Evidence from Sola Scriptura - right from the Bible itself

[EastCoastRemnant]

What about 1 Cor 10:12?
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[MennoSota]

So, your contention is that Judas was never called/chosen/predestined even though he was an apostle and was the treasurer of the group? Just a placeholder was he, till God could find someone that He chose?

Judah was never an apostle. He was a disciple. Judah was chosen to fulfill the purpose he was created for. He fulfilled scripture. (Read Romans 9 and you will understand that God, in His Sovereignty, creates those who are destined for destruction. You may hate God for His Sovereign choice. I doubt He is bothered by your complaints.)
Sovereign grace seems to be a very difficult concept for those who imagine themselves to be in control, while God acts as their personal genie.

 

[MennoSota]

What about 1 Cor 10:12?
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

What about it? The context has nothing to do with salvation and everything to do with avoiding sin.

 

[Erose]

It seems as though you are leaning on two verses, under the Mosaic Covenant, for your false teaching of free will regarding God's adoption of His children. Those two verses in Ezekiel do not teach loss of salvation. They do present those whom God had never elected in the first place, however. Justification by works is a false holiness that is rejected by God.

Actually there are two whole chapters, not just two verses, in Ezekiel that speak against this false doctrine that you hold to. Chapters 18 and 33. Look, Scripture never in any place whatsoever refers to us being just automatons. No where. God has given man free will to either accept His call or reject it. If He didn't give us this give of choice, then you are left with us being nothing but automatons, which by the way cannot possibly be children. Are you an automaton?

God tells us that the elect will never be pulled out of His protective hands. It's not about us, Erose. Why are you preaching works salvation?

Actually St. Paul said God will allow nothing to pull us away from Him. That list is missing one very important item. Ourselves.

So, you follow God and reject papal decries that clearly go against God's word. Correct? That will be a good start...unless you are claiming that the Pope is God, which is heresy.

I follow God, and you do not understand what a papal decree is, because you do not have one iota of a clue what you are talking about.

Obeying an ungodly decree is sin, Erose, which is why obeying the false teachings of the Roman church is sin. The first is the false teaching that infant baptism in the church saves a person from hell. Not one verse can you find in the Bible regarding such a fib.

I agree obeying an ungodly decree is a sin, so why do you do so? OSAS is one of the devil's greatest victory. How many Christians have fallen because of that false unbiblical doctrine?

 

[Erose]

What about it? The context has nothing to do with salvation and everything to do with avoiding sin.

Your right everything to do with avoiding sin. What does sin do? What does St. Paul teach us about sin? He tells us that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Gal 5:21.

 

[MennoSota]

Your rig everything to do with avoiding sin. What does sin do? What does St. Paul teach us about sin? He tells us that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Gal 5:21.

Would you care to exegete the deeds of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit and show us how this passage teaches about God's work of adoption and redemption?
How might I be "rigging" the Bible to avoid the truth that all have sinned and fall short (miss the mark) of the glory of God? How do I rig it the Bible when it says that their are none who are righteous, not even one? How do I rig the Bible to teach that infant baptism in the Roman church saves people? Oh, that's right. I don't teach that heresy, you do. You pull something out of thin air and claim that God teaches it because the Pope and his cronies teach it. How dare anyone question the Pope!?
Give it a rest, Erose. Get back to me when you want to honor God's word over and above your denomination.

 

[MennoSota]

Actually there are two whole chapters, not just two verses, in Ezekiel that speak against this false doctrine that you hold to. Chapters 18 and 33. Look, Scripture never in any place whatsoever refers to us being just automatons. No where. God has given man free will to either accept His call or reject it. If He didn't give us this give of choice, then you are left with us being nothing but automatons, which by the way cannot possibly be children. Are you an automaton?


Actually St. Paul said God will allow nothing to pull us away from Him. That list is missing one very important item. Ourselves.


I follow God, and you do not understand what a papal decree is, because you do not have one iota of a clue what you are talking about.

