God grants repentance to life

[fli]

What is the gospel? The predominate position seems to be “Repent of your sins and believe in Jesus.”


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. NKJV


People are saved by God's grace through faith. The faith they have is a gift from God. Just before Jesus died on the cross, He said “It is finished”, He meant that everything needed for man to be saved was accomplished by Him. The things needed for salvation are a sinless sacrifice for our sins, repentance toward God and saving faith. God gives all three when people believe in Jesus.


Since faith is a gift from God and God wants everyone to come to repentance, why isn't everyone given faith? First, the person hearing the message must believe the message. Next, to receive a gift one must want the gift. How do people show that they want the gift? When people hear the gospel, they must want the gift of life eternal in heaven. If that is appealing to them and they hear that all they need do is believe in Jesus, hope springs to life in their heart for an eternity in heaven with Jesus.


Colossians 1:4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope, which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, NKJV

The saving faith all believers have comes from the hope they have for going to heaven. People who hear the gospel message and do not want to go to heaven will not get hope from the message. People who want to go to heaven will hear the message and hope will well up in their heart. The moment they believe they get the Spirit of Jesus and the Spirit of the Father in their heart. Jesus gave them hope which gives them faith. Therefore, Jesus gave them faith.


Saving Faith: Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. NKJV


The substance of things hoped for is Jesus.


Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV


The Spirit of Jesus is also the evidence of things unseen in the definition of faith.


In the gospel message they are told the Son of God, Jesus the Christ, died for their sins. They are also told that Jesus was resurrected from the dead for their justification, proof of their forgiveness. When they placed their faith in Him, believed that His sacrifice was for their sins, they repented toward God by believing that He sent Jesus to die for them.


John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. NKJV


Because they believed in Jesus for forgiveness of their sins, they admitted they were sinners, and their sins were forgiven.


Acts 5:31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. NKJV


Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life." NKJV


Because they believed Jesus was the Son of God, they knew that He would expect his children to behave like sons of God. If they agree to His discipline God grants repentance of their sins.


Romans 7:25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. NKJV


Romans 8:6 in order for a person to agree to be disciplined a person must be spiritually minded. Romans 7 a spiritually minded person agrees that God's laws are holy, just and good. They want to serve the law of God. Unfortunately, all spiritual minds are in a body of flesh. All humans are sold under sin. This means all people are slaves to sin. Christians have a choice to walk in the Spirit and put to death the sins of the flesh or to be disciplined to physical death. If they are disciplined to physical death they die and go to heaven.


2 Timothy 2:11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him,
He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. NKJV


People of little faith under discipline do not have the faith to face withdrawal from sin. They want to walk in the Spirit because they have a spiritual mind, but they do not have the faith to face withdrawal from sin. Their spiritual mind pleases God and keeps them in Jesus. Jesus cannot deny them.


1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV


The purpose of discipline is to keep us from losing salvation.


John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. NKJV


As long as people have hope in Jesus, they believe Jesus is their savior. The only people judged with the world are people that do not believe that Jesus is their savior.

 

[bling]

All people have a God given faith to worship something, a person has to direct that faith toward God believing God could forgive them.
Repentance (turning) can be done by anyone just look at the prodigal son's turning (for selfish reason [undeserved help from his father]). The "turning" does not mean we changed sides, just like a soldier who surrenders is not changing sides but is just willing to take pure undeserved charity from his enemy.
Our part is by faith we are willing to just humbly accept God's pure undeserved charity Love) and thus automatically obtain Godly type Love (Luke 7).

 

[d taylor]

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​

The repentance of your sins can be dropped from a gospel message. It is belief in Jesus, which gives people God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Plus faith is not the gift, the gift is Eternal Life.

Every person has the ability to exercise faith in something. Today it looks like a lot people place their faith in man. Like science, governments, corporations, celebrities, sports, money, etc.....

 

[fli]

Mr. bling and d taylor

Thank you both for your replies.


Yes, Mr. bling your right, repentance can be done by anyone. As I stated if they believe the message and want what the message offers, eternal life with Jesus in heaven, they can repent. As I see it people who meet those two conditions repent without realizing they are repenting.

