What happens when we die?

Bob Crowley

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I'll stick my neck out here. I make the claim that on the night my father died, he appeared in my room. Quite some time later I wrote a narrative which pretty much states what happened, what we said, and his absolutely terrifying scream just before he disappeared again.

I've had other spiritual experiences, and I remember one testimony by a former homosexual who claimed that on his second suicide attempt, Christ appeared in the corner of the room just as he was about to pull the pin, moved towards him, and somehow seemed to merge.

He claimed that from that time on, he never even had to struggle with homosexuality, had married a woman who accepted his past, and they had a couple of young sons at that stage.

So I'm not the only one who has "spiritual experiences".

For my money, when we die, we first of all move out of our bodies, as so many NDE's seem to indicate (hovering over the surgeons, seeing grieving family members etc). Then possibly we go down some sort of tunnel, and I think initially we meet up with some relatives and friends who might have predeceased us. But then comes the judgment!

In Catholic doctrine, there are in a sense two judgements - the first is the "particular judgement" and takes place immediately after death. And what I saw the night my father died was, I think, part of his particular judgement. He was sent to apologise, amongst other things.

Then there's the "final judgement", in which ALL human beings participate, no matter when they died, and at that Judgement, we will see how our actions and lack of actions affected the total human story as a whole, and not just our actions per se, isolated from long term events.

Then we will go our separate ways, for eternity.

If you want to read on, I"ve included the narrative about my "father's death apparition" below.

p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; direction: ltr; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 120%; widows: 2; orphans: 2; }p.western { font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt; }p.cjk { font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt; }p.ctl { font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt; }

FATHER’S DEATH APPARITION

"It had began, precisely, on the 11th January 1979. No, that wasn’t quite true – the background to the scene was set long before that.

But on that night, he had the experience of his father appearing to him in his room. Which was a bit strange – he hadn’t seen his father for six months, and that had been when he had been driving one-way along Ann Street in the city, going from the Valley towards George Street. He had been one of the hundreds of drivers in pre-peak hour traffic, warily watching the lights and other drivers, when suddenly he saw his father walking in the opposite direction on the foot path, on his right hand side. He had resisted the impulse to wave – he couldn’t stand the man. Not what one should think about one’s father, at least not in polite society. But how do you explain vindictive, relentless, stupid cruelty to polite society?

His father didn’t see him, or he was pretty sure he didn’t. And he had looked like death warmed up – his face drawn and pale, with a sort of shadow about it, and an almost demonic cast to the sullen, angry features.

Then he’d driven past and that had been the end of it. Apart from despising him.

The last time he’d seen his father before that was another six months, and that was when the old man had kicked him out of the family home, which was shortly to go under the hammer due to his parents’ divorce.

And that had been the symbolic end of his father’s role as dedicated family man.

True, there’d been a sort of impulse to go and visit him for a few days before his father’s death. He’d resisted it, but if he had to describe it the impulse, the only thing he could have said was that it was sort of “spiritual”, a feeling that just would not go away, quite insistent at times. But hatred and bitterness had won, and he had refused. But the feeling, the persistent impulse to visit – where had it come from?

So on the night of the 11th January 1979, his father visited him instead.

He remembered the setting well. It was January, hot in Brisbane, and with the feeling of persecution he occasionally experienced, he had shut and locked all the windows and doors, except for the bathroom window. He didn’t have much choice in one sense – there were no security screens or bars, and all of them opened onto the balcony or back landing. So if they had been open, anybody could have gotten in. And with his hearing loss, he was unlikely to hear somebody unless they made a lot of noise.

The old double bed had a sag in the middle of it. He had spoken to the landlord about it, but the landlord has simply pointed out the lease said “partly furnished”. By which he meant that if Bob wanted a better bed, he could buy it himself. So far he hadn’t, and as a result he always rolled into the middle.

And it really had been hot and humid. He had to get up at 4.30am, since he started work at 6am, and he had a long way to travel. He had tossed and turned, and finally drifted into a fitful sleep, lying face down, which was how he normally started dozing.

