Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[Chris Tan]

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God prescribed a law atonement forgiveness all throughout the Old Testament, specifically in Leviticus, for various burnt offerings which were according to the manner of the law, and the priest of Israel were instructed to make an atonement for the people for their sin which they had sinned, and this offering and atonement was the instrument to forgive them. Therefore, in the Old Testament, if Israel fulfilled the royal law according to Leviticus scripture for atonement, then they were forgiven through the law.

James 2:8 points out "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well". James points this out because He knew that if a man fulfilled the royal law according to the scripture, which meant a proper atonement for forgiveness of sins, then that man would be saved, e.g., through that burnt offerings law according to scripture.

All throughout the Old Testament, Israel had an atonement through the law, prescribed in Leviticus, for the forgiveness of sins. Romans 5:13 "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law" makes it clear that when there was no law, sin was not imputed, men simply followed the law of God revealed in nature.

On the other hand, we learn today more deeply about the law, specifically that "by the law is the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:20). In Romans, God is disseminating a deeper truth regarding law atonement, which was that He never planned to use the law as an instrument to teach the knowledge of sin; and that "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight". The reason for this is due to the issue of God's son, who would be the fulfillment of the atonement through the law as prescribed in Leviticus. In Romans 3:19-20 this is initially brought out.

Romans 3:19-20 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin"

However, before you give me your yes or no answer, take note of the following, less you blaspheme the Word of God.

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20)

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them." (Galatians 3:10-12)

"But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." (James 2:9,10)

 

[bibledoctrine]

You have not answered my question.

Once again, I ask based on your assertion.

Was there any soul that was even "saved by the law" since time beginning from Genesis?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

Thank you.

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God's law atonement was the forgiveness all throughout the Old Testament, specifically in Leviticus, for various burnt offerings which were according to the manner of the law, and the priest of Israel were instructed to make an atonement for the people for their sin which they had sinned, and this offering and atonement was the instrument to forgive them. Therefore, in the Old Testament, if Israel fulfilled the royal law according to Leviticus scripture for atonement, then they were forgiven through the law.

Answer: YES (based on evidence in Leviticus)

 

[Albion]

"Still valid"? For what? For salvation?

No, just valid. It's not necessary to add "and if you keep them, X will happen" for them to be valid (which was the question asked here).

 

[Chris Tan]

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God's law atonement was the forgiveness all throughout the Old Testament, specifically in Leviticus, for various burnt offerings which were according to the manner of the law, and the priest of Israel were instructed to make an atonement for the people for their sin which they had sinned, and this offering and atonement was the instrument to forgive them. Therefore, in the Old Testament, if Israel fulfilled the royal law according to Leviticus scripture for atonement, then they were forgiven through the law.

Answer: YES (based on evidence in Leviticus)

Seriously?

"For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins." (Hebrews 10:1-4)

So much for your assertion of, "Therefore, in the Old Testament, if Israel fulfilled the royal law according to Leviticus scripture for atonement, then they were forgiven through the law."

For if the people of Israel could have "fulfilled the royal law" in the OT according to your assertion, then honestly, there was no need for Jesus Christ to come "die for the sins of His people", isn't it? After all, if according to you, the man has the ability to be justified by the "royal law", God could have then left it to the works of the law rather than demonstrate His grace, isn't it?

You see, when you wrote, "YES (based on evidence in Leviticus)", you have failed in giving us biblical names of who actually "fulfilled the royal law according to Leviticus" from the OT. Did even any of the prophets fulfilled such a thing?

Please do not make assertions without biblical facts from the Holy Bible with regards to this issue.

What we are told in Romans 3:20; Galations 3:10-12; James 2:9,10 is explicitly without exceptions from the very day Adam disobeyed God and he brought down mankind. And if Adam who was created sinless and fell into sin, how can we who are born of Adam in sin and trespass even "fulfill the royal law"? Don't you believe that we are born sinners? And if we are born sinners, how can we who are so defiled before God even begin to please Him and be made right with Him?

 

[Chris Tan]

No, just valid. It's not necessary to add "and if you keep them, X will happen" for them to be valid (which was the question asked here).

