Abortion Discussion

[Root of Jesse]

Easy call--the pregnant woman is a life in being. The fetus is not. Her decision should prevail.

But, of course, you ahve already said that it is not indentured servitude to force a rape victim to carry the fetus produced by that rape to term. Never mind all that she will have to go through. Nothing like punishing a rape victim twice.

A fetus is not a potential human being, it is a human being with potential. Considering that every embryo is unique in the history of the world, and that God has a purpose for each one, why is it EVER OK to subvert God's will, even if it occurs through an evil act of rape. For those who did carry their rape children to term, have you ever seen one who said that they wished they hadn't done that?

 

[Archivist]

Therefore, with that in conscience one makes a decision to either protect human life or terminate it.

And in a case of rape how do we know that the fetus, if it could talk, wouldn't tell the pregnant woman "You have already been punished enough. Don't put yourself through any more on my account. Feel free to abort me if that is your choice."

 

[Dave-W]

Given that the fetus cannot make a decision and the pregnant woman can, why should the choice to rest with her? If not her, who else? You?

Why not let the fetus grow up and make the decision for themselves. After all, the decision affects that fetus more than anyone else.

 

[Archivist]

A fetus is not a potential human being, it is a human being with potential. Considering that every embryo is unique in the history of the world, and that God has a purpose for each one, why is it EVER OK to subvert God's will, even if it occurs through an evil act of rape.

Is slavery God's will?

For those who did carry their rape children to term, have you ever seen one who said that they wished they hadn't done that?

Which is exactly why the choice should remain with the pregnant woman/rape victim.[/QUOTE]

 

[Archivist]

Why not let the fetus grow up and make the decision for themselves. After all, the decision affects that fetus more than anyone else.

So if we let the fetus grow up, it can go back and undo all the pain and problems suffered by the pregnant woman who was raped.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Life in being is an old legal concept the comes from the celebrated Rule against Perpetuities, a rules that has baffled generations of law students. The pregnant woman is a life in being. The fetus is a life in being only if it survives until birth.

I would think that's not quite true. I do not know legal history but it seems to me "life in being" must mean "living being," that it is A (living) HUMAN BEING, an animal being, living member of the human species. So the fetus, per se, is NEVER a "life in being," that is, IT is never a human being. There are only born human beings.

 

[Archivist]

I would think that's not quite true. I do not know legal history but it seems to me "life in being" must mean "living being," that it is A (living) HUMAN BEING, a (being) living member of the human species. So the fetus, per se, is NEVER a "life in being," that is, IT is never a human being. There are only born human beings.

I'm a lawyer. What I have said regarding a life in being is correct. A fetus is considered to be a life in being only if it survives until birth.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

I'm a lawyer. What I have said regarding a life in being is correct. A fetus is considered to be a life in being only if it survives until birth.

I would think it would have to SURVIVE THROUGH BIRTH.
(And then of course it would be incorrect to refer to it as a fetus.)

 

[Root of Jesse]

No, but slavery is usually something you cannot recover from. God allowed his people to be slaves for 400 years in Egypt, and off again and on again throughout their history.

 

[Archivist]

I would think it would have to SURVIVE THROUGH BIRTH.
(And then of course it would be incorrect to refer to it as a fetus.)

Of course it has to survive birth--that is the point. Just look up the rule.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I'm a lawyer. What I have said regarding a life in being is correct. A fetus is considered to be a life in being only if it survives until birth.

Yeah, there's the legal def that has it's place, and the civil def that has its place, but there's other definitions that supercede legality.

 

[civilwarbuff]

And in a case of rape how do we know that the fetus, if it could talk, wouldn't tell the pregnant woman "You have already been punished enough. Don't put yourself through any more on my account. Feel free to abort me if that is your choice."

Really? Now you are speaking the "desire" of the unborn? That is weak......

 

[Root of Jesse]

And in a case of rape how do we know that the fetus, if it could talk, wouldn't tell the pregnant woman "You have already been punished enough. Don't put yourself through any more on my account. Feel free to abort me if that is your choice."

By the same token, what person wants to be a slave? Yet there are lots who would love to make someone a slave.

God says "My Grace is sufficient for you." God supports those who accept His will.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Of course it has to survive birth--that is the point. Just look up the rule.

And we should deny the opportunity to survive? We have that right? Because 9 old men said we do?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Indeed. Conception of what species exactly from a human mother and human father. Yes a human conception. A new distinct human life is created at conception.

Sorry, a human being that is "a new distinct human life" is created in the womb. That is what pregnancy is.
IT (the human being) IS NOT CREATED BEFORE IT IS CREATED.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Sorry, a human being that is "a new distinct human life" is created in the womb. That is what pregnancy is.
IT (the human being) IS NOT CREATED BEFORE IT IS CREATED.

Jeremiah 1:5
I will take God's version....

 

[Radrook]

No. There is NO breathing in the fetus. If you say the fetus breaths (uses lungs, etc.) you do not know what you are talking about. The fetus itself does not have any breath.

It has life, but is not a life in the sense of being a human being. A living breathing human being. The life that is in the fetus comes from the sperm and the egg - it is that SAME LIFE that is sustained by the mother, including her breathing of course which never takes place in the fetus.

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you but to absolutely no avail, the Bible clearly tells us that if an abortion was provoked by two men carelessly struggling with each other under under the Law of Moses, a LIFE should go for a LIFE.

It did not make a distinction between the life outside the womb and the life inside the womb but equated them as equal just as an eye was equal to and eye and a tooth to a tooth regardless of its stage of development..

You disagree? OK. But we who consider the scriptures God's inspired word do not disagree. So if indeed you are seeking to convince us otherwise you're totally wasting your time since we don't place man's opinion above the word of God.

So your breathing issue, although of paramount importance to you, is totally irrelevant from the biblical standpoint and is therefore totally irrelevant to us as well. Hope that clarifies where we stand on the issue.

 

[Archivist]

No, but slavery is usually something you cannot recover from. God allowed his people to be slaves for 400 years in Egypt, and off again and on again throughout their history.

But we are talking about a woman who has already been a victim.

 

[SteveB28]

Didn't know you were a pastor or preacher. I will await the remainder of your sermon. You have me intrigued.

Running from the question I see

 

[Archivist]

Because 9 old men said we do?

You need to learn your history.