Then at some ungodly hour, he’d felt something shaking his back. He shrugged, and tried to go back to sleep. It happened again, almost as though somebody was trying to wake him up.

So he woke up and turned over. Odd – he must have imagined it, as there was nobody there.

Then something misty began to appear in the corner of the room, near the bedroom door. It seemed to sharpen, and his father appeared.

He watched in amazement as his father approached the foot of the bed.

“Hello, Robert” he said. Yet Bob had the sense his father was not really looking at him, but was mainly focused on something behind him, and above his head. His father did glance at him, but then looked up again, almost enthralled.

Bob was startled. “How the hell did you get in here!” he demanded.

The question remained unanswered. “I’ve come to apologize for the way I’ve treated you” his father said. “We had no idea of what you were going through”. He looked at Bob again, then over his head.

Bob was angry. “You mean you had no idea what you were doing to me”, he replied bitterly.

At this his father appeared distraught, shook his head in fear, and held both hands over his face, as though he could not stand what he was seeing.

Then he seemed to recover, and he resumed looking above Bob’s head, as though gazing at something beautiful. Then at times he would again cover his face with his hands, and a tortured, frightened expression would come over his face.

His father looked devastated. “I’ve completely wrecked your life” he burst out. “And I did it deliberately!”

Bob broke the silence. He had been thinking about the years of intense verbal cruelty his father had lavished upon him, and the intense frustration that had resulted.

“Why!!” he demanded.

The answer was almost immediate.

“I was jealous” was the admission. “I didn’t have the same opportunities that you did. And it wasn’t easy for me either, you know. And I didn’t have the chance to see anything like this!”

“I know it wasn’t easy! Why do you think I was so patient! I knew that by the time I was twelve!”

His father looked deeply ashamed, and shocked, as though realizing for the first time just how much his son had understood, and from what an early age.

But his next reply came as a bit of a shock. “You weren’t very patient”.

Bob was taken aback. He’d thought he’d been very patient, considering just how vicious his father’s diatribes had been. He remembered the constant humiliation, the dripping sarcasm, the cruel comments that followed his every little mistake, or child’s effort to do something. Yet here was his father saying he hadn’t been patient.

Not patient? Compared to what? He’d like to know. He wondered how many other people would have put up with so much deliberate contempt for so long, without cracking.

There was another moment of silence, as father and son reflected on their situations, the son facing his father and his father facing something that could not be seen.

Bob turned around to see what his father was gazing at with such an enraptured expression. But all he could see was the plasterboard, behind which he knew was the brick wall at the end of the building.

He turned back to his father. “What is all this, a dream or something?”

His father looked slightly bemused. “No, it’s not a dream. I died tonight.”

Bob shook his head. “What?”


His father replied again. “I died tonight.”

There was mutual silence.

Then his father raised his hands in front of his face again as thought appalled. Whatever he was looking at seemed to relent, and the enthrallment was back again.

“I served the devil. You do too, but you’ll become a Christian.”

Bob stared at him. “I’m an atheist”.

His father looked bemused again. “You’ll become a Christian.”

Bob felt like laughing. “A Christian! You’ve gotta be kidding!”

Bob’s curiousity got the better of him. “So how’s all this supposed to start?”

His father glanced at him, briefly. “You’ll meet a pastor. You’ll think he’s great, but all he’ll do is discourage you even more!”

Now Bob was beginning to get annoyed.

“You know what really gets to me! Because of the way you’ve treated me, I’ve now treated Penny badly”. But he knew he wasn’t being fully honest – there were two particular instances of behaviour on his part that bothered him.

His father then somehow seemed to be hovering right over him, with the usual bad tempered look on his face, that had been so much a part of him for so long that he did not have a bad temper – he had literally become a bad temper.

“Don’t blame me for that!!” he almost seemed to shout. “That was your decision”.

Bob was afraid for a moment, and he knew his father was right. But it also struck him how quickly his father was on the offensive as soon as he had a particle of ground to justify his stance, as though the twenty years of cruelty he had inflicted were of no consequence. The other bit was, how did his father know what the two instances were? He had never told him about them. Oh, he’d insuated at one stage it was an option, but that was as far as it went.

