Evidence from Sola Scriptura - right from the Bible itself

[BobRyan]

Good thing the Catholic Church and Scripture are never in contradiction then. .

That is the beauty of the paradigm of the Catholic Church, the teachings of the Church never contradict, and they are perfectly in line with Scripture. Both Tradition and Scripture make a perfect work of art.

Every time the subject comes up - about using scripture to see what church doctrine/tradition agrees or differs -- who is it that complains??

It looks like you.

It looks like you couldn't find a single link or reference to support your false accusation... again.

 

[MennoSota]

. You know one of the issues you have, and why your arguments fall flat is that you don't have a clue about what I believe, even though you pretend to think so. Honestly I don't expect you to read our Catechism or anything like that, you really don't have to know what our Faith is, but don't pretend you do. You see our leadership doesn't make Doctrine, it never has. In fact the truth to be told our leadership hates new doctrines. We avoid new doctrines as if they were the plague, we call them heresy for a reason. That is why we will never adhere to these new doctrines such as Sola Scriptura or Sola Fide. They have never been taught by the Church and never will. No matter how much your faith traditions twist Scripture to your whims, it will never happen.

My point being is that our leaderships primary function when it comes to doctrine, is to preserve what we have and reject what is new. It is as simple as that. There has never been a pope who has created a new doctrine, and never will be.


Sir, I have no clue what denomination you belong to; but I bet top dollar that it isn't very old, and it should be thanking Gos that the Catholic Church was around to make sure you had a Bible to misinterpret.


Already have, that why I'm no longer Protestant.

God used the early churches to collect and keep His word. He could easily have used monkeys and sea slugs to keep His word for us, but He chose the early churches. There have been some Godly brothers and sisters in both the Roman church and Orthodox. For these handful who obeyed God above papal decree, I am grateful. For the large number who have been been pointed toward hell by false belief that baptism in the church saves, I have great pity. The leaders who teach such lies will be called to account before God for the false teaching. Sadly, the heresies of Rome have been kept along with God's word. Those heresies are easily noted as they run contrary to God's word.
As for denomination, it is irrelevant. The church is made up of those whom God calls and adopts. No ceremonies are needed. No infant baptisms, no following rules made up in Rome. God calls us to the cross where Jesus atonement pays for our pardon. God grants us faith and gives full grace. God and God alone.
My faith is found fully in God's word. It is the same faith that Peter, John, James, Paul and all whom God has adopted have. It is the faith that our Heavenly Father has given.
It sounds like you ran to Rome because you wanted to go back to legalism and works salvation rather than rest in God's grace. Perhaps you could learn from Paul's letter to the Galatians.

 

[Standing Up]

Perhaps, people have explanations, but no where in the OT does it claim that Jesus will be a Nazarene. That passage just doesn't exist.
Because the priestly washing never claimed to be nothing more that a purification ritual in the Temple. John's is a baptism of repentance, and doesn't really claim to be anything more than that; and it was done in a river.

No your point has been lost. I notice you have given up on the others.

No sense in repeating myself. You've yet to find Christ endorsing tradition as a source of doctrine and practice.

On John,
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

How was the preparation done? By water. There are numerous references to baptism (washing) in the OT. See Psalm 51:2, 7, Isaiah 1:16, Jer 4:14. And there's Elisha commanding the washing in the Jordan.

So, it's not like John made it up.

 

[Extraneous]

What does it mean to stand on Gods promises? What is Gods covenant?


1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.


Jeremiah 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’

Mathew 23:8 “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters.[d]
9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. 10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah.

 

[Erose]

Every time the subject comes up - about using scripture to see what church doctrine/tradition agrees or differs -- who is it that complains??



It looks like you couldn't find a single link or reference to support your false accusation... again.

Seriously whose the one who keeps staring these threads so he can complain Bob?

 

[Erose]

It sounds like you ran to Rome because you wanted to go back to legalism and works salvation rather than rest in God's grace. Perhaps you could learn from Paul's letter to the Galatians.

Ok. I'm not quoting on the rest of you post, because quite frankly I already have addressed these points. But concerning this accusation, again it shows your ignorance on the subject. This is the very issue I speak of, you have zero clue what you are arguing against. You've been fed a bunch of lies about my Church, probably by your denomination, which sounds like one those who define themselves by what they think the Catholic Church is, or they are just lying to their congregation.

I have already discovered that the SDA is one of those definitions built upon hatred of the Catholic Church, if you are not SDA then what denomination are you a member of, so I can know another?

If you want to know the truth, read the Council of Trent; or St. Augustine's writings against the Pelagians; or for that matter just ask.

