Maybe, "three nights and three days" ?

[Soyeong]

Again, the sign was not some exact time period. Who would believe in anything if they said they would be dead for a certain period of time...nobody. However if they were to be alive again, that WOULD be a sign! The resurrection was the sign. Jonah went to the Ninevites and they repented. Yeshua said that the Ninevites would judge the unbelieving generation He was speaking to. Jonah said that "forty days, and Nineveh shall be destroyed" and Jerusalem was destroyed 40 years after Yeshua died and rose. In Luke 11 it says "...just as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so shall the Son of Man be to this generation." The SIGN was not that Jonah got swallowed by the whale or that Yeshua died...it is that God raised both up...ALIVE!

Matthew 12:40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

It's pretty clear to me that the sign of Jonah is connected with three days and three nights, though I would agree that it refers to more than just that.

 

[Soyeong]

Hi Soyeong, it is a nice image file but do you see the point which I tried to make to AbbaLove previously above? The image file you posted clearly shows three nights and three days, not three days and three nights. How is it that everyone desires to be so absolute and precise with everything else stated concerning this matter but then completely ignore the fact that there is no way to make the count start at daytime because of when Yeshua died? (that is, if one is counting full days and full nights).
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Hello, I'm not convinced that it necessarily needs to start with a day rather than a night as long as the total is the same, especially seeing as their days started with a night, but if you want to not count the first night he was in the grave and shift the arrow on the image a half step to the right, then that might work too. That would move his resurrection from sundown on Saturday night at the end of the weekly Sabbath to sunrise on Sunday just before the women went to the tomb.

However, that can make a difference to those who want to make something out of the fact that Jesus rose on Sunday rather than at the end of the Sabbath. For instance, in Acts 20:7 people want to interpret that as them meeting on Sunday morning to show the start of a new tradition, with Paul talking all day until midnight, but the first of the week starts at the end of the Sabbath at sundown on Saturday night, so they were actually meeting for a Havdalah service, which was nothing new.

Now that I think about it, doesn't it make a lot more sense to say that a day starts or ends at sunup or sundown rather than in the middle of the night?

 

[visionary]

Why would it need to be? They would believe because he was dead exactly 72 hrs or 24 hrs or ???

I don't go for the exact...

 

[Soyeong]

The concern was to bury Yeshua before the Sabbath, so there very likely was a small period of time in between when Jesus was buried and sundown, so I don't think it necessarily had to be exactly 72 hours unless he rose exactly minus that period of time. If you want to get technical about it, days are not exactly 24 hours, and the time that the sun sets and rises changes from day to day. Nevertheless, I think it refers to a full or mostly full day or night. I've seen the claim that they counted any part of a day as a full day to try to cram three days and nights between Friday and Sunday, but I haven't seen a source for that claim.

 

[ml5363]

Yes wed is a prob date bc 6pm to 6am is night...and 6am to 6pm is day..pastor sermon wed that christ was hung on cross wed..

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I've seen the claim that they counted any part of a day as a full day to try to cram three days and nights between Friday and Sunday, but I haven't seen a source for that claim.

The source is Judaism.

 

[Soyeong]

The source is Judaism.

I mean a source like something that was written down by Jews during that period that talks about the practice of counting any part of a day as a full day. How do you know it was actually a practice back then? How do you distinguish between that and someone who just made up to and other people who accepted it as factual without checked their source?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I mean a source like something that was written down by Jews during that period that talks about the practice of counting any part of a day as a full day. How do you know it was actually a practice back then? How do you distinguish between that and someone who just made up to and other people who accepted it as factual without checked their source?

Rabbi Eliezar ben Azariah, tenth in the descent from Ezra was very specific: "A day and a night are an Onah (a portion of time) and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it" [Jerusalem Talmud, Shabbath 9.3 and b. Talmud, Pesahim 4a]

Also for examples:

2 Chr 10:5 "And he said to them, 'Return to me again in three days" with verse 12: "So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam on the third day as the king had directed, saying, 'Return to me on the third day." In this case "in three days" is equivalent to "on the third day".

Esther 4:16 "Go, gather together all the Jews who are in Susa, and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maids will fast as you do. When this is done, I will go to the king, even though it is against the law. And if I perish, I perish." And then in 5:1 "On the third day Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the palace, in front of the king's hall." In this case, "on the third day" is equivalent to "for three days, night or day".