Then his father disappeared, or seemed to. But as Bob recovered and sat up again, he could see him against the bookcase.

This time his father looked forlorn. “Son, you’ve got to forgive me!”

Bob rebelled. “You treated me like dirt for twenty years, and now you want forgiveness!”

“Son, it’s not for my sake. It’s for your sake. It’s too late for me. All I was expected to do was look after my family, and I didn’t even do that! If you don’t forgive me, you’ll destroy yourself!”

And then his father seemed to be desperate. “Son, you’ve got to believe me!” And a look of complete dejection came over his father’s face.

Bob was angry. “Why should I? You’ve spent the whole of my life …”

But he never finished. As he was talking, his father was turning to his right, Bob’s left, as though he could see something in the distance. He seemed to be taking fright, and said “No!”

Then louder “No! No!”

Then finally, he screamed and shook from head to foot and raised his arms in what appeared to be an attempt to ward something off, something hideously frightening, and cried out in sheer terror, “No…. Arrrgh!” It was so frightening, Bob started to cry out. His father was shaking in every fibre of his being, for lack of a better term.
And then he just disappeared.

And Bob was left staring at the bookcase, in the darkness, alone."


 
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Bob Crowley

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To add to my post above, here are a couple of paragraphs from the Catholic Catechism about the "particular judgment" and the "Last Judgment".



I. THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT

1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.592 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul--a destiny which can be different for some and for others.593

1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification594 or immediately,595 -- or immediate and everlasting damnation.596

At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.597

V. THE LAST JUDGMENT

1038 The resurrection of all the dead, "of both the just and the unjust,"623 will precede the Last Judgment. This will be "the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man's] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment."624 Then Christ will come "in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . . Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."625

1039 In the presence of Christ, who is Truth itself, the truth of each man's relationship with God will be laid bare.626 The Last Judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life:
All that the wicked do is recorded, and they do not know. When "our God comes, he does not keep silence.". . . he will turn towards those at his left hand: . . . "I placed my poor little ones on earth for you. I as their head was seated in heaven at the right hand of my Father - but on earth my members were suffering, my members on earth were in need. If you gave anything to my members, what you gave would reach their Head. Would that you had known that my little ones were in need when I placed them on earth for you and appointed them your stewards to bring your good works into my treasury. But you have placed nothing in their hands; therefore you have found nothing in my presence."627
1040 The Last Judgment will come when Christ returns in glory. Only the Father knows the day and the hour; only he determines the moment of its coming. Then through his Son Jesus Christ he will pronounce the final word on all history. We shall know the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvelous ways by which his Providence led everything towards its final end. The Last Judgment will reveal that God's justice triumphs over all the injustices committed by his creatures and that God's love is stronger than death.628
 
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Radrook

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There are various views on this subject based on different understandings of the Bible.
One interpretation depends on the belief in the human soul as an immortal immaterial entity that is released upon death.

The other depends on the belief that the human being himself is the soul referred to and all of its thoughts cease upon its death.


So for one consciousness ceases while for the other consciousness continues.

In both views there is the hope of a resurrection.
In both views there are certain people who are instantly resurrected to heaven, an experience which makes death a transition instead of a termination of consciousness.

The essential difference between the two views is that one imagines ALL humans being immediately judged upon death while the other believes in a waiting period or a sleeping in death for the vast majority of mankind until the thousand-year Judgement Day arrives for the resurrection.
 
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timewerx

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I'll stick my neck out here. I make the claim that on the night my father died, he appeared in my room. Quite some time later I wrote a narrative which pretty much states what happened, what we said, and his absolutely terrifying scream just before he disappeared again.

I've had other spiritual experiences, and I remember one testimony by a former homosexual who claimed that on his second suicide attempt, Christ appeared in the corner of the room just as he was about to pull the pin, moved towards him, and somehow seemed to merge.