When I put myself in the audience at Cornelius' house (Acts 10: 34-43) my thought process proves my sinfulness. Because I've been told that this guy, Peter, a Jew, is going to tell me how to get to heaven I would be anxious to hear what he had to say. I imagine my thought process would be from verses 34 to 42, come on Peter skip this useless information, just tell me what I have to do. Everyone knows that the Gods expect their subjects to do great deeds to earn their (the God's) blessings. At verse 43 when I learned all that I had to do was believe in Jesus the Savior and boom I was speaking in a new language, praising God. Without realizing it I had put my hope in Jesus had repented by believing. Later, I would have learned that what I though was useless information was the gospel.

Yes, Mr. d taylor repent can and should be dropped from the gospel. There are times when repentance is appropriate. Acts 2 and 3 when Peter was speaking to those who had demanded that Pilate crucify Jesus, the call for repentance was justified. If they repented of their rejection of Jesus as the messiah, they might believe in Him. Repenting of that sin would help coping with the guilt when they realized their sin.


As to eternal life being a gift, your right. However, it is not the only gift. Jesus is the main gift. God's grace, His mercy, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, repentance and our saving faith are all gifts from God. Then there are the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Since love is listed as both a gift and a fruit of the Spirit then I include the fruits as a gift also. Fruits also include joy add peace which true joy and true peace can only be found in Jesus.


Thank you both for your replies. To continue why believing the gospel is repentance.


Genesis 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': NKJV


What God punished Adam for is after the because. When Adam heeded the voice of his wife he proved that he did not believe God. Therefore, not believing God was Adam's first mistake (sin).



Isaiah 41:22 "Let them bring forth and show us what will happen; Let them show the former things, what they were, That we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; Or declare to us things to come. NKJV


If we know how something began, we will know how it ends. Sin and death began in the garden when Adam did not believe God.

Genesis 15:2 But Abram said, "Lord God, what will You give me, seeing I go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?" …........ 5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. NKJV


When man believes God sin and death end.


John 3: 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. NKJV


God said that if we believe in Jesus, we will have eternal life. If we believe God death ends for us.


John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. NKJV

Sin ends for us when we believe God and believe in Jesus.

 

[bling]

You say: "Therefore, not believing God was Adam's first mistake (sin).", but I do not find that in scripture and in fact find "Adam was not deceived".
Adam knew what he was doing, but he was "with" Eve where "with" means something other than just close proximity. Adam and Eve had become "one", so Adam could not live without Eve and would go where she goes.

 

[fli]

You say: "Therefore, not believing God was Adam's first mistake (sin).", but I do not find that in scripture and in fact find "Adam was not deceived".
Adam knew what he was doing, but he was "with" Eve where "with" means something other than just close proximity. Adam and Eve had become "one", so Adam could not live without Eve and would go where she goes.

First who did God say sinned in the garden?

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. NKJV

God blames Adam for sinning in the garden and causing death to man.

What did God say about Eve?

1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. NKJV

God agreed with Eve that she had been deceived. God further said that Eve fell into sin by being deceived. The entire world fell into sin when Adam sinned.

Genesis 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': NKJV


God said because Adam heeded the word of his wife. We know that Adam sinned. It is not a sin for a man to heed the voice of his wife. If a man obeys the voice of his wife instead of the voice of God, it is a sin. God said that Adam would surely die if he ate of the fruit.

Genesis 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. NKJV

Eve must have said what was in her mind, that the fruit was good for food, pleasing to the eyes and would make one wise. Whose voice did Adam heed? Eves! The Hebrew word translated heed also means heard or hear. We know Adam heard both God and Eves voices. The word also means obey which fits the context of the verse especially since Adam sinned. To obey one's wife instead of God is a sin. Why would Adam obey the voice of Eve instead of God? I say Adam believed Eve and not God. When he ate the fruit, it showed who he believed.

Your belief that Adam loved Eve and did not want her to die doesn't make since in light of what he said to God.

Genesis 3:12 Then the man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate. NKJV

It sounds like Adam is a kid that got caught doing something he shouldn't have done, and he blames everyone but himself. We know that God has said that Adam sinned. If only one was to die it would be him and not Eve.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good day,

Yuppers

And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake

The commands to repent and believe are only obeyed once God completes his work of regeneration (born again), He alone is the only effective cause of our walking and obeying His statues. His work in removing, putting, and giving will serve the intention(s) of God.