I agree obeying an ungodly decree is a sin, so why do you do so? OSAS is one of the devil's greatest victory. How many Christians have fallen because of that false unbiblical doctrine?

Erose, the context in Ezekiel is in regard to self-righteousness found in the Jewish exiles and the leaders in Jerusalem. If those are the only two verses you have, then your argument hangs precariously off the cliff as being obsurd.
God tells us exactly what He has done in Ephesians 1and 2. How can someone who is dead in trespasses and sins make himself alive? Answer: We can't. Ephesians 2:4 "But God made us alive..." The teaching of God's choice starts in Genesis 1 and ends at the last verse in Revelation. It is a consistent message throughout the Bible and yet you desperately cling to a couple verses in Ezekiel for you entire thesis.
I understand that a papal decree is no better than a decree from Donald Trump if it isn't 100% in alignment with the Bible. Newsflash, the Pope presents many false teachings in his decrees. Start using your own critical thought instead of following the Pope like a lemming. He makes mistakes. He like you and me. He's like Joel Osteen, a confidence man.
I follow the Bible. God tells us that He predestined his children to be adopted and redeemed. He tells us that He will not lose even one whom the Father has given him.
Where does it say that God is on the shelf and we choose Him as though he were a commodity to be purchased? Even the verses in Ezekiel don't teach free will. You can't find it anywhere in the Bible. It's a man-made teaching by people who demand to be in control and tell God to be their genie that they can make wishes to. You have a little god if He is not 100% Sovereign over the affairs of men including your own adoption into His family.

 

[Erose]

Would you care to exegete the deeds of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit and show us how this passage teaches about God's work of adoption and redemption?

Why it doesn't say anything about adoption or redemption. It speaks about who will and will not inherit eternal life. Different subject altogether.

How might I be "rigging" the Bible to avoid the truth that all have sinned and fall short (miss the mark) of the glory of God? How do I rig it the Bible when it says that their are none who are righteous, not even one? How do I rig the Bible to teach that infant baptism in the Roman church saves people? Oh, that's right. I don't teach that heresy, you do. You pull something out of thin air and claim that God teaches it because the Pope and his cronies teach it. How dare anyone question the Pope!?

Actually I was agreeing with you. I meant to use the word "right" not "rig". Got to love iPad keyboards.

Give it a rest, Erose. Get back to me when you want to honor God's word over and above your denomination.

I tell you what I'll rest, if you promise me while I'm resting that you spend a little time studying up on this subject so that you will be able to back your arguments up with actual knowledge instead of regurgitating the lies that you have read on Catholic hate sites.

Seriously why would someone spend so much time being deceived, when if they really want to know the truth, it is out there. Just Google the Catechism of the Catholic Church online and you will actually have a source that speaks of what we actually believe. We really don't have anything to hide quite frankly. So do yourself a favor and stop allowing yourself to be deceived.

 

[MennoSota]

Why it doesn't say anything about adoption or redemption. It speaks about who will and will not inherit eternal life. Different subject altogether.


Actually I was agreeing with you. I meant to use the word "right" not "rig". Got to love iPad keyboards.

I tell you what I'll rest, if you promise me while I'm resting that you spend a little time studying up on this subject so that you will be able to back your arguments up with actual knowledge instead of regurgitating the lies that you have read on Catholic hate sites.

Seriously why would someone spend so much time being deceived, when if they really want to know the truth, it is out there. Just Google the Catechism of the Catholic Church online and you will actually have a source that speaks of what we actually believe. We really don't have anything to hide quite frankly. So do yourself a favor and stop allowing yourself to be deceived.

Ephesians 1 absolutely talks about adoption for those whom God has chosen. Read it.

Erose, I don't care about the edicts of church clergy. I care about God's word. There is ZERO information about infant baptism, let alone that infant baptism into the church saves people from their sins. You just can't find it. The RC is conjuring teachings from out of thin air.

 

[Erose]

Ephesians 1 absolutely talks about adoption for those whom God has chosen. Read it.