He claimed that from that time on, he never even had to struggle with homosexuality, had married a woman who accepted his past, and they had a couple of young sons at that stage.

So I'm not the only one who has "spiritual experiences".

For my money, when we die, we first of all move out of our bodies, as so many NDE's seem to indicate (hovering over the surgeons, seeing grieving family members etc). Then possibly we go down some sort of tunnel, and I think initially we meet up with some relatives and friends who might have predeceased us. But then comes the judgment!

In Catholic doctrine, there are in a sense two judgements - the first is the "particular judgement" and takes place immediately after death. And what I saw the night my father died was, I think, part of his particular judgement. He was sent to apologise, amongst other things.

Then there's the "final judgement", in which ALL human beings participate, no matter when they died, and at that Judgement, we will see how our actions and lack of actions affected the total human story as a whole, and not just our actions per se, isolated from long term events.

Then we will go our separate ways, for eternity.

If you want to read on, I"ve included the narrative about my "father's death apparition" below.

p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; direction: ltr; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 120%; widows: 2; orphans: 2; }p.western { font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt; }p.cjk { font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt; }p.ctl { font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt; }

FATHER’S DEATH APPARITION

"It had began, precisely, on the 11th January 1979. No, that wasn’t quite true – the background to the scene was set long before that.

But on that night, he had the experience of his father appearing to him in his room. Which was a bit strange – he hadn’t seen his father for six months, and that had been when he had been driving one-way along Ann Street in the city, going from the Valley towards George Street. He had been one of the hundreds of drivers in pre-peak hour traffic, warily watching the lights and other drivers, when suddenly he saw his father walking in the opposite direction on the foot path, on his right hand side. He had resisted the impulse to wave – he couldn’t stand the man. Not what one should think about one’s father, at least not in polite society. But how do you explain vindictive, relentless, stupid cruelty to polite society?

His father didn’t see him, or he was pretty sure he didn’t. And he had looked like death warmed up – his face drawn and pale, with a sort of shadow about it, and an almost demonic cast to the sullen, angry features.

Then he’d driven past and that had been the end of it. Apart from despising him.

The last time he’d seen his father before that was another six months, and that was when the old man had kicked him out of the family home, which was shortly to go under the hammer due to his parents’ divorce.

And that had been the symbolic end of his father’s role as dedicated family man.

True, there’d been a sort of impulse to go and visit him for a few days before his father’s death. He’d resisted it, but if he had to describe it the impulse, the only thing he could have said was that it was sort of “spiritual”, a feeling that just would not go away, quite insistent at times. But hatred and bitterness had won, and he had refused. But the feeling, the persistent impulse to visit – where had it come from?

So on the night of the 11th January 1979, his father visited him instead.

He remembered the setting well. It was January, hot in Brisbane, and with the feeling of persecution he occasionally experienced, he had shut and locked all the windows and doors, except for the bathroom window. He didn’t have much choice in one sense – there were no security screens or bars, and all of them opened onto the balcony or back landing. So if they had been open, anybody could have gotten in. And with his hearing loss, he was unlikely to hear somebody unless they made a lot of noise.

The old double bed had a sag in the middle of it. He had spoken to the landlord about it, but the landlord has simply pointed out the lease said “partly furnished”. By which he meant that if Bob wanted a better bed, he could buy it himself. So far he hadn’t, and as a result he always rolled into the middle.

And it really had been hot and humid. He had to get up at 4.30am, since he started work at 6am, and he had a long way to travel. He had tossed and turned, and finally drifted into a fitful sleep, lying face down, which was how he normally started dozing.

Then at some ungodly hour, he’d felt something shaking his back. He shrugged, and tried to go back to sleep. It happened again, almost as though somebody was trying to wake him up.

So he woke up and turned over. Odd – he must have imagined it, as there was nobody there.

Then something misty began to appear in the corner of the room, near the bedroom door. It seemed to sharpen, and his father appeared.

He watched in amazement as his father approached the foot of the bed.

“Hello, Robert” he said. Yet Bob had the sense his father was not really looking at him, but was mainly focused on something behind him, and above his head. His father did glance at him, but then looked up again, almost enthralled.