A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.

In Him,

Bill

 

[bling]

First who did God say sinned in the garden?

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. NKJV

God blames Adam for sinning in the garden and causing death to man.

What did God say about Eve?

1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. NKJV

God agreed with Eve that she had been deceived. God further said that Eve fell into sin by being deceived. The entire world fell into sin when Adam sinned.

Genesis 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': NKJV


God said because Adam heeded the word of his wife. We know that Adam sinned. It is not a sin for a man to heed the voice of his wife. If a man obeys the voice of his wife instead of the voice of God, it is a sin. God said that Adam would surely die if he ate of the fruit.

Genesis 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. NKJV

Eve must have said what was in her mind, that the fruit was good for food, pleasing to the eyes and would make one wise. Whose voice did Adam heed? Eves! The Hebrew word translated heed also means heard or hear. We know Adam heard both God and Eves voices. The word also means obey which fits the context of the verse especially since Adam sinned. To obey one's wife instead of God is a sin. Why would Adam obey the voice of Eve instead of God? I say Adam believed Eve and not God. When he ate the fruit, it showed who he believed.

Your belief that Adam loved Eve and did not want her to die doesn't make since in light of what he said to God.

Genesis 3:12 Then the man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate. NKJV

It sounds like Adam is a kid that got caught doing something he shouldn't have done, and he blames everyone but himself. We know that God has said that Adam sinned. If only one was to die it would be him and not Eve.

I am not saying Adam did not sin, because Adam did sin.
It sounds to me that Adam's wonderful love for Eve was greater than his love for God at that time.
Adam was not trying to get Eve in trouble but was trying to get himself out of trouble somehow, Adam knew they both had sinned.
Where are you getting the idea: "Adam believed Eve and not God. When he ate the fruit, it showed who he believed." If Adam was not deceived than he knew he would die, and Eve would die.
The Bible says: "Adam was not deceived", so Eve did not deceive Adam either, he knew what he was doing.

 

[fli]

I am not saying Adam did not sin, because Adam did sin.
It sounds to me that Adam's wonderful love for Eve was greater than his love for God at that time.
Adam was not trying to get Eve in trouble but was trying to get himself out of trouble somehow, Adam knew they both had sinned.
Where are you getting the idea: "Adam believed Eve and not God. When he ate the fruit, it showed who he believed." If Adam was not deceived than he knew he would die, and Eve would die.
The Bible says: "Adam was not deceived", so Eve did not deceive Adam either, he knew what he was doing.

Genesis 3:3 but of the fruit of the tree, which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'" NKJV

Eve did not sin at all until after the fall.

Eve was created after God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. We have no information on how Eve learned of the warning concerning the tree. God warns us not to add to or take away from God's word. In verse 3 God's word is added to. The reason not to add to or take away from God's word is because it may cause one to sin. I was taught that adding to God's word was the reason Eve was deceived. Somehow the serpent accidentally pushed her into the tree, and nothing happened. Then she believed the serpent.

No where does God say Eve sinned in this incident. She was not faulted for being deceived. She is not faulted for adding to God's word. She did not sin by eating the fruit.

Adam was the one God had put in charge. I believe he was the only one that could give the title deed away. As far as we know God only warned him about the tree. No one could sin until Adam ate of the fruit and all humans gained knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3: 6a So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. NKJV

She ate of the fruit and her eyes were not opened. If she had sinned, sin had entered the world and Adam's eyes would have been opened.

Genesis 3:6 b She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. NKJV

The scripture is clear Eve ate and then gave some to Adam. When Adam ate of the fruit then (at that time) both their eyes were opened. When Adam sinned, the entire world fell into sin including Eve.

Your right, nowhere does it say Adam did not believe God.

 

[bling]

Genesis 3:3 but of the fruit of the tree, which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'" NKJV

Eve did not sin at all until after the fall.