1 Samuel 30:12-13 "He ate and was revived, for he had not eaten any food or drunk any water for three days and three nights. David asked him, "To whom do you belong, and where do you come from?" He said, "I am an Egyptian, the slave of an Amalekite. My master abandoned me when I became ill three days ago." In this case "for three days and three nights" somehow was fulfilled when his master left him "three days ago".

 

[Hank77]

That's the same thought I have regarding the three days/three nights scenario. While to the Greeks, their days were literal 24 hour periods, a Hebrew day lasts from sundown to sundown, and can often vary depending on when the moon rises or when it gets dark outside, which is why even now, their holidays never have a fixed date like the Western ones do. It is entirely possible, and most likely the correct scenario, that what the Greeks interpreted as three 24 hour days were really three Hebrew days that ended whenever the sun went down/the moon was spotted in the sky, therefore creating what seems to be a contradiction, but really means the same thing.

Hebrew calendar is lunar cycle, Georgian and Julian are solar cycle.

Hello, I'm not convinced that it necessarily needs to start with a day rather than a night as long as the total is the same, especially seeing as their days started with a night, but if you want to not count the first night he was in the grave and shift the arrow on the image a half step to the right, then that might work too. That would move his resurrection from sundown on Saturday night at the end of the weekly Sabbath to sunrise on Sunday just before the women went to the tomb.

If you ask me to prove this it might take awhile to find, but in the Talmud I believe it is, it says that after the 7th day Sabbath ended (sundown-the twilight/evening) the High Priest would cut the first sheaves of the barley harvest away from the ground to prepare the omer (Firstfruits) which would be lifted up in the morning on the 8th day.
Everything that happened was seen in the rituals and ceremonies, such as Preparation Day. Therefore, it makes sense to me that this was too. Therefore, I believe, that He rose from the grave as the barley was being cut from the earth, and that He ascended to the Father, as the Firstfruits, as the omer was being lifted up, and then returned for the 40 days. This should not be seen as The Second Coming. He told Mary to go and tell the Apostles that He was ascending and I believe He did just that.
One of you may be able to help with this. I have a vague idea that when He told Mary not to touch/cling to Him it may be because of a defilement that can be found in the Torah but I cannot point to it.

I've seen the claim that they counted any part of a day as a full day to try to cram three days and nights between Friday and Sunday, but I haven't seen a source for that claim.

Because of OT scriptures. They are here.
https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=10&article=756

You may be interested in this chart....but I do not agree with the rest of this site....
http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/passover_dates.htm

 

[Hank77]

Also for examples:

Opps...
Didn't see you post until after I posted a link. Started my posted long before I actually finished and posted it....

 

[Soyeong]

Hebrew calendar is lunar cycle, Georgian and Julian are solar cycle.

If you ask me to prove this it might take awhile to find, but in the Talmud I believe it is, it says that after the 7th day Sabbath ended (sundown-the twilight/evening) the High Priest would cut the first sheaves of the barley harvest away from the ground to prepare the omer (Firstfruits) which would be lifted up in the morning on the 8th day.
Everything that happened was seen in the rituals and ceremonies, such as Preparation Day. Therefore, it makes sense to me that this was too. Therefore, I believe, that He rose from the grave as the barley was being cut from the earth, and that He ascended to the Father, as the Firstfruits, as the omer was being lifted up, and then returned for the 40 days. This should not be seen as The Second Coming.

Good point.

He told Mary to go and tell the Apostles that He was ascending and I believe He did just that.
One of you may be able to help with this. I have a vague idea that when He told Mary not to touch/cling to Him it may be because of a defilement that can be found in the Torah but I cannot point to it.

I have heard the idea that this is a parallel with the Day of Atonement where the High Priest is so holy that he can not be touched by anyone before he has approached to the altar to make atonement for the sins of the people. This would mean that when Jesus was speaking to Mary he had not yet atoned for the sins of the world, which he did in between then and when he appeared to his disciples and invited them to touch him.

Because of OT scriptures. They are here.
https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=10&article=756

To me, it is reasonable to say that on the third day could mean any portion of the third day. However, it doesn't make sense to me to count inclusively. In other words, if someone said that they would do something in one day, I think that means that they will do it sometime tomorrow, but if we count any portion of the day that they said that as a full day, then that means that means that they are saying they will do it today. That's what we need to do in order count the last few minutes of Friday as a full day and night in the grave. The Bible does speak about it being a High Sabbath, which means that the day before would not necessarily be a Friday.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Hebrew calendar is lunar cycle, Georgian and Julian are solar cycle.

