Dropping and Rolling on the Floor?

[imstillstanding]

What are WOF type followers?

If they are WOF type followers, and i assume they are, then i would say its because their leaders are not following this scripture below. They cannot see, their leaders are blind. The darkness in this scripture refers to spiritual blindness, in my opinion.

Mathew 7:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

The Lamp of the Body
22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

If they are WOF type followers, and i assume they are, then i would say its because their leaders are not following this scripture below. They cannot see, their leaders are blind. The darkness in this scripture refers to spiritual blindness, in my opinion.

Mathew 7:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

The Lamp of the Body
22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

[Extraneous]

What are WOF type followers?

I answered it in another post i think, and i should probably stay out of this thread.

 

[TheDag]

I think you still need to clearly define what you mean by "praying in public".

Why would I need to. I've never claimed praying in public is wrong. The principle taught is the same as dressing modestly. Don't do it to show off. It was the other person who just quoted a verse which said go into your room and close the door and claimed prayer in church broke the rule.

 

[prodromos]

Why would I need to. I've never claimed praying in public is wrong. The principle taught is the same as dressing modestly. Don't do it to show off. It was the other person who just quoted a verse which said go into your room and close the door and claimed prayer in church broke the rule.

You didn't read their post carefully then. They said no such thing.

 

[Aldebaran]

You can see in the below video how the speakers manipulate the crowd by raising their voices and jumping around. They know exactly how to whip the crowd into a frenzy. If this is the same thing that the OP is referring to, then there is no Biblical evidence or prescription for it.

This video is a great example of what I was referring to in the past when I mentioned being given "the creeps" while being in churches where this stuff happens. Starting at 2:10 in the video is what I'm talking about.

 

[DW_in_AR]

There is some scriptural support for the Spirit of God overwhelming persons, causing them to behave in rather odd ways.

1 Sam 19:

'20 Then Saul sent messengers to take David, and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as head over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied. 21 When it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they also prophesied. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they also prophesied. 22 Then he himself went to Ramah and came to the great well that is in Secu. And he asked, “Where are Samuel and David?” And one said, “Behold, they are at Naioth in Ramah.” 23 And he went there to Naioth in Ramah. And the Spirit of God came upon him also, and as he went he prophesied until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24 And he too stripped off his clothes, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay naked all that day and all that night. Thus it is said, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”'

The author recognized prophesying, nakedness, and lying (on the floor?) before a prophetic leader as legitimate evidence of God's Spirit. So while I think the modern experience is psychological and not spiritual, I can't discount it entirely. I am just grateful they keep their clothes on now.

 

[Aldebaran]

There is some scriptural support for the Spirit of God overwhelming persons, causing them to behave in rather odd ways.

1 Sam 19:

'20 Then Saul sent messengers to take David, and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as head over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied. 21 When it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they also prophesied. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they also prophesied. 22 Then he himself went to Ramah and came to the great well that is in Secu. And he asked, “Where are Samuel and David?” And one said, “Behold, they are at Naioth in Ramah.” 23 And he went there to Naioth in Ramah. And the Spirit of God came upon him also, and as he went he prophesied until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24 And he too stripped off his clothes, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay naked all that day and all that night. Thus it is said, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”'

The author recognized prophesying, nakedness, and lying (on the floor?) before a prophetic leader as legitimate evidence of God's Spirit. So while I think the modern experience is psychological and not spiritual, I can't discount it entirely. I am just grateful they keep their clothes on now.

I understand that examples like this and others can be shown from scripture, but each event had a purpose. What we see in churches on a weekly basis "on demand" would take a stretch of the imagination to think it has much of a purpose other than to entertain those who are present.

 

[TheDag]

You didn't read their post carefully then. They said no such thing.

As I previously said they quoted that verse and took it literally to justify their view on another topic. Therefore since they take that verse so literally then yes they did claim you must pray in your room at home. So yes they did claim it was wrong.
As I also said previously in the discussion when I responded they did not once say anything about me misunderstanding their post in several responses so it is safe to assume my understanding of their post is correct since they made no attempt to let me know I misunderstood. Instead they tried to justify their claim.

I will say that they may not have said praying in church was wrong and that I may have read that elsewhere and mistakenly assigned the claim to them. However since they took the verse so literally then they would have to agree with that in any case. Church is not at home in your room with a closed door is it!

 

[TheDag]

I understand that examples like this and others can be shown from scripture, but each event had a purpose. What we see in churches on a weekly basis "on demand" would take a stretch of the imagination to think it has much of a purpose other than to entertain those who are present.

Why are you being so judgemental? On what grounds do you base your claim that most people in churches where this happens are only interested in entertainment?

 

[prodromos]

As I previously said they quoted that verse and took it literally to justify their view on another topic. Therefore since they take that verse so literally then yes they did claim you must pray in your room at home. So yes they did claim it was wrong.
As I also said previously in the discussion when I responded they did not once say anything about me misunderstanding their post in several responses so it is safe to assume my understanding of their post is correct since they made no attempt to let me know I misunderstood. Instead they tried to justify their claim.