Bob was startled. “How the hell did you get in here!” he demanded.

The question remained unanswered. “I’ve come to apologize for the way I’ve treated you” his father said. “We had no idea of what you were going through”. He looked at Bob again, then over his head.

Bob was angry. “You mean you had no idea what you were doing to me”, he replied bitterly.

At this his father appeared distraught, shook his head in fear, and held both hands over his face, as though he could not stand what he was seeing.

Then he seemed to recover, and he resumed looking above Bob’s head, as though gazing at something beautiful. Then at times he would again cover his face with his hands, and a tortured, frightened expression would come over his face.

His father looked devastated. “I’ve completely wrecked your life” he burst out. “And I did it deliberately!”

Bob broke the silence. He had been thinking about the years of intense verbal cruelty his father had lavished upon him, and the intense frustration that had resulted.

“Why!!” he demanded.

The answer was almost immediate.

“I was jealous” was the admission. “I didn’t have the same opportunities that you did. And it wasn’t easy for me either, you know. And I didn’t have the chance to see anything like this!”

“I know it wasn’t easy! Why do you think I was so patient! I knew that by the time I was twelve!”

His father looked deeply ashamed, and shocked, as though realizing for the first time just how much his son had understood, and from what an early age.

But his next reply came as a bit of a shock. “You weren’t very patient”.

Bob was taken aback. He’d thought he’d been very patient, considering just how vicious his father’s diatribes had been. He remembered the constant humiliation, the dripping sarcasm, the cruel comments that followed his every little mistake, or child’s effort to do something. Yet here was his father saying he hadn’t been patient.

Not patient? Compared to what? He’d like to know. He wondered how many other people would have put up with so much deliberate contempt for so long, without cracking.

There was another moment of silence, as father and son reflected on their situations, the son facing his father and his father facing something that could not be seen.

Bob turned around to see what his father was gazing at with such an enraptured expression. But all he could see was the plasterboard, behind which he knew was the brick wall at the end of the building.

He turned back to his father. “What is all this, a dream or something?”

His father looked slightly bemused. “No, it’s not a dream. I died tonight.”

Bob shook his head. “What?”


His father replied again. “I died tonight.”

There was mutual silence.

Then his father raised his hands in front of his face again as thought appalled. Whatever he was looking at seemed to relent, and the enthrallment was back again.

“I served the devil. You do too, but you’ll become a Christian.”

Bob stared at him. “I’m an atheist”.

His father looked bemused again. “You’ll become a Christian.”

Bob felt like laughing. “A Christian! You’ve gotta be kidding!”

Bob’s curiousity got the better of him. “So how’s all this supposed to start?”

His father glanced at him, briefly. “You’ll meet a pastor. You’ll think he’s great, but all he’ll do is discourage you even more!”

Now Bob was beginning to get annoyed.

“You know what really gets to me! Because of the way you’ve treated me, I’ve now treated Penny badly”. But he knew he wasn’t being fully honest – there were two particular instances of behaviour on his part that bothered him.

His father then somehow seemed to be hovering right over him, with the usual bad tempered look on his face, that had been so much a part of him for so long that he did not have a bad temper – he had literally become a bad temper.

“Don’t blame me for that!!” he almost seemed to shout. “That was your decision”.

Bob was afraid for a moment, and he knew his father was right. But it also struck him how quickly his father was on the offensive as soon as he had a particle of ground to justify his stance, as though the twenty years of cruelty he had inflicted were of no consequence. The other bit was, how did his father know what the two instances were? He had never told him about them. Oh, he’d insuated at one stage it was an option, but that was as far as it went.

Then his father disappeared, or seemed to. But as Bob recovered and sat up again, he could see him against the bookcase.

This time his father looked forlorn. “Son, you’ve got to forgive me!”

Bob rebelled. “You treated me like dirt for twenty years, and now you want forgiveness!”

“Son, it’s not for my sake. It’s for your sake. It’s too late for me. All I was expected to do was look after my family, and I didn’t even do that! If you don’t forgive me, you’ll destroy yourself!”