If you ask me to prove this it might take awhile to find, but in the Talmud I believe it is, it says that after the 7th day Sabbath ended (sundown-the twilight/evening) the High Priest would cut the first sheaves of the barley harvest away from the ground to prepare the omer (Firstfruits) which would be lifted up in the morning on the 8th day.
Everything that happened was seen in the rituals and ceremonies, such as Preparation Day. Therefore, it makes sense to me that this was too. Therefore, I believe, that He rose from the grave as the barley was being cut from the earth, and that He ascended to the Father, as the Firstfruits, as the omer was being lifted up, and then returned for the 40 days. This should not be seen as The Second Coming. He told Mary to go and tell the Apostles that He was ascending and I believe He did just that.
One of you may be able to help with this. I have a vague idea that when He told Mary not to touch/cling to Him it may be because of a defilement that can be found in the Torah but I cannot point to it.

You mean Gregorian and Julian. Julian is lunar for Pascha (Passover). It is true what you have written Hank regarding Yom HaBikkurim. The Eastern Orthodox (as far as I know) is the only ancient church that celebrates the Resurrection after the Sabbath Sunset before the next morning sunrise.

Actually, it is the opposite regarding Mary. Normally if you touched a dead body, you were impure so you would have to celebrate Pesakh Sheni that next month. In this case, if Mary would have touched Yeshua BEFORE he presented Himself to The Father, it would not be acceptable. Once He presented Himself to The Father, He allowed others to touch Him later that same day.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Opps...
Didn't see you post until after I posted a link. Started my posted long before I actually finished and posted it....

No problem Hank! Shalom

 

[Hank77]

I have heard the idea that this is a parallel with the Day of Atonement where the High Priest is so holy that he can not be touched by anyone before he has approached to the altar to make atonement for the sins of the people. This would mean that when Jesus was speaking to Mary he had not yet atoned for the sins of the world, which he did in between then and when he appeared to his disciples and invited them to touch him.

Thank you, this would cover that, I think.

That's what we need to do in order count the last few minutes of Friday as a full day and night in the grave.

I agree. I just don't see a Friday as being possible when compared to Jonah.

The Bible does speak about it being a High Sabbath, which means that the day before would not necessarily be a Friday.

Can you be more expilcit, I'm not sure which scripture, etc. you are referring to? Thanks.

Actually, it is the opposite regarding Mary. Normally if you touched a dead body, you were impure so you would have to celebrate Pesakh Sheni that next month. In this case, if Mary would have touched Yeshua BEFORE he presented Himself to The Father, it would not be acceptable. Once He presented Himself to The Father, He allowed others to touch Him later that same day.

This is a good point, as well.
But was His body, at this point, dead or defiling? I guess I have trouble thinking that touching Him could ever be defiling, dead or alive. But that doesn't mean anything when it comes to truth.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Thank you, this would cover that, I think.

I agree. I just don't see a Friday as being possible when compared to Jonah.

Can you be more expilcit, I'm not sure which scripture, etc. you are referring to? Thanks.

This is a good point, as well.
But was His body, at this point, dead or defiling? I guess I have trouble thinking that touching Him could ever be defiling, dead or alive. But that doesn't mean anything when it comes to truth.

No, He was raised at that point. But if Mary would have touched Him, His sacrifice may not have been acceptable. Once accepted, He allowed Himself to be touched later that same day.

 

[Soyeong]

Can you be more expilcit, I'm not sure which scripture, etc. you are referring to? Thanks.

John 19:31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.

God's feasts were also considered Sabbaths or high Sabbaths, so this preparation was for Passover, not the weekly Sabbath.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

John 19:31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.

God's feasts were also considered Sabbaths or high Sabbaths, so this preparation was for Passover, not the weekly Sabbath.

It does not say it was a Sabbath but a High Day (meaning Feast day) so that Sabbath (Saturday) was also a High Feast Day...Passover. The preparation day is synonymous with Friday.

 

[daq]

It is true what you have written Hank regarding Yom HaBikkurim. The Eastern Orthodox (as far as I know) is the only ancient church that celebrates the Resurrection after the Sabbath Sunset before the next morning sunrise.