 

[BobRyan]

Good thing the Catholic Church and Scripture are never in contradiction then. .

That is the beauty of the paradigm of the Catholic Church, the teachings of the Church never contradict, and they are perfectly in line with Scripture. Both Tradition and Scripture make a perfect work of art.

Every time the subject comes up - about using scripture to see what church doctrine/tradition agrees or differs -- who is it that complains??

It looks like you.

It looks like you couldn't find a single link or reference to support your false accusation... again.

Seriously whose the one who keeps staring these threads so he can complain Bob?

Still not one example of me "complaining about sola scriptura?" -- how "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.

let me "help you" -- here is a linked quote

Such as the Is 8:20 sola scriptura doctrine
Seen in Mark 7:6-13
Seen in Acts 17:11

...read the texts.

Is 8:20 "unto the Law and the Testimony - if they speak not according to the Word - there is no light them"

Act 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them (by the Apostle Paul) were SO"

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it is shown via "Sola Scriptura" testing that it is traditions and "doctrines of men" that are at odds with scripture.

In this case it is the "one true nation church started by God at Sinai" - - as all agree in Mark 7.

In that post I quote these texts

Is 8:20 "unto the Law and the Testimony - if they speak not according to the Word - there is no light them"

Act 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them (by the Apostle Paul) were SO"

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

And the "mere quote" of the text is what you apparently take as "a complaint about the text"???

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

 

[MennoSota]

Ok. I'm not quoting on the rest of you post, because quite frankly I already have addressed these points. But concerning this accusation, again it shows your ignorance on the subject. This is the very issue I speak of, you have zero clue what you are arguing against. You've been fed a bunch of lies about my Church, probably by your denomination, which sounds like one those who define themselves by what they think the Catholic Church is, or they are just lying to their congregation.

I have already discovered that the SDA is one of those definitions built upon hatred of the Catholic Church, if you are not SDA then what denomination are you a member of, so I can know another?

If you want to know the truth, read the Council of Trent; or St. Augustine's writings against the Pelagians; or for that matter just ask.

The truth is found in the 66 books of the Bible. Sola Scriptura.
The papacy has not been faithful to obeying God and His Holy word. It has created false teachings that find no root in the Bible, yet you cling to them to guide you as though they spoke for God. I'm afraid that you would call the Apostle Peter a heretic when he preached a message that goes against the teachings of Rome. You would call for the Apostle Paul to be burned for his teaching that salvation does not come by baptism, but instead comes when God makes us alive, though we were dead in our trespasses and sins.
Erose, you are free to follow whichever path your heart clings to. You can follow Rome and cling to the papal robes. I cannot follow after men who have so thoroughly abandoned God's word that the path they now travel leads men towards hell rather than heaven. I would that the Roman leadership would repent and return to its roots of following Christ, but sadly they worship their traditions, which are of no value for bringing life to the dead.
You are comfortable in that world of lies mixed with a sprinkling of truth. So be it. May God grant you wisdom to discern the path through the slough in which you walk.

 

[Job8]

If you want to know the truth, read the Council of Trent;...

I have read the proceedings of the Council of Trent, and the canons which go along with them. Essentially Trent is an attack on the true Gospel, and presents another Gospel, in which salvation is dependent upon Sacramentalism. The RCC teaches Sacramentalism, whereas the Bible teaches salvation by grace through faith in the Person and finished work of Christ.

 

[Erose]

No sense in repeating myself. You've yet to find Christ endorsing tradition as a source of doctrine and practice.

On John,
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

How was the preparation done? By water. There are numerous references to baptism (washing) in the OT. See Psalm 51:2, 7, Isaiah 1:16, Jer 4:14. And there's Elisha commanding the washing in the Jordan.

So, it's not like John made it up.

Actually I did, the problem is you have no answer. Until you show the reference to these in the OT, I will just assume you have no answer.

 

[Erose]

I have read the proceedings of the Council of Trent, and the canons which go along with them. Essentially Trent is an attack on the true Gospel, and presents another Gospel, in which salvation is dependent upon Sacramentalism. The RCC teaches Sacramentalism, whereas the Bible teaches salvation by grace through faith in the Person and finished work of Christ.

Job8, both of these are the exact same thing. A Sacrament is a means by which God dispenses His grace through the Person and work of Christ. Baptism ties us to Christ's death and resurrection, the Eucharist ties us to Christ's sacrifice on the cross, Confession and Anointing of the Sick ties us the Christ's mercy and healing, etc.