And then his father seemed to be desperate. “Son, you’ve got to believe me!” And a look of complete dejection came over his father’s face.

Bob was angry. “Why should I? You’ve spent the whole of my life …”

But he never finished. As he was talking, his father was turning to his right, Bob’s left, as though he could see something in the distance. He seemed to be taking fright, and said “No!”

Then louder “No! No!”

Then finally, he screamed and shook from head to foot and raised his arms in what appeared to be an attempt to ward something off, something hideously frightening, and cried out in sheer terror, “No…. Arrrgh!” It was so frightening, Bob started to cry out. His father was shaking in every fibre of his being, for lack of a better term.
And then he just disappeared.

And Bob was left staring at the bookcase, in the darkness, alone."


Sorry about your father, that was a great read though! If a little bit scary.

A different thing happened with my dog when she died. She paid a visit before and immediately after she died and I have no idea she was sick and died because I was away and my folks did not want me to know but I knew it anyway because my dog visited me thousands of miles away in spirit.

It was absolutely calm and peaceful. There was someone with her who was looking after her.
 
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ladybug6

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I have so often heard uttered at funerals, 'He or She is in heaven now'.

Is that really what happens when we die?

For I have also heard those that KNEW that the person that died was totally 'anti Christ', "He or she is in heaven with God now". So regardless of one's beliefs about what happens to us when we die, certainly this doesn't pertain to those who will be judged according to 'death'. Certainly 'they' won't be in heaven with God.

But what does the Bible offer concerning 'death' of the 'body'? When we die, (or flesh), what happens to our Spirit or 'soul'?

Blessings,

MEC
the bible says clearly what happens look at luke 16 and read the rich man went to hell and lazareth went to heaven they went instant so we do also
 
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Radrook

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Not all Christians understand that Lazarus and the Rich man parable as literal.
One reason why some Christians avoid a literal interpretation is because it portrays God as finding pleasure in human suffering and consider it an unintended defamation against God's character.
 
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Imagican

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the bible says clearly what happens look at luke 16 and read the rich man went to hell and lazareth went to heaven they went instant so we do also

How do you determine this is 'not' a parable? Basically information offered about there being a 'barrier' between heaven and hell?

The gist of the words is that once one has been judged, there is nothing that can be done to alter that judgement.

That being the case, it could certainly be referencing a 'future time'. Not of a necessity something that has already taken place. Parables are often figurative stories that are not 'real' or something that actually happened, but meant to convey a 'message' regardless of their actually have taken place.

The story of the Prodigal Son isn't meant to be taken literal. It is a figurative story. So it's not the 'story' or it's having actually taken place that matters. It is the message that it's meant to convey.

So, from my perspective, it is certainly not 'as clear' as you have come to believe.

Blessings,

MEC
 
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Bob Crowley

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Sorry about your father, that was a great read though! If a little bit scary.

A different thing happened with my dog when she died. She paid a visit before and immediately after she died and I have no idea she was sick and died because I was away and my folks did not want me to know but I knew it anyway because my dog visited me thousands of miles away in spirit.

It was absolutely calm and peaceful. There was someone with her who was looking after her.

Yes, it was frightening. Long time ago now though.

Nice to hear about your dog. I sometimes wonder what happens to animals when they die. Mind you it's usually our pets we think about, and not the millions of other creatures who die every day, from microscopic life to whole schools of fish, to all the animals we slaughter every day for food.

But still I like to think there's some form of after life, particularly for those animals who suffer terribly, either by natural causes or human cruelty, and there's plenty of that about.
 
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Imagican

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In order to answer the question posed, I believe that it's crucial that the 'time' of judgment be addressed.

From a Biblical perspective, what are we informed of as the 'time' of judgement taking place?

Is there to be more than one judgement?

And if there is only one 'time' of judgement, doesn't that mean that 'all' will be judged at 'that time'?

If our judgement determines who lives and who dies the second death, how then could anyone who has died be in heaven already?