That's not even an answer. Let me help you.

The only thing that is valid in the ten commandments and the laws of God is simply this:

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:19,20)

So how do you plead before the Almighty God with regards to His laws?

Guilty or not guilty?

 

[stevenfrancis]

Someone was asking about the 10 commandments in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's more than a "quote" It makes up about a 1/4 the of full document. Each commandment is used as a chapter with subsections dealing with that one commandment and all of it's aspects in Christian life.

Not sure if the headings, and links will work from this post, but if not, and if one is interested, you can go to vatican.va, click on the Catechism link, and read whatever you'd like.


THE TEN COMMANDMENTS CHART

SECTION TWO: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

IN BRIEF

CHAPTER ONE: "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOU GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART,
AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND"

ARTICLE 1: THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

I. "You Shall Worship the Lord Your God and Him Only Shall You Serve"
II. "Him Only Shall You Serve"
III. "You Shall Have No Other Gods before Me"
IV. "You Shall Not Make for Yourself a Graven Image"
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 2: THE SECOND COMMANDMENT

I. The Name of the Lord Is Holy
II. Taking the Name of the Lord in Vain
III. The Christian Name
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 3: THE THIRD COMMANDMENT

I. The Sabbath Day
II. The Lord's Day
IN BRIEF

CHAPTER TWO: "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"

ARTICLE 4: THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT

I. The Family in God's Plan
II. The Family and Society
III. The Duties of Family and the Kingdom
IV. The Family and the Kingdom
V. The Authorities in Civil Society
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 5: THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT

I. Respect for Human Life
II. Respect for the Dignity of Persons
III. Safeguarding Peace
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 6: THE SIXTH COMMANDMENT

I. "Male and Female He Created Them . . ."
II. The Vocation to Chastity
III. The Love of Husband and Wife
IV. Offenses against the Dignity of Marriage
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 7: THE SEVENTH COMMANDMENT

I. The Universal Destination and the Private Ownership of Goods
II. Respect for Persons and Their Goods
III. The Social Doctrine of the Church
IV. Economic Activity and Social Justice
V. Justice and Solidarity among Nations
VI. Love for the Poor
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 8: THE EIGHTH COMMANDMENT

I. Living in the Truth
II. To Bear Witness to the Truth
III. Offenses against Truth
IV. Respect for the Truth
V. The Use of the Social Communications Media
VI. Truth, Beauty, and Sacred Art
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 9: THE NINTH COMMANDMENT

I. Purification of the Heart
II. The Battle for Purity
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 10: THE TENTH COMMANDMENT

I. The Disorder of Covetous Desires
II. The Desires of the Spirit
III. Poverty of Heart
IV. "I Want to See God"
IN BRIEF

 

[Albion]

That's not even an answer. Let me help you.

Chris, perhaps I didn't make my point well enough. The question we were asked was whether or not the Commandments are still valid. They are.

You wanted to qualify that answer by bringing up an additional issue, i.e. what keeping them is said by some to produce or result in. Or perhaps it's "What good are they?"

But none of that is the issue here, only the validity or invalidity of them. I cannot think of any church or denomination that says the Ten Commandments are not valid today. That's the answer, and you can see that very few disagree with it.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

You have not answered my question.

Once again, I ask based on your assertion.

Was there any soul that was even "saved by the law" since time beginning from Genesis?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

Thank you.

I'll field this one Chris... no one was ever saved by the Law.

The Law is merely a mechanism to show us our sinful behaviour that we may turn from it. Salvation has always been through repentance and atonement. Blood needs to be shed for the remission of sin... in the OT it was the type of animal sacrifice later to be fulfilled by the antitypical blood of Christ.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Chris, perhaps I didn't make my point well enough. The question we were asked was whether or not the Commandments are still valid. They are.

You wanted to qualify that answer by bringing up an additional issue, i.e. what keeping them is said by some to produce or result in. Or perhaps it's "What good are they?"

But none of that is the issue here, only the validity or invalidity of them. I cannot think of any church or denomination that says the Ten Commandments are not valid today. That's the answer, and you can see that very few disagree with it.