 

[Erose]

The truth is found in the 66 books of the Bible. Sola Scriptura.

Actually the Christian Bible has more than 66 books, for some reason somewhere along the way, 18th century maybe?, somebody decided to take seven books out of the Protestant prints.

The papacy has not been faithful to obeying God and His Holy word. It has created false teachings that find no root in the Bible, yet you cling to them to guide you as though they spoke for God. I'm afraid that you would call the Apostle Peter a heretic when he preached a message that goes against the teachings of Rome. You would call for the Apostle Paul to be burned for his teaching that salvation does not come by baptism, but instead comes when God makes us alive, though we were dead in our trespasses and sins.

I can't emphasize this enough. THERE HAS BEEN NO POPE IN THE HISTORY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WHO HAS CREATED THEIR OWN DOCTRINE, NOR CHANGED EXISTING DOCTRINE. The pope does not have that power.

Erose, you are free to follow whichever path your heart clings to. You can follow Rome and cling to the papal robes. I cannot follow after men who have so thoroughly abandoned God's word that the path they now travel leads men towards hell rather than heaven. I would that the Roman leadership would repent and return to its roots of following Christ, but sadly they worship their traditions, which are of no value for bringing life to the dead.

You know if you want to live in the delusion of the lies you have been told, go ahead. All I can do is pray that one day at the very least, the veil placed over your eyes by whoever these hateful angry people that placed it there, will fall out of the way, and at the very least you come to see the truth that the Catholic Church is Christian and she follows her Lord, wherever He takes us.

You are comfortable in that world of lies mixed with a sprinkling of truth. So be it. May God grant you wisdom to discern the path through the slough in which you walk.

I'm not the one with that problem here. You know you really need to question an organization where half their doctrine is based upon bashing another group of Christians.

 

[MennoSota]

Actually the Christian Bible has more than 66 books, for some reason somewhere along the way, 18th century maybe?, somebody decided to take seven books out of the Protestant prints.

I can't emphasize this enough. THERE HAS BEEN NO POPE IN THE HISTORY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WHO HAS CREATED THEIR OWN DOCTRINE, NOR CHANGED EXISTING DOCTRINE. The pope does not have that power.

You know if you want to live in the delusion of the lies you have been told, go ahead. All I can do is pray that one day at the very least, the veil placed over your eyes by whoever these hateful angry people that placed it there, will fall out of the way, and at the very least you come to see the truth that the Catholic Church is Christian and she follows her Lord, wherever He takes us.

I'm not the one with that problem here. You know you really need to question an organization where half their doctrine is based upon bashing another group of Christians.

1. The apocryphal writings were added by enforcement of the Roman Emporia despite protest by the council. They were never considered on the same level as the 66, which is why non-Roman churches reject them. Look at their contradictions with God's word and know that they are removed for good reason.
2. No matter how big you make the letters, the Pope has manufactured doctrines from thin air, without any biblical support. Live with it and own it.
3. I don't live with lies I have been told. That's your world. I read the Bible and let the Bible inform my faith. It's a big difference between you and me. There is a small remnant in the Roman Church who are faithful to obeying God over the anti-christ pope. I commend them on their walk. The others I pray that the delusion is removed from their blind eyes.
4. I bash false teachers who preach tradition over God's word. Jesus did the same with the Pharicee's and the Saducee's, of which the Roman leaders can be equated with.
Erose, repent and turn back to God and away from foolish traditions of men.

 

[Erose]

1. The apocryphal writings were added by enforcement of the Roman Emporia despite protest by the council. They were never considered on the same level as the 66, which is why non-Roman churches reject them. Look at their contradictions with God's word and know that they are removed for good reason.

Sorry, no historical evidence that this is true. Do real research. The process by which the canon developed and was established is much more complicated than that. And in the councils and synods that were this was discussed, there was no protest; because the canon was selected because those writings were already accepted for use in the liturgy.

2. No matter how big you make the letters, the Pope has manufactured doctrines from thin air, without any biblical support. Live with it and own it.

Which ones? If I would have to guess, MennoSota, I have a much better understanding of Church history than you do; and you will have to provide evidence of where a Pope manufactured a doctrine from thin air. The issue you are going to have those, is that it hasn't happened.

3. I don't live with lies I have been told. That's your world. I read the Bible and let the Bible inform my faith. It's a big difference between you and me. There is a small remnant in the Roman Church who are faithful to obeying God over the anti-christ pope. I commend them on their walk. The others I pray that the delusion is removed from their blind eyes.

Yeah keep on living your deception.