So if no one has been judged yet and therefore no one is in heaven yet, what happens between the time our bodies die and we face judgment?

I already heard the perspective that we are judged immediately. But that isn't Biblical from what I have read. I believe that the Bible makes it perfectly clear that the 'time' of judgment will be one thousand years after Christ's return. So that in and of itself destroys the idea that we are all judged immediately after our bodies die.

So what happens to our souls or 'spirit' during the 'thousand years' between Christ's return and the 'time of judgment'?

Blessings,

MEC
 
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Imagican

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Yes, it was frightening. Long time ago now though.

Nice to hear about your dog. I sometimes wonder what happens to animals when they die. Mind you it's usually our pets we think about, and not the millions of other creatures who die every day, from microscopic life to whole schools of fish, to all the animals we slaughter every day for food.

But still I like to think there's some form of after life, particularly for those animals who suffer terribly, either by natural causes or human cruelty, and there's plenty of that about.

What if that is part of 'our' judgement? How we treat life on this planet during our own lives?

There is a difference between accidentally stepping on ants during one's daily trek through this life.

But what about those that would intentionally kill ants or any bug just to be killing? Like the hunter that kills 'just for sport'?

It is my belief that 'all life' is precious and a necessary part of this world. How we view that 'life' is certainly worthy of 'judgment'. Those that abuse it just because it's here are certainly of a different mind and heart 'set' than those that recognize that 'all life' is important.

The examples of our interference are plentiful. When we decide that we can control the population of certain animals, each time we attempt to do so it causes an imbalance that always ends up with negative consequences.

I don't believe that we are to 'worship' the natural world. But I do believe that we have a responsibility to use it in a responsible manner. In that respect, we have failed miserably as a group.

But what happens to animals when they die? The Bible doesn't offer an answer to that. The indication though is that they were put here for our benefit. And when God formed Adam He breathed into Adam the 'breath of life' and Adam became a 'living soul'. We are not told that animals are 'living souls'.

So when they die, they are probably 'just dead'. They are not judged and therefore simply cease to exist upon their death.

Otherwise, that would certainly be a scary thought: that the animals we 'eat' have literal 'souls'.

Blessings,

MEC
 
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Radrook

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In order to answer the question posed, I believe that it's crucial that the 'time' of judgment be addressed.

From a Biblical perspective, what are we informed of as the 'time' of judgement taking place?

Is there to be more than one judgement?

And if there is only one 'time' of judgement, doesn't that mean that 'all' will be judged at 'that time'?

If our judgement determines who lives and who dies the second death, how then could anyone who has died be in heaven already?

So if no one has been judged yet and therefore no one is in heaven yet, what happens between the time our bodies die and we face judgment?

I already heard the perspective that we are judged immediately. But that isn't Biblical from what I have read. I believe that the Bible makes it perfectly clear that the 'time' of judgment will be one thousand years after Christ's return. So that in and of itself destroys the idea that we are all judged immediately after our bodies die.

So what happens to our souls or 'spirit' during the 'thousand years' between Christ's return and the 'time of judgment'?

Blessings,

MEC

Definitely, I agree 100%. The whole Bible is the context that must be taken into consideration if we wish to avoid generating what appear to be a host of irreconcilable doctrinal contradictions which become the target of those who wish to prove that the Bible indeed has serious flaws.
 
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MerriestHouse

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At the Cross, Christ purchased our salvation. By His resurrection, He gave believers the victory over death and the grave.

John 11:24 Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?" 27 She said to him, "Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, he who is coming into the world."
 
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Imagican

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At the Cross, Christ purchased our salvation. By His resurrection, He gave believers the victory over death and the grave.

John 11:24 Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?" 27 She said to him, "Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, he who is coming into the world."

Yet this is not 'all' the information we are given concerning dying. In many instances it is referred to as 'sleep'. So if our bodies die, yet our spirit or soul sleeps, exactly when do we 'receive' eternal life? According to the Bible.