We were speaking of a specific passage in Gal 5, which doesn't speak of adoption; but rather who will and will not enter the Kingdom. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here...

Erose, I don't care about the edicts of church clergy.

ok

I care about God's word.

Actually all you care about is your interpretation of God's Word. Not the Word itself.

There is ZERO information about infant baptism, let alone that infant baptism into the church saves people from their sins. You just can't find it. The RC is conjuring teachings from out of thin air.

When did this come part of the discussion here. Stop trying to derail the thread and actually try to come up with a coherent argument, but that would require you to know the subject matter.

 

[MennoSota]

We were speaking of a specific passage in Gal 5, which doesn't speak of adoption; but rather who will and will not enter the Kingdom. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here...

ok

Actually all you care about is your interpretation of God's Word. Not the Word itself.

When did this come part of the discussion here. Stop trying to derail the thread and actually try to come up with a coherent argument, but that would require you to know the subject matter.

Galatians outlines that we all are kept out of the Kingdom because our flesh is sinfilled. There is no hope of salvation except through Jesus atoning sacrifice provided to his...adopted children (Ephesians 1). Galatians 5 is not a salvation passage.

I care that God's word always trumps human traditions. God spoke. He knows what His correct interpretation is. Newsflash...it's not always the Rc interpretation that is correct. Infant baptism is a prime example.

Sola Scriptura, Erose. Try it sometime. Be like the Berean believers rather than the Laodacians.

 

[Erose]

Galatians outlines that we all are kept out of the Kingdom because our flesh is sinfilled. There is no hope of salvation except through Jesus atoning sacrifice provided to his...adopted children (Ephesians 1). Galatians 5 is not a salvation passage.

Galatians 5 tells us who is and is not saved, so yes it speaks of salvation. This idea that our flesh is sinfilled is a man-made concept that isn't taught in Scripture. In fact the term sinfilled is not found anywhere in Scripture.

I care that God's word always trumps human traditions. God spoke. He knows what His correct interpretation is.

You know what I agree with these two statements, the problem is that you keep adding to Gods Word what you want it to say. S

Sola Scriptura, Erose. Try it sometime. Be like the Berean believers rather than the Laodacians.

what does this even mean? I question whether or not you even understand what Sola Scriptura really means after a strange statement look the above.

 

[MennoSota]

Galatians 5 tells us who is and is not saved, so yes it speaks of salvation. This idea that our flesh is sinfilled is a man-made concept that isn't taught in Scripture. In fact the term sinfilled is not found anywhere in Scripture.

You know what I agree with these two statements, the problem is that you keep adding to Gods Word what you want it to say. S

what does this even mean? I question whether or not you even understand what Sola Scriptura really means after a strange statement look the above.

You are pretzling, Erose.
Galatians 5, the section you quoted, talks about the actions of the flesh in comparison to the Fruit of the Spirit. Even in that passage we see that humans are wicked while the Spirit of God produces acts of goodness. The passage has nothing to do with attaining salvation. Literally nothing. You are desperately clinging to an idea (free will) that is never taught in the Bible. Not one time do you find free will talked about in the Bible. You are making things up and looking for verses to prove your fantasy.
I dare you to read Ephesians 1 and 2 without following papal decree like a lemming. The plain sense is right in front of your nose...and you want nothing to do with it.

 

[Erose]

You are pretzling, Erose.
Galatians 5, the section you quoted, talks about the actions of the flesh in comparison to the Fruit of the Spirit. Even in that passage we see that humans are wicked while the Spirit of God produces acts of goodness. The passage has nothing to do with attaining salvation. Literally nothing. You are desperately clinging to an idea (free will) that is never taught in the Bible. Not one time do you find free will talked about in the Bible. You are making things up and looking for verses to prove your fantasy.
I dare you to read Ephesians 1 and 2 without following papal decree like a lemming. The plain sense is right in front of your nose...and you want nothing to do with it.