I will say that they may not have said praying in church was wrong and that I may have read that elsewhere and mistakenly assigned the claim to them. However since they took the verse so literally then they would have to agree with that in any case. Church is not at home in your room with a closed door is it!

What didn't you understand in his clarification in post #92?

 

[JCFantasy23]

I've been irritated and disturbed with this way of acting for a long time. I saw it in a large Pentecostal church once and it just made me uncomfortable. I attended the Todd Bentley revival, against my better judgment and to appease my mother, and it was a farce. People seemed convinced of their weird expressions filled with pain and grabbing their stomachs. When they got to me and my father, we didn't feel any urge to fall down, we were basically pulled down/shoved. I will say that after that it was almost impossible to swear lol - I joke it was a spiritual form of washing my mouth out with soap. Odd, that, and not what was intended when they started shouting about fire. It's also what made me seek out this forum and discover CF, so good things did come out of it.

I have a friend who attended a church where everyone spoke in tongues - she said she wasn't able to and felt discouraged. She had a book from Billy Graham, and told me the reason she picked up any Christian book was because she wanted to learn how to talk in tongues.

 

[Aldebaran]

Why are you being so judgemental? On what grounds do you base your claim that most people in churches where this happens are only interested in entertainment?

Personal experience. I've been to churches like this, and the people there didn't seem to have much interest in anything but entertainment and excitement. I tried talking to the people about the bible and what God says in His Word, and they made it clear to me that what the bible says was of no interest to them.

 

[TheDag]

What didn't you understand in his clarification in post #92?

probably the part where he made unfounded accusations (going very close to blasphemy against the spirit aka unforgiveable sin if not actually doing that outright).
The part where he dismisses it as being ok for Jesus to sin.
Note they still kept arguing I was wrong despite saying that. So their actions show their true beliefs.

 

[TheDag]

Personal experience. I've been to churches like this, and the people there didn't seem to have much interest in anything but entertainment and excitement. I tried talking to the people about the bible and what God says in His Word, and they made it clear to me that what the bible says was of no interest to them.

and the churches where this happens that you have not attended? On what basis do you judge those people? On what basis have you decided I only go to church for entertainment?

 

[DamianWarS]

Personal experience. I've been to churches like this, and the people there didn't seem to have much interest in anything but entertainment and excitement. I tried talking to the people about the bible and what God says in His Word, and they made it clear to me that what the bible says was of no interest to them.

Of course there is abuse or misfocus but the baptism of the HS is still very biblical. People like to use the poorest examples to write off this side of the HS and tend to sweep the biblical stuff under a rug.

I do not defend unbiblical practises but if you read the book of acts the impression is the HS comes with power and then indiscriminately manifests through all believers present. If you read corinthians we see Paul feeling the need to address abuse.

It's the manifestions that have turned fleshly but using the bible as our guide rolling on the ground is absent but tongues and prophecy are very common. But because the former happens should not discredit the latter. I feel this thread needs to properly identify what is the biblical practise of the baptism of the HS and what is not rather then commenting only on the worst examples.

 

[Aldebaran]

and the churches where this happens that you have not attended? On what basis do you judge those people? On what basis have you decided I only go to church for entertainment?

Do I have to attend every church in order to have an opinion about the same behavior? Also, I never made any specific reference to you at all.

 

[TheDag]

Do I have to attend every church in order to have an opinion about the same behavior? Also, I never made any specific reference to you at all.

you made a blanket judgement so yes. You stated people in churches where that happens are only there for entertainment. Since it happens in my church you therefore declared I only go for entertainment.

 

[Aldebaran]

you made a blanket judgement so yes. You stated people in churches where that happens are only there for entertainment. Since it happens in my church you therefore declared I only go for entertainment.

You're trying to make this personal. When someone says "people", they are clearly talking about people in general rather than a specific person, or ALL people.

 

[TheDag]

You're trying to make this personal. When someone says "people", they are clearly talking about people in general rather than a specific person, or ALL people.

actually not that straightforward. It can mean both. In any case the word people was not in the original comment. It stated that it was for entertainment purposes only. It was not me that made it personal but rather you by making your blanket condemnation. You made a judgement of all people in churches like this and I happen to attend a church like that. Perhaps you didn't think anyone who attended a church like that was taking part in this thread and now you are backpedalling. See thats the thing with general statements. They apply to people and is why they most often are not helpful or useful.

 

[Aldebaran]

actually not that straightforward. It can mean both. In any case the word people was not in the original comment. It stated that it was for entertainment purposes only. It was not me that made it personal but rather you by making your blanket condemnation. You made a judgement of all people in churches like this and I happen to attend a church like that. Perhaps you didn't think anyone who attended a church like that was taking part in this thread and now you are backpedalling. See thats the thing with general statements. They apply to people and is why they most often are not helpful or useful.

Interesting. You're using the words, "personal" and "blanket condemnation" in the same sentence. That's doublespeak. You can't have it both ways. It can't be a "blanket condemnation" and also be personal. Now, if you want to take a blanket statement which you like to call a condemnation and take it personally, then that's up to you. As for me, I've simply stated what I have observed in those churches and what I've gotten from the people who go there after having conversations with them, including one of their pastors.