk about an oxymoron---white supremacist Christians!! But then I can't understand anti-sematic Christians--for crying out loud, they worship a Jew but hate the Jews??!!

 

[withwonderingawe]

No He didn't. Not one verse says they were ordained to the priesthood---not one. There are 21
verses dealing with the word "ordained" in the NT--not one says to the priesthood. The word "ordain" has 5 verses--not one mentions priesthoods.

1Ch_9:22 All these which were chosen to be porters in the gates were two hundred and twelve. These were reckoned by their genealogy in their villages, whom David and Samuel the seer did ordain in their set office.
1Ch_17:9 Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning,
Isa_26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.
1Co_7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
Tit_1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:




The Holy Spirit had not come down upon anyone in the city of Samaria---when it did come down, it fell on all the new believers. Now, please tell me, where it says anything about priesthood.
John the Baptist was by birth of the priesthood as his father had been a priest. However---John the Baptist did not function as a priest---He preached and he baptized-- he did not officiate as a priest--why was that?---because none would be needed anymore. He came to usher in the New, One and Only High Priest--Jesus Christ.

Ya mean you need the words "And he ordained twelve to the Melchezedek Priesthood” in order for you to accept the obvious?

That’s really really sad.