Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[EastCoastRemnant]

KluteDavid,

This is one of those references by Jesus to aspects of the Mosaic law not the Divine Law written by God on tables of stone. Jesus was not here addressing the Commandment of bearing false witness or making a claim against another. Jesus is saying not to make public (or private) deals with God (oaths) that are not in our power to keep. It's the difference between saying, "Lord, I promise (swear, make an oath) to never sin again" vs " Lord, I surrender my heart to you that through your Grace, I may not sin again" The first is based on our righteousness, the second is on Christ's righteousness.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I think every denomination has problems. Too many people sit back and listen to a teacher instead of actually searching the scriptures to see if what he says is true or not, unlike the Berean Jews. The internet has changed all that. It actually makes searching the scriptures much easier.

While agree that we are not to believe anything that has not been tested by scripture, this does not mean that there are not truths that have been and will always stand that test. These truths are present in all denominations. But we need to be careful not to become an island unto ourselves, thinking that we alone have present truth.

My example is that while I agree with what the SDA pioneers believe in regards to the Bible (through my own testing of those beliefs), there are certain things that the SDA church now believes that has no basis in scripture and cannot be followed in conscience. That said, I still refer to myself as a Seventh day Adventist as I believe they are the only ones that are proclaiming the end time message... namely the 3 angels messages of Rev 14.

 

[Extraneous]

But we need to be careful not to become an island unto ourselves, thinking that we alone have present truth.

Like i said brother, i didn't learn on my own. CF helped me learn.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Like i said brother, i didn't learn on my own. CF helped me learn.

And that is why some here stand up to the legalists who try to foist their "Gospel of works" upon Christians.

 

[Extraneous]

And that is why some here stand up to the legalists who try to foist their "Gospel of works" upon Christians.

What another poster said got me thinking. So i need to ask a question. Why is it that only SDA are being criticized by yourself, bugkiller, and other like minded posters? Surely every denomination has problems, and surely RC is teaching an even more legalistic and man made doctrine than SDA is teaching. Why not challenge them as well?

 

[Extraneous]

It could be theorized that RC is the head of all false doctrine. I choose my words carefully here, and im trying to walk a narrow path, but this seems important so i must raise the question. Every denomination is really just a spin off of Catholicism. Catholicism went off the rails and dragged everyone else down with it. Some people have asserted that RC persecuted and destroyed all the real teachers and that's why we ended up with this mess in the first place.

 

[Sophrosyne]

What another poster said got me thinking. So i need to ask a question. Why is it that only SDA are being criticized by yourself, bugkiller, and other like minded posters? Surely every denomination has problems, and surely RC is teaching an even more legalistic and man made doctrine than SDA is teaching. Why not challenge them as well?

I think it would be hard to compare the two when it comes to who is more legalistic, but I think that the issue is more obvious in that in a debate area there are those who are constantly promoting their beliefs even to the level of evangelizing others the RC is a lot less active here. I think one issue is that the RC doesn't believe in sola scriptura or pretend that the Bible alone is enough to base doctrine upon when the SDA pretend to do so even actively promoting Bible alone while deceitfully rejecting any Biblical proof that flies in contrast to their prophetesses teachings making themselves essentially in the same ball game as the RCA when it comes to tradition vs the Bible.

 

[Extraneous]

I think it would be hard to compare the two when it comes to who is more legalistic, but I think that the issue is more obvious in that in a debate area there are those who are constantly promoting their beliefs even to the level of evangelizing others the RC is a lot less active here. I think one issue is that the RC doesn't believe in sola scriptura or pretend that the Bible alone is enough to base doctrine upon when the SDA pretend to do so even actively promoting Bible alone while deceitfully rejecting any Biblical proof that flies in contrast to their prophetesses teachings making themselves essentially in the same ball game as the RCA when it comes to tradition vs the Bible.

See my last post now.

 

[Sophrosyne]

It could be theorized that RC is the head of all false doctrine. I choose my words carefully here, and im trying to walk a narrow path, but this seems important so i must raise the question. Every denomination is really just a spin off of Catholicism. Catholicism went off the rails and dragged everyone else down with it. Some people have asserted that RC persecuted and destroyed all the real teachers and that's why we ended up with this mess in the first place.

I think the RCC continued on the mess but unless you buy into what they say most people think that the church had issues before the RCC came to power and bore the resemblence of the RCC today. I think even before the orthodox churches split off from them there were problems as I find teachings of the orthodox in error too and instead of them rejecting those errors they kept them just the same. I think that the main problem is politics and power in churches and charismatic leaders who try and decide God's will.
As much as I would like to get rid of false doctrine one can get exhausted here fighting everyone who they think isn't right. I try and only go after those who condemn others on the level of their thinking that you will be damned if you reject our beliefs, with those beliefs being either in grave error or unsupported by any author of the bible itself nor the totality of the Bible properly exegeted.

 

[Sophrosyne]

See my last post now.