Except for those that say the Law was nailed to cross ie: done away with.

Albion, your a good Anglican, do you guys keep holy the Sabbath as Commanded by God or are you playing semantics?

 

[Chris Tan]

I'll field this one Chris... no one was ever saved by the Law.

The Law is merely a mechanism to show us our sinful behaviour that we may turn from it. Salvation has always been through repentance and atonement. Blood needs to be shed for the remission of sin... in the OT it was the type of animal sacrifice later to be fulfilled by the antitypical blood of Christ.

Amen to that.

But it seems Albion seems to be dancing around my question that simply require a yes or no answer.

 

[Chris Tan]

There's no issue here. Just about every Christian church teaches and believes that the Ten Commandments are still valid.

This was what you said when you replied to BobRyan is his earlier post.

My simple question to you was, what is the Ten Commandments still valid for? Be specific.

By just saying it's "still valid" without being specific makes no sense to those who are new to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, for such a vague remark leads to misunderstandings and worse still, false doctrines.

For example, this is what I mean by, "be specific", there are some teachings that says:

1. one needs to obey the ten commandments in order to be saved.
2. even after being saved, one still has to obey the laws or they will lose your salvation.
3. that the laws were fulfilled by Christ, and only by faith in Him is one saved, for the laws have no more hold on them who believe in Jesus Christ.

Basically, be specific and committed to your statement "that the Ten Commandments are still valid". For if you're not, you're not doing justice to the righteousness of God and open yourself to ridicule with regards to your knowledge of the law.

The Holy Bible or the Word of God leaves the man with no room to form their own assertions outside of what has already been written in the Scriptures. That's why you need to be specific.

 

[Chris Tan]

Someone was asking about the 10 commandments in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's more than a "quote" It makes up about a 1/4 the of full document. Each commandment is used as a chapter with subsections dealing with that one commandment and all of it's aspects in Christian life.

Not sure if the headings, and links will work from this post, but if not, and if one is interested, you can go to vatican.va, click on the Catechism link, and read whatever you'd like.


THE TEN COMMANDMENTS CHART

SECTION TWO: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

IN BRIEF

CHAPTER ONE: "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOU GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART,
AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND"

ARTICLE 1: THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

I. "You Shall Worship the Lord Your God and Him Only Shall You Serve"
II. "Him Only Shall You Serve"
III. "You Shall Have No Other Gods before Me"
IV. "You Shall Not Make for Yourself a Graven Image"
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 2: THE SECOND COMMANDMENT

I. The Name of the Lord Is Holy
II. Taking the Name of the Lord in Vain
III. The Christian Name
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 3: THE THIRD COMMANDMENT

I. The Sabbath Day
II. The Lord's Day
IN BRIEF

CHAPTER TWO: "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"

ARTICLE 4: THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT

I. The Family in God's Plan
II. The Family and Society
III. The Duties of Family and the Kingdom
IV. The Family and the Kingdom
V. The Authorities in Civil Society
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 5: THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT

I. Respect for Human Life
II. Respect for the Dignity of Persons
III. Safeguarding Peace
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 6: THE SIXTH COMMANDMENT

I. "Male and Female He Created Them . . ."
II. The Vocation to Chastity
III. The Love of Husband and Wife
IV. Offenses against the Dignity of Marriage
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 7: THE SEVENTH COMMANDMENT

I. The Universal Destination and the Private Ownership of Goods
II. Respect for Persons and Their Goods
III. The Social Doctrine of the Church
IV. Economic Activity and Social Justice
V. Justice and Solidarity among Nations
VI. Love for the Poor
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 8: THE EIGHTH COMMANDMENT

I. Living in the Truth
II. To Bear Witness to the Truth
III. Offenses against Truth
IV. Respect for the Truth
V. The Use of the Social Communications Media
VI. Truth, Beauty, and Sacred Art
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 9: THE NINTH COMMANDMENT

I. Purification of the Heart
II. The Battle for Purity
IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 10: THE TENTH COMMANDMENT

I. The Disorder of Covetous Desires
II. The Desires of the Spirit
III. Poverty of Heart
IV. "I Want to See God"
IN BRIEF

Why would one need to go to vatican.va when we already have the Holy Bible? Is the instructions written in the Word insufficient that the Vatican need to come out with their own written statements or assertions with regards to the laws of God?