Actually, it is the opposite regarding Mary. Normally if you touched a dead body, you were impure so you would have to celebrate Pesakh Sheni that next month. In this case, if Mary would have touched Yeshua BEFORE he presented Himself to The Father, it would not be acceptable. Once He presented Himself to The Father, He allowed others to touch Him later that same day.

No, He was raised at that point. But if Mary would have touched Him, His sacrifice may not have been acceptable. Once accepted, He allowed Himself to be touched later that same day.

How then do you understand the Matthew account? Matthew 28:1-9 seems pretty clearly to have occurred before the statement of the next morning found in John 20:17. Yet in Matthew 28:9 we read, "And they came and took hold of his feet", so if Matthew is indeed the night before then either your chronological understanding does not compute or your explanation of the meaning of John 20:17 cannot be the correct understanding.
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[Henaynei]

been a while since I stuck my nose in... Oh, well, feet first....

Yeshua said He would be in the earth as Jov was in the whale "3 days and 3 nights."

In the Haggadah we read with the 2nd cup, "Rabbi Elazar ben Azariah said to them: (Berachot 12b.) I am like a seventy-year-old man. Nevertheless, I did not merit [to understand the reason for the obligation] to recall the Exodus from Egypt at night until ben Zoma interpreted the verse, (Deuteronomy 16:3.) "In order that you remember the day you left Egypt all the days of your life." [The phrase] "the days of your life" refers to the days; [adding the word] "all" includes the nights."

And in Scripture we read, Yeshua said, (Mattisyahu 12)
38 At this some of the Torah-teachers said, "Rabbi, we want to see a miraculous sign from you." 39 He replied, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign? No! None will be given to it but the sign of the prophet Yonah. 40 For just as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-monster,so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth.

Markus 14
12 On the first day for matzah, when they slaughtered the lamb for Pesach, Yeshua's talmidim asked him, "Where do you want us to go and prepare your Seder?" He sent two of his talmidim with these instructions: "Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him; and whichever house he enters, tell him that the Rabbi says, 'Where is the guest room for me, where I am to eat the Pesach meal with my talmidim?' He will show you a large room upstairs, furnished and ready. Make the preparations there."

Preparations for Shabbat means specifically the laboroius task of diligently removing all leven.

I posit that the time of this discussion was at sunset on Tuesday (3rd day), thus making it the 4th day (Wednesday). Since one has removed all leven one is therfore forbidden from eating leven thence forth until the end of the Festival, Making it the "first day for matzah."

Scripture zstates Yeshua was sacrificed on Preparation Day....

Luke 23
It was Preparation Day, and a Shabbat was about to begin.

Yochanan 19
It was Preparation Day, and the Judeans did not want the bodies to remain on the stake on Shabbat, since it was an especially important Shabbat.

But the lambs would not be killed at the Temple until that afternoon, giving the people enough time to roast the lambs and to eat them starting between the beginning of sunset and the onset of complete darkness.

V'yakra/Leviticus
"'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between sundown and complete darkness, comes Pesach for ADONAI. On the fifteenth day of the same month is the festival of matzah; for seven days you are to eat matzah.

Now, we know that Yeshua never violated Torah. He also supported most of te halakah of the time.
He would not "work" on Shabbat. Surely creating Life is not permitted for it is the main creative activity from which HaShem rested "on the seventh day."

Thus, Yeshua would have raised from the grave some tie after sunset at the end of Shabbat/7th day. For Him to do this AND fulfill His promise to be in the earth "3 days and 3 nights," He would have had to be placed in the grave just before Sunset on what we call Wednesday (but to the Jews was the end of the 4th day of the week) and arose after Sunset on the end of the 7th day (Shabbat). Thus, night and day of the 5th day, night and day of the 6th day and night and day of the 7th day, making a total of 3 days and 3 nights. That is, in our parlance today: Wednesday night, Thursday day and night, Friday day and night and Saturday day - 3 days and 3 nights.

Then, Yochanan 20
1 "Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Miryam from Magdala went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb."


b'Shalom
Henaynei

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

How then do you understand the Matthew account? Matthew 28:1-9 seems pretty clearly to have occurred before the statement of the next morning found in John 20:17. Yet in Matthew 28:9 we read, "And they came and took hold of his feet", so if Matthew is indeed the night before then either your chronological understanding does not compute or your explanation of the meaning of John 20:17 cannot be the correct understanding.
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Don't understand what you are asking? That He did or did not raise sometime after sunset or that you say it says they touched his feet? Took hold of his feet idiom translation is came and worshiped at His feet.