Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[BobRyan]

So then, does want keep the laws of God to be saved?

Or does one keep the laws of God because he's already saved?

Matt 7 -- how readest thou?

"By their fruits you shall know them"

Does the bad tree produce good fruit to "become a good tree"??

 

[bibledoctrine]

So then, does want keep the laws of God to be saved?

Or does one keep the laws of God because he's already saved?

Today in God's grace we are not saved by the Law - we are saved by faith & trusting in the shed blood of Christ Jesus - God's Law of Moses was to bring Israel to the knowledge of their Messiah - the Law was not the vehicle to save, except a non-Jew who lived & follow it correct. We are only saved by grace today, otherwise grace faith is in vain if we mix it with the Law for salvation.

 

[Chris Tan]

A classic case in point of someone who's a works monger is when they use a verse like Romans 8:8,9 and they highlight the following:

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

and completely disregard the following:

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Seems to me that Christ is the furthest from such a heart.

 

[Chris Tan]

Matt 7 -- how readest thou?

"By their fruits you shall know them"

Does the bad tree produce good fruit to "become a good tree"??

How readest thou?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Question: Have you been created "in Christ Jesus"? If yes, how so?

 

[BobRyan]

Well the Gospel works the same in all ages. "Saved by grace through faith". which is why the NEW Covenant is the "one gospel" and is valid in both NT and OT. As we see in Deut 6:6 the new heart - with the "LAW written on the heart" goes all the way back.

This is why Jesus can say in John 3 - that anyone in Israel that is a teacher of scripture should already know about the Holy Spirit and the New Birth.

 

[BobRyan]

A classic case in point of someone who's a works monger is when they use a verse like Romans 8:8,9 and they highlight the following:

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

As it turns out - scripture is not a "works monger" -- scripture is the "Word of God".

and completely disregard the following:

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

You quoted the same text twice....

Are you a legalist??

When I post a text like this --


Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

And then you post part of that same text with a few different color changes or bold font settings - and then complain that I did not select your same bold font at the exact spot ---- begins to look like legalism.

 

[BobRyan]

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Romans 3:31)

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." (Romans 7:7)

Rom 3:19-21
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Jer 31:31-33 NEW Covenant - LAW written on the heart and mind.
Heb 8:6-10 - NEW Covenant - LAW written on the heart and mind.
1 Cor 7:19 "what MATTERS is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 - "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in JESUS"
Rom 3:31 "Do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God"
Eph 6:2 - the fifth commandment "is the FIRST Commandment WITH A promise" in the still-binding TEN Commandments

 

[BobRyan]

So then -- your thoughts on D.L. Moody's text?

- D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

------------------------------------------

This Sabbath Commandment section of Moody's Ten Commandm[FONT=&quot]ent sermon goes quot]on with more detail. Here is a segment of that same section -- the en[FONT=&quot]ding concluding segment - that might help she[FONT=&quot]d even more light on Moody's Intent - #229 post is on this

 

[Meowzltov]

That is the strategy most often used for the irrefutable texts and evidence that your argument fails to answer. Simply repeat the question and hope for a response that is not quite so irrefutable.

I think we can all see how that strategy works.

Then when the irrefutable response is not found to "vanish" simply because "the objection to it prefers a more refutable one" - we are all supposed to just "not notice"?? The gap in such logic for dealing with those irrefutable posts is more than a little transparent. As it turns out.

Why would the objective unbiased reader ever fall for such methods??

But the POINT is that your response is not irrefutable and that in fact I have refuted it more than once,which is WHY I have a right to expect you to MOVE THE HECK ON.

 

[Chris Tan]

As it turns out - scripture is not a "works monger" -- scripture is the "Word of God".



You quoted the same text twice....

Are you a legalist??

When I post a text like this --


Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

And then you post part of that same text with a few different color changes or bold font settings - and then complain that I did not select your same bold font at the exact spot ---- begins to look like legalism.

Me a legalist? Seriously?

Gee... reading most of your posts here tells me that you are the legalist, for majority if not all of your post seems to direct people to one thing only, that one needs to be performing the law to be saved. There's not even a word with regards to "faith in Jesus Christ" that a sinner is saved. Your intentions and implications with reference to the Scriptures is totally void of GRACE.

You do well to quote the many verses in the Scriptures with regards to the laws of God but what you do not emphasise is "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin." and "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

How does highlighting, "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." being stand accused of being a legalist? My point to you is simply, "are you in Christ" to begin with? "Are you born of the Spirit"? If so, how were you born of the Spirit?

 

[Chris Tan]

Rom 3:19-21
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Jer 31:31-33 NEW Covenant - LAW written on the heart and mind.
Heb 8:6-10 - NEW Covenant - LAW written on the heart and mind.
1 Cor 7:19 "what MATTERS is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 - "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in JESUS"
Rom 3:31 "Do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God"
Eph 6:2 - the fifth commandment "is the FIRST Commandment WITH A promise" in the still-binding TEN Commandments

And there you go again, LAW, LAW, LAW, LAW...... you don't even understand what Jeremiah 31:31-33 is even teaching. Read Ezekiel 36:22-38 and then John 3:1-21. They are all one and the same thing.

Do you even know what it means when God said in Ezekiel 36:26,27, "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."

I rest my case with regards to what is a legalist.

 

[bugkiller]

Until you read the actual Bible -- in Hebrews 8 "IF HE were on EARTH He would not be a priest at all"

The shadow types of animal sacrifices and human priesthood gives way to the heavenly reality of the ONCE FOR ALL sacrifice of Christ and HIS High Priestly ministry in Heb 8.

So then - nos such thing as "if you honor your parents then you must sacrifice animals" -- as we all know.

It seems to me you're simply denying Jesus is a priest and really your High Priest. The earthly priesthood isn't in existence these days.