 

[bugkiller]

Seriously?

"For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins." (Hebrews 10:1-4)

So much for your assertion of, "Therefore, in the Old Testament, if Israel fulfilled the royal law according to Leviticus scripture for atonement, then they were forgiven through the law."

For if the people of Israel could have "fulfilled the royal law" in the OT according to your assertion, then honestly, there was no need for Jesus Christ to come "die for the sins of His people", isn't it? After all, if according to you, the man has the ability to be justified by the "royal law", God could have then left it to the works of the law rather than demonstrate His grace, isn't it?

You see, when you wrote, "YES (based on evidence in Leviticus)", you have failed in giving us biblical names of who actually "fulfilled the royal law according to Leviticus" from the OT. Did even any of the prophets fulfilled such a thing?

Please do not make assertions without biblical facts from the Holy Bible with regards to this issue.

What we are told in Romans 3:20; Galations 3:10-12; James 2:9,10 is explicitly without exceptions from the very day Adam disobeyed God and he brought down mankind. And if Adam who was created sinless and fell into sin, how can we who are born of Adam in sin and trespass even "fulfill the royal law"? Don't you believe that we are born sinners? And if we are born sinners, how can we who are so defiled before God even begin to please Him and be made right with Him?

Excellent!! Your opening quote was the first thing that came to my mind as well.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Chris, perhaps I didn't make my point well enough. The question we were asked was whether or not the Commandments are still valid. They are.

You wanted to qualify that answer by bringing up an additional issue, i.e. what keeping them is said by some to produce or result in. Or perhaps it's "What good are they?"

But none of that is the issue here, only the validity or invalidity of them. I cannot think of any church or denomination that says the Ten Commandments are not valid today. That's the answer, and you can see that very few disagree with it.

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; I Tim 1

This says very plainly who the law is for.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I'll field this one Chris... no one was ever saved by the Law.

The Law is merely a mechanism to show us our sinful behaviour that we may turn from it. Salvation has always been through repentance and atonement. Blood needs to be shed for the remission of sin... in the OT it was the type of animal sacrifice later to be fulfilled by the antitypical blood of Christ.

Love it when you say the law is lessened and doesn't demand punishment for violation. Since the law has no force why even bother paying attention to it?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Except for those that say the Law was nailed to cross ie: done away with.

Albion, your a good Anglican, do you guys keep holy the Sabbath as Commanded by God or are you playing semantics?

What does Rom 7:6 mean?

bugkiller

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Why would one need to go to vatican.va when we already have the Holy Bible? Is the instructions written in the Word insufficient that the Vatican need to come out with their own written statements or assertions with regards to the laws of God?

When you don't want to abide by the rules given, make up your own. It's called the Lucifer doctrine...

 

[Chris Tan]

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; I Tim 1

This says very plainly who the law is for.

bugkiller

And I know not of anyone in mankind that's an exception to this statement made by Paul, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners", he too was very specific when he wrote in Romans 3:23, "For there is no difference; FOR ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

The hypocrisy behind recognising the laws of God is not the acknowledgement that God gave man His laws but rather after giving us His Holy laws, do we acknowledge to Him that we have sinned and fallen short of His glory? And that's where the spirit of the Pharisees is still alive and kicking.

 

[bugkiller]

And I know not of anyone in mankind that's an exception to this statement made by Paul, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners", he too was very specific when he wrote in Romans 3:23, "For there is no difference; FOR ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

The hypocrisy behind recognising the laws of God is not the acknowledgement that God gave man His laws but rather after giving us His Holy laws, do we acknowledge to Him that we have sinned and fallen short of His glory? And that's where the spirit of the Pharisees is still alive and kicking.

The Christian is righteous by declaration without the law, Rom 4.

bugkiller

 

[Chris Tan]

The Christian is righteous by declaration without the law, Rom 4.

bugkiller

Yes. Justified by faith.