Gal 5: [16]I say then, walk in the spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. [17] For the flesh lusteth against the spirit: and the spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary one to another: so that you do not the things that you would. [18] But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, [20] Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, [21] Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, [23] Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. Against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ' s, have crucified their flesh, with the vices and concupiscences. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

I'm not sure how much more St. Paul can be straight forward. Look if you want to believe you can go through life sinning and living a life of sin, believing that your saved just because you said a sinner's prayer; then you better have a very good answer to God, when He asks you why.

If you want to keep believing that you are nothing more than an automaton, and that you will end up wherever God determines that you end up no matter what you do, then my question is this? Why do you care? Why do you care what I believe or what you believe? It really, in your worldview, doesn't make a hill of beans anyway, right? So why care? If I don't have free will, then why are you asking me, no demanding, that I turn away from my faith? To ask me to make a decision already denotes that you believe in free will. It requires free will to make a decision does it not? So why do you live in this fantasy? Does it make you feel better to live with the facade that you don't make your own decisions? Does it make you feel better to believe that you can keep on doing whatever sins that you are doing, and it doesn't matter?

This worldview that you are proposing is scary quite frankly, for Christians to just go on disobeying God, not even trying to be Christlike, not trying to be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect. Thank God Almighty that the far majority of Christians don't believe what you believe, and that the far majority of Christians, strive daily with God's grace to emulate our Savior, and when they fall, ask God to lift them back up.

I'm sorry sir, I will not go down that path that you pave; and may God Almighty give me the grace to never consider such an path.

 

[MennoSota]

Gal 5: [16]I say then, walk in the spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. [17] For the flesh lusteth against the spirit: and the spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary one to another: so that you do not the things that you would. [18] But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, [20] Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, [21] Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, [23] Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. Against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ' s, have crucified their flesh, with the vices and concupiscences. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

I'm not sure how much more St. Paul can be straight forward. Look if you want to believe you can go through life sinning and living a life of sin, believing that your saved just because you said a sinner's prayer; then you better have a very good answer to God, when He asks you why.

If you want to keep believing that you are nothing more than an automaton, and that you will end up wherever God determines that you end up no matter what you do, then my question is this? Why do you care? Why do you care what I believe or what you believe? It really, in your worldview, doesn't make a hill of beans anyway, right? So why care? If I don't have free will, then why are you asking me, no demanding, that I turn away from my faith? To ask me to make a decision already denotes that you believe in free will. It requires free will to make a decision does it not? So why do you live in this fantasy? Does it make you feel better to live with the facade that you don't make your own decisions? Does it make you feel better to believe that you can keep on doing whatever sins that you are doing, and it doesn't matter?

This worldview that you are proposing is scary quite frankly, for Christians to just go on disobeying God, not even trying to be Christlike, not trying to be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect. Thank God Almighty that the far majority of Christians don't believe what you believe, and that the far majority of Christians, strive daily with God's grace to emulate our Savior, and when they fall, ask God to lift them back up.

I'm sorry sir, I will not go down that path that you pave; and may God Almighty give me the grace to never consider such an path.

Where does the Bible teach that we should sin so that grace would abound? It doesn't. Read Romans 6 for your answer.

You seem to teach works salvation, which is what Galatians warns us not to believe.

Erose, those whom God has chosen will not live according to the works of the flesh...because...the Fruit if the Spirit is active in their lives.

Why are you desperate to get to heaven by good works and infant baptism? Neither are taught in the Bible, yet you push it as though it were true.
Why are you set on being the king of your life while only giving God the role of damning people who act according to their flesh. Here's a truth; no human can have the fruit of the Spirit if God doesn't choose to give them the fruit. The unregenerate can only imitate God's fruit, but that imitation doesn't save them. There will be large numbers of people in hell who imitated God's fruit, but never were chosen by God.
Salvation is not by works, but by God's grace and by His grace alone. There is nothing in us whereby we can pat ourselves on the back for being good and choosing God. Given our own choice, we would run from God, just like Adam and Eve. Our sin would make us cower and hide. It takes God's call to bring us to Him.
The message of grace runs from Genesis to Revelation. Why do you want to kill grace and make your salvation be by your own merit? You try that and you will miss the mark.