Your argument here violates you stance on -

Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So what is true?

bugkiller

 

[Albion]

[FONT=&quot]Are God's Ten Commandments still valid ??

That is the primary question to be answered on this section of the board.

And the irrefutable response from scripture is ... "yes".

There's no issue here. Just about every Christian church teaches and believes that the Ten Commandments are still valid.

 

[bugkiller]

TWO gospels (one for OT and one for NT) -- vs ONE GOSPEL.

Gal 1:6-9 -- there is only ONE Gospel.
Gal 3:7 - "the GOSPEL was preached to Abraham"
Heb 4:1 - "WE have had the GOSPEL preached to US just as THEY also".
Matt 17 - MOSES AND Elijah BOTH are WITH CHRIST on the mount of transfiguration.
HEB - the giants of FAITH held up as examples to the NT saints -- are the OT saints.
John 8 "Abraham SAW MY DAY and was glad"
Jer 31:31-33 NEW Covenant - LAW written on the heart and mind.
Heb 8:6-10 - NEW Covenant - LAW written on the heart and mind.
1 Cor 7:19 "what MATTERS is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 - "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in JESUS"
Rom 3:31 "Do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God"
Eph 6:2 - the fifth commandment "is the FIRST Commandment WITH A promise" in the still-binding TEN Commandments

Gal 3 - the LAW is not at all contrary to grace or the Gospels - it is not 'another gospel'.

For all of eternity in the NEW Earth - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH was MADE for mankind"

Matt 5:"19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "

You refuse to identify this one Gospel preached to Abraham.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:19,20)

This is the very purpose why the law was given to Moses at Sinai. To declare to the Jews that they have all sinned against God. The very same law also condemns the whole world outside of Israel then and now.

As for the Christian who are saved by the wonderful grace of God, we are reminded by the apostle Paul, "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." (Romans 10:3,4)

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Romans 3:31)

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." (Romans 7:7)

Bob really likes Christ is the end of the law. really?

bugkiller

 

[Chris Tan]

There's no issue here. Just about every Christian church teaches and believes that the Ten Commandments are still valid.

"Still valid"? For what? For salvation?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Today in God's grace we are not saved by the Law -

No, but we are judged by it... if we are without sin, through the Grace of God, we are not 'under' the Law. However, if we have an unrepented sin against our name in the book, we are judged by that Law that was transgressed.

 

[Chris Tan]

Today in God's grace we are not saved by the Law - we are saved by faith & trusting in the shed blood of Christ Jesus - God's Law of Moses was to bring Israel to the knowledge of their Messiah - the Law was not the vehicle to save, except a non-Jew who lived & follow it correct. We are only saved by grace today, otherwise grace faith is in vain if we mix it with the Law for salvation.

What do you mean by "Today in God's grace we are not saved by the Law"?

Was there anyone that was even "saved by the law" since time beginning from Genesis?

 

[bibledoctrine]

What do you mean by "Today in God's grace we are not saved by the Law"?

Was there anyone that was even "saved by the law" since time beginning from Genesis?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God prescribed a law atonement forgiveness all throughout the Old Testament, specifically in Leviticus, for various burnt offerings which were according to the manner of the law, and the priest of Israel were instructed to make an atonement for the people for their sin which they had sinned, and this offering and atonement was the instrument to forgive them. Therefore, in the Old Testament, if Israel fulfilled the royal law according to Leviticus scripture for atonement, then they were forgiven through the law.

James 2:8 points out "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well". James points this out because He knew that if a man fulfilled the royal law according to the scripture, which meant a proper atonement for forgiveness of sins, then that man would be saved, e.g., through that burnt offerings law according to scripture.

All throughout the Old Testament, Israel had an atonement through the law, prescribed in Leviticus, for the forgiveness of sins. Romans 5:13 "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law" makes it clear that when there was no law, sin was not imputed, men simply followed the law of God revealed in nature.

On the other hand, we learn today more deeply about the law, specifically that "by the law is the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:20). In Romans, God is disseminating a deeper truth regarding law atonement, which was that He never planned to use the law as an instrument to teach the knowledge of sin; and that "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight". The reason for this is due to the issue of God's son, who would be the fulfillment of the atonement through the law as prescribed in Leviticus. In Romans 3:19-20 this is initially brought out.

Romans 3:19-20 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin"

 

[Chris Tan]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God prescribed a law atonement forgiveness all throughout the Old Testament, specifically in Leviticus, for various burnt offerings which were according to the manner of the law, and the priest of Israel were instructed to make an atonement for the people for their sin which they had sinned, and this offering and atonement was the instrument to forgive them. Therefore, in the Old Testament, if Israel fulfilled the royal law according to Leviticus scripture for atonement, then they were forgiven through the law.

James 2:8 points out "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well". James points this out because He knew that if a man fulfilled the royal law according to the scripture, which meant a proper atonement for forgiveness of sins, then that man would be saved, e.g., through that burnt offerings law according to scripture.

All throughout the Old Testament, Israel had an atonement through the law, prescribed in Leviticus, for the forgiveness of sins. Romans 5:13 "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law" makes it clear that when there was no law, sin was not imputed, men simply followed the law of God revealed in nature.

On the other hand, we learn today more deeply about the law, specifically that "by the law is the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:20). In Romans, God is disseminating a deeper truth regarding law atonement, which was that He never planned to use the law as an instrument to teach the knowledge of sin; and that "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight". The reason for this is due to the issue of God's son, who would be the fulfillment of the atonement through the law as prescribed in Leviticus. In Romans 3:19-20 this is initially brought out.

Romans 3:19-20 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin"

You have not answered my question.

Once again, I ask based on your assertion.

Was there any soul that was even "saved by the law" since time beginning from Genesis?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

Thank you.