You have consistently made an unsubstantiated claim that church tradition includes the Bible. It is a lie you need to perpetuate in order to maintain Roman church totalitarianism.
God is not a tradition and His word is not subservient or even equal to tradition. His word always measures tradition as beneficial or heretical. .
Hence the example that we have in Mark 7:6-13 where Christ hammers the traditions of church magisterium "sola scriptura".
A demonstrated practice by Christ that is "not supposed to even exist" according to "some" on this thread.
Bob, the Church as an institution didn't exist yet.
The RCC would not evolve into existence for many more centuries after Christ's statement to the church leadership of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai - in Mark 7.
But in Romans 11 that same - single - tree - where both OT and NT saints are grafted in -- is seen again in Rev 12 as the pure woman that gives birth to Christ and then for 1260 years in the dark ages is persecuted by Satan and his agents.
Thus when Christ hammers the leadership, the magisterium of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai "sola scriptura" in Mark 7 -- he shows us "how it is done"!
notice that in Mark 7 the discussion is about worship, church tradition and doctrine.
And Christ said this - about "Sola Scriptura" testing of church tradition and doctrine.
Mark 7:6-13
.
In
Isaiah 8:20 we find this "
to the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them".
There again we have sola scriptura - being taught.
Well thanks for contradicting yourself all in one single post. That made things quite easy.
False factless accusations of that sort are a dime-a-dozen.
next.
The Scribes and Pharisees, would not have been considered the magisterium of the Jewish nation Bob.
until you read the actual Bible where Christ points to them as "The teachers of the law
and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
" Matt 23:2 -
Less false accusation - more Bible facts please.
Actually you have no such thing. I know you want it to be there, but no matter how much you want it to be, it isn't there. Do you not see what Jesus is referring to here? Their tradition, not THE Tradition. THE Jewish traditions, are those handed down from Moses all the way to Jesus' time and beyond.
This is where you shoot yourself in the foot.
Much of Catholic tradition has no such "Moses speaking from God" source to it all. Most of us know that.
Yet we all know that God spoke to Moses - and at least some of what the jews had at the time of Christ came from that infallible source. STILL they had traditions that could be hammered - sola scriptura as we see Christ doing in Mark 7.
The point remains.
He is going after the added requirements above and beyond THE Tradition of the Jews.
Christ said He was going after their tradition and not "requirements beyond tradition" -- read the actual text instead of making stuff up.
Sola Scriptura is a man-made tradition,
No it is not. Read Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For
laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well
ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For
Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13
Making the Word of God of none effect
through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye
it is as simple as that. Then you throw in the fact, that the concept of Sola Scriptura is also in Isaiah 8:20 and has worked at every step you can avoid the mess that Christianity discovered in the dark ages when ruled by the RCC
Actually we have someone greater Bob, we have Jesus Christ and His Apostles. Whether or not you like it, the Catholic Church is the tree that Christ planted and grew.
not according to the bible. Hence this thread on the "sola scriptura" topic.
Ok this shows that you really don't know what Tradition is. The Jewish Sacred Tradition is the whole Old Covenant. All of it handed down to them from Moses and the Prophets.
Not according to Christ in Mark 7. In Mark 7 Christ points to some of their tradition (as they themselves aslo mention in that chapter) that can be found nowhere in the OT text. Much like prayers to the dead, purgatory, indulgences, worship of images, confecting the body soul and divinity of Christ in the mass, Bible burning, Bible banning... (a long list here)
That is Sacred Tradition of the Jews. What Jesus criticized them for was adding additional moral requirements to what was handed down
Kinda like that list just given -- " prayers to the dead, purgatory, indulgences, worship of images, confecting the body soul and divinity of Christ in the mass, Bible burning, Bible banning... (a long list here)"
To some extent I do agree with you - Christ was condemning stuff that they made up - which contradicts the text of the OT (scripture) -- but notice he is doing it "sola scriptura" in Mark 7:6-13.
It just goes to prove my point, Sola Scriptura fails because of the lens of faith tradition.
to the contrary - Mark 7 is a great example of the lense of faith tradition being shattered 'sola scriptura' - by Christ.
The point remains.