I share the good news of God's grace and mercy, not because of you, but because God commands me to do so. It is an act of obedience, out of love, because He first loved me.
Only God knows whom He will save. We walk in obedience, not to become saved, but because God loved us and gave Himself for us.

 

[Erose]

Where does the Bible teach that we should sin so that grace would abound? It doesn't. Read Romans 6 for your answer.

You seem to teach works salvation, which is what Galatians warns us not to believe.

Erose, those whom God has chosen will not live according to the works of the flesh...because...the Fruit if the Spirit is active in their lives.

Why are you desperate to get to heaven by good works and infant baptism? Neither are taught in the Bible, yet you push it as though it were true.
Why are you set on being the king of your life while only giving God the role of damning people who act according to their flesh. Here's a truth; no human can have the fruit of the Spirit if God doesn't choose to give them the fruit. The unregenerate can only imitate God's fruit, but that imitation doesn't save them. There will be large numbers of people in hell who imitated God's fruit, but never were chosen by God.
Salvation is not by works, but by God's grace and by His grace alone. There is nothing in us whereby we can pat ourselves on the back for being good and choosing God. Given our own choice, we would run from God, just like Adam and Eve. Our sin would make us cower and hide. It takes God's call to bring us to Him.
The message of grace runs from Genesis to Revelation. Why do you want to kill grace and make your salvation be by your own merit? You try that and you will miss the mark.

I share the good news of God's grace and mercy, not because of you, but because God commands me to do so. It is an act of obedience, out of love, because He first loved me.
Only God knows whom He will save. We walk in obedience, not to become saved, but because God loved us and gave Himself for us.

And here we go again. Look, it has been fun, but if you are going to keep being disingenuous, I think it is time for me to do what Jesus told us to do, kick the dust off my feet and move on.

 

[MennoSota]

And here we go again. Look, it has been fun, but if you are going to keep being disingenuous, I think it is time for me to do what Jesus told us to do, kick the dust off my feet and move on.

You are ignoring the Bible in order to hold on to non-biblical teaching. I have shared passages, not just one verse, yet you just ignore these passages and say I'm disingenuous. Tell me what you read in Ephesians 1. Do you read about free will? Tell me who makes people alive in Ephesians 2. Let God's word speak for itself without having your papal colored glasses on. Just sit down, no bias, and read. The Bible is rich and sharper than a two-edged sword. It doesn't need the pope.
With your current belief in works salvation, it's not me you're running from.

 

[FredVB]

We are not automatons. Christ alone, with his work, provides salvation to us with his righteousness, according to our faith, with this and our growth we would be enabled to godly works.

 

[Root of Jesse]

You are ignoring the Bible in order to hold on to non-biblical teaching. I have shared passages, not just one verse, yet you just ignore these passages and say I'm disingenuous. Tell me what you read in Ephesians 1. Do you read about free will? Tell me who makes people alive in Ephesians 2. Let God's word speak for itself without having your papal colored glasses on. Just sit down, no bias, and read. The Bible is rich and sharper than a two-edged sword. It doesn't need the pope.
With your current belief in works salvation, it's not me you're running from.

We don't believe in works salvation, and we don't ignore the Bible, though we do have other sources. I wonder if you believe that God created Adam and Eve for the purpose of instituting Original Sin? No, he loved them so much he gave them free will, and they shunned his love by ignoring His wishes.

 

[MennoSota]

We don't believe in works salvation, and we don't ignore the Bible, though we do have other sources. I wonder if you believe that God created Adam and Eve for the purpose of instituting Original Sin? No, he loved them so much he gave them free will, and they shunned his love by ignoring His wishes.

God knew Adam and Eve were going to introduce sin to the world. He knew that all creation would be effected. He knew that he would graciously choose redemption by condescending to earth and ransom in those whom he chose.
God knew...and yet he still created. This is a mystery that God chose the path which directs some to hell and some to heaven. Love God or hate God, he is Sovereign and we...we are mere humans.