4. I bash false teachers who preach tradition over God's word. Jesus did the same with the Pharicee's and the Saducee's, of which the Roman leaders can be equated with.

Well for you to bash false teachers, you really need to learn what you are bashing.

Erose, repent and turn back to God and away from foolish traditions of men.

Done that a while back thank you. But I will remain patient with you for a little longer.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The truth is found in the 66 books of the Bible. Sola Scriptura.
The papacy has not been faithful to obeying God and His Holy word. It has created false teachings that find no root in the Bible, yet you cling to them to guide you as though they spoke for God. I'm afraid that you would call the Apostle Peter a heretic when he preached a message that goes against the teachings of Rome. You would call for the Apostle Paul to be burned for his teaching that salvation does not come by baptism, but instead comes when God makes us alive, though we were dead in our trespasses and sins.
Erose, you are free to follow whichever path your heart clings to. You can follow Rome and cling to the papal robes. I cannot follow after men who have so thoroughly abandoned God's word that the path they now travel leads men towards hell rather than heaven. I would that the Roman leadership would repent and return to its roots of following Christ, but sadly they worship their traditions, which are of no value for bringing life to the dead.
You are comfortable in that world of lies mixed with a sprinkling of truth. So be it. May God grant you wisdom to discern the path through the slough in which you walk.

Correction. There are 72 books in the Bible.

 

[Root of Jesse]

1. The apocryphal writings were added by enforcement of the Roman Emporia despite protest by the council. They were never considered on the same level as the 66, which is why non-Roman churches reject them. Look at their contradictions with God's word and know that they are removed for good reason.

Orthodox are non-Roman and do not reject them.

2. No matter how big you make the letters, the Pope has manufactured doctrines from thin air, without any biblical support. Live with it and own it.

No matter how many times you might say it, you saying it doesn't make it true.

3. I don't live with lies I have been told. That's your world. I read the Bible and let the Bible inform my faith. It's a big difference between you and me. There is a small remnant in the Roman Church who are faithful to obeying God over the anti-christ pope. I commend them on their walk. The others I pray that the delusion is removed from their blind eyes.

Obvious to us that you do live with lies you've been told, you just refuse to accept that they're lies. Anti-christ pope is an oxymoron.

4. I bash false teachers who preach tradition over God's word. Jesus did the same with the Pharicee's and the Saducee's, of which the Roman leaders can be equated with.
Erose, repent and turn back to God and away from foolish traditions of men.

Jesus preached God's Word over man-made tradition, such as ritual washing, widening phylacteries and lengthening tassels. We follow Sacred, God-made Tradition.

 

[MennoSota]

Orthodox are non-Roman and do not reject them.
No matter how many times you might say it, you saying it doesn't make it true.
Obvious to us that you do live with lies you've been told, you just refuse to accept that they're lies. Anti-christ pope is an oxymoron.

Jesus preached God's Word over man-made tradition, such as ritual washing, widening phylacteries and lengthening tassels. We follow Sacred, God-made Tradition.

Why do you call the Bible, "lies I've been told"?

I've read the apocryphal books. They are not to be compared with the other books. They teach contrary ideas that conflict with God's character. Do you folks ever use critical thought or do you just believe everything your churches tell you?

It is amazing to me when I see biblical illiteracy clinging to church fathers rather than trusting God's word.

 

[Erose]

Why do you call the Bible, "lies I've been told"?

I've read the apocryphal books. They are not to be compared with the other books. They teach contrary ideas that conflict with God's character. Do you folks ever use critical thought or do you just believe everything your churches tell you?

It is amazing to me when I see biblical illiteracy clinging to church fathers rather than trusting God's word.

What are the contrary ideas that they teach contrary to God's character?

 

[MennoSota]

What are the contrary ideas that they teach contrary to God's character?

Prayer to the saints.
Worship of Mary
Indulgences
Baptism into the church for salvation.
Added "grace points" available from the church declared "saints."
Salvation by good works.
Christ dying repeatedly in the sacrament of communion (Christ died once and for all).
etc, etc, etc...

 

[Root of Jesse]

Why do you call the Bible, "lies I've been told"?

I didn't. I was speaking of you.

I've read the apocryphal books. They are not to be compared with the other books. They teach contrary ideas that conflict with God's character. Do you folks ever use critical thought or do you just believe everything your churches tell you?

I've read apocryphal books, too. I've also read the Deutero-canonical books, which are included in Scripture, and were for nigh on 1800 years.

It is amazing to me when I see biblical illiteracy clinging to church fathers rather than trusting God's word.

Much of what the Church Fathers said is God's Word.