Eve was created after God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. We have no information on how Eve learned of the warning concerning the tree. God warns us not to add to or take away from God's word. In verse 3 God's word is added to. The reason not to add to or take away from God's word is because it may cause one to sin. I was taught that adding to God's word was the reason Eve was deceived. Somehow the serpent accidentally pushed her into the tree, and nothing happened. Then she believed the serpent.

No where does God say Eve sinned in this incident. She was not faulted for being deceived. She is not faulted for adding to God's word. She did not sin by eating the fruit.

Adam was the one God had put in charge. I believe he was the only one that could give the title deed away. As far as we know God only warned him about the tree. No one could sin until Adam ate of the fruit and all humans gained knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3: 6a So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. NKJV

She ate of the fruit and her eyes were not opened. If she had sinned, sin had entered the world and Adam's eyes would have been opened.

Genesis 3:6 b She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. NKJV

The scripture is clear Eve ate and then gave some to Adam. When Adam ate of the fruit then (at that time) both their eyes were opened. When Adam sinned, the entire world fell into sin including Eve.

Your right, nowhere does it say Adam did not believe God.

We agree: “nowhere does it say Adam did not believe God”.

Your explanation has: “the serpent accidentally pushed her into the tree, and nothing happened. Then she believed the serpent.” Which is totally made up. This “addition” seems to be there to help justify Eve eating the fruit.

I fully agree we do not know where Eve got the “you must not touch it, or you will die.’”, but the first part is accurate: 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden.”

Since the forbidden fruit does provide “knowledge” of good and evil, the person eating would go from one way to sin, to now a ton of ways to sin, which I do not see God wanting them to have initially.

Eve is not innocent 16 To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” Women go through a lot of pain in child bearing, so how can you say God was not faulting her?

God does allow us to “sin” and learn from it, but if Eve is not sinning and will go through severe hardship, yet not sinning that is not Godly Love.

If Eve ate of the forbidden fruit and Adam had not sinned, would that mean no one sinned and life goes on? Adam did sin so all this went on to happen.

 

[fli]

Good day,

Yuppers

And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake

The commands to repent and believe are only obeyed once God completes his work of regeneration (born again), He alone is the only effective cause of our walking and obeying His statues. His work in removing, putting, and giving will serve the intention(s) of God.


A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.

In Him,

Bill

Mr. bling

I will agree to disagree with you.

Thank you


Mr. BBAS 64 thank you for your reply.

Philippians 1:29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, NKJV


You say that: “The commands to repent and believe can only be obeyed once God completes His work of regeneration (born again), He alone is the only effective cause of our walking and obeying His statues. His work in removing, putting, and giving will serve the intention(s) of God.”


I hope I copied it right. You cited Philippians 1: 29 above. That verse does make it sound like it means as you have said.

I disagree. We are born again when we get the Spirit of Jesus.


Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, NKJV


Having believed we received the Spirit. We believed and then received the Spirit.


Galatians 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? NKJV


Hearing of faith is believing the gospel. We are born from above when we believe, not the other way around.


As to Philippians 1: 29. Not everyone in the kingdom of God has been granted to suffer for Him. For this privilege God does choose and grant them to believe at the time and place He chooses. This is best seen in the conversion of Saul.


Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake." NKJV


Paul was looking forward to being a respected powerful person in Judaism. Being a member of the way was the furthest thing in his mind. Paul as an elect was chosen out of the world. He was called at this time to suffer for Jesus, this was his time that was greatest benefit for Jesus.


Acts 9:21 Then all who heard were amazed, and said, "Is this not he who destroyed those who called on this name in Jerusalem, and has come here for that purpose, so that he might bring them bound to the chief priests?" NKJV



Paul's conversion not only stunned the messianic Jews, but I have also been told that his name has been stricken out of Jewish history by unbelieving Israel.


Because verse 29 starts by informing the Philippian that they have been granted the privilege of suffering that Paul was preparing them for persecution. He wanted them to know God had chosen them for this and prepared them for persecution.


John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. NKJV


In one respect all the elect are chosen. But in respect to persecution Jesus decides who gets the privilege. Jesus calls all the elect at the appropriate time and place.

Mark 13:20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. NKJV

Jesus chose those of the elect to face the great tribulation. We know that God chose all the elect out of the world. But for the elect in the tribulation, Jesus chose which of the elect would be granted the privilege.