I did, and you have to realize that many folks who are here in these threads have been in the forum for many years, and some were former members of groups that had them "stuck" in their belief system until they finally saw their way out of them somehow. I've gone after Catholics before but for the most part they don't usually use the tactics that the SDA folks do here, they are more than willing to just plainly say you are wrong and give up and tell you that their church believes something that is not supported by scripture and the debate ends because you both agree that the Bible is both useless to reject their beliefs or be used to support them because both cannot agree to it being the final source of who is "right and wrong". With the SDA they pretend to use the bible as their ultimate source but when they are confronted with scripture that rejects them and are asked to support their beliefs via scripture they play all sorts of games either totally ignoring the Bible where it proves them wrong or twisting it to suit themselves... essentially their source of belief is a dead woman from the 1800s and anything that goes against her "truths" is rejected even if it is in the bible.

 

[Extraneous]

I think the RCC continued on the mess but unless you buy into what they say most people think that the church had issues before the RCC came to power and bore the resemblence of the RCC today. I think even before the orthodox churches split off from them there were problems as I find teachings of the orthodox in error too and instead of them rejecting those errors they kept them just the same. I think that the main problem is politics and power in churches and charismatic leaders who try and decide God's will.
As much as I would like to get rid of false doctrine one can get exhausted here fighting everyone who they think isn't right. I try and only go after those who condemn others on the level of their thinking that you will be damned if you reject our beliefs, with those beliefs being either in grave error or unsupported by any author of the bible itself nor the totality of the Bible properly exegeted.

I think that challenging RC may be the best way to challenge it all in one argument.

 

[Bob S]

Just so there is no misunderstanding, I dont think SDA posters are trying to push anything onto me either, they are only sharing what they believe. Im referring to people who think i cant learn anything without submitting to their denomination. They seem to be closed minded.

When anyone tries to persuade you with scripture, taken out of context, to prove that they have the correct message then you can bet they are trying to gather you into their brand of religion. SDAs have a list of "proof" texts a mile long. They parrot them without ever thinking that they don't mean what they are trying to make you believe. for instance here is one:
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Adventists are adamant that John was really writing "10" commandments, but we know from John's writings in 1Jn 3 that the commands given to Christians are:
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.


24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Trickery is a terrible thing when it involves salvation.

 

[Extraneous]

When anyone tries to persuade you with scripture, taken out of context, to prove that they have the correct message then you can bet they are trying to gather you into their brand of religion. SDAs have a list of "proof" texts a mile long. They parrot them without ever thinking that they don't mean what they are trying to make you believe. for instance here is one:
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Adventists are adamant that John was really writing "10" commandments, but we know from John's writings in 1Jn 3 that the commands given to Christians are:
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.


24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Trickery is a terrible thing when it involves salvation.

I dont believe they mean to be tricky, its just that they havent got sick of all the discord yet, and are still not seeing properly.

 

[Sophrosyne]

When anyone tries to persuade you with scripture, taken out of context, to prove that they have the correct message then you can bet they are trying to gather you into their brand of religion. SDAs have a list of "proof" texts a mile long. They parrot them without ever thinking that they don't mean what they are trying to make you believe. for instance here is one:
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Adventists are adamant that John was really writing "10" commandments, but we know from John's writings in 1Jn 3 that the commands given to Christians are:
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.


24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Trickery is a terrible thing when it involves salvation.

The fact is it is against the rules to promote you must keep the Law to attain salvation which IMO makes things even more "tricky" as they can't outright say it but you can "see" it through what they post it is 100% obvious they do all but outright say it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I dont believe they mean to be tricky, its just that they havent got sick of all the discord yet, and are still not seeing properly.

And why are they not "seeing properly"?

 

[Extraneous]

And why are they not "seeing properly"?

I would assume its because they have not embraced the full reality of Galatians 5, and other scriptures. This is true of RC even more so, i believe.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I think that challenging RC may be the best way to challenge it all in one argument.

You can think that all you want to, but it won't stop some SDA folks here from starting thread after thread promoting their beliefs usually by attacking and/or condemning others who are sometimes wrong, but often right.

 

[Extraneous]

RC is really no different on holy days. They have simply replaced the seventh day with the 6th, added their own doctrine to it, and they added lent, ash Wednesday, good friday, easter, Christmas, and many other such things that actually just put us into bondage rather than freedom. Not only that, but in doing so it causes people to misunderstand true spirituality. RC even has their own law book. Talk about bondage. They also reject the idea of Galatians 5 with their rejection of the holy spirit teacher and simplicity in Christ.

 

[Extraneous]

You can think that all you want to, but it won't stop some SDA folks here from starting thread after thread promoting their beliefs usually by attacking and/or condemning others who are sometimes wrong, but often right.

It wont stop RC from derailing many peoples faith either.

 

[Extraneous]

RC is the one who is tricky. They sit back in silence and allow their doctrine to go unchecked.