Blessings,

MEC
 
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Amatorreginae

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Going purely by the Bible, we read Ecclesiastes telling us that "the dead do not know anything" (9:5) and "[T]here is no work or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Hell [Sheol; the World of the Dead] where you are going" (v.10), and "the spirit will return to God who gave it" (12:7). Someone may cite the medium of En-dor's raising the Prophet Samuel from the Underworld, but we are not to conclude that what appeared was really Samuel, and God would not have allowed a prophet to to appear to a medium. Someone might also mention Christ's parable of Dives and Lazarus; this is just a parable, and one that isn't meant to teach us about what happens after death. We shouldn't conclude from it that there really is a gulf separating Paradise (Heaven isn't mentioned) from Gehenna (not Hell) across which people can communicate. Christ mentions the Resurrection and St Paul teaches it, and Revelation mentions it. So what we have is complete unconsciousness at death then resurrection with full consciousness to await judgment. If we are to say that the dead are conscious, we have to say that they are in fact alive; death is the opposite of life.
 
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Imagican

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Going purely by the Bible, we read Ecclesiastes telling us that "the dead do not know anything" (9:5) and "[T]here is no work or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Hell [Sheol; the World of the Dead] where you are going" (v.10), and "the spirit will return to God who gave it" (12:7). Someone may cite the medium of En-dor's raising the Prophet Samuel from the Underworld, but we are not to conclude that what appeared was really Samuel, and God would not have allowed a prophet to to appear to a medium. Someone might also mention Christ's parable of Dives and Lazarus; this is just a parable, and one that isn't meant to teach us about what happens after death. We shouldn't conclude from it that there really is a gulf separating Paradise (Heaven isn't mentioned) from Gehenna (not Hell) across which people can communicate. Christ mentions the Resurrection and St Paul teaches it, and Revelation mentions it. So what we have is complete unconsciousness at death then resurrection with full consciousness to await judgment. If we are to say that the dead are conscious, we have to say that they are in fact alive; death is the opposite of life.

See? Now 'that' is what I'm talking about. Biblical information void of 'wishful thinking' or influence of 'churches' that teach their own agendas outside of the Bible.

This is exactly what the Bible indicates. We 'all' sleep upon the death of this vessel. Sleep until the time of judgement.

So in essence, death is going to be like 'going to sleep' and then 'waking up'. No one ever has any sense of 'time' concerning their 'sleep'. We go to sleep and then we wake up.

So that means that it's possible that it will seem no different than sleeping now. Regardless of how long we sleep, when we wake up it will seem like we just went to sleep.

Those that are in comas rarely exhibit any sense of 'time' when they awake. They have their last memories of what happened before the coma and then the wake up and it seems to them like it's the 'next day'. When there are times that a person has been in a coma for weeks, months, years. To them it seems like any other 'sleep'.

Blessings,

MEC
 
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JohnRabbit

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So would the writers of the Bible really use the word 'sleep' in the same manner as death?

yes, they would!

John 11:11-14(NKJV)
11These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.”
13However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.

also notice:

Psalms 13:3(NKJV)
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God; Enlighten my eyes, Lest I sleep the sleep of death; (see also Daniel 12:2)

so, the bible does refer to sleep as death!
 
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Imagican

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So 'all' will sleep, (when the flesh dies, the spirit or soul lives on in a state that resembles sleep). And we are also informed that at some point in the future, all will 'awake' to face judgement.

So where does the 'idea' that upon one's physical 'death', they immediately end up in heaven or 'hell'?

In fact, isn't 'hell' merely a reference to 'the grave'? That 'all our bodies' end up 'in the grave' or in 'hell'?

Blessings,

MEC
 
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Radrook

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So 'all' will sleep, (when the flesh dies, the spirit or soul lives on in a state that resembles sleep). And we are also informed that at some point in the future, all will 'awake' to face judgement.

So where does the 'idea' that upon one's physical 'death', they immediately end up in heaven or 'hell'?

In fact, isn't 'hell' merely a reference to 'the grave'? That 'all our bodies' end up 'in the grave' or in 'hell'?

Blessings,

MEC

Misinterpretation of the words Sheol and Gehenna is definitely a factor.
 
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