Why do you believe in the trinity when God and his word is simple

[Der Alte]

Klutedavid...Show me where adonai is used. The word used is adoni. Which is used of angels or of a human. If david believed in a trinity and meant 2 Gods he wouldve used the same word or used adonai not adoni. I can prove that it is not adonai here....https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H113&t=KJV it means lord or master but definitely not God the father.

Your link does not support your argument. In the original Hebrew the word was written אדני. Your link shows that the one word אדני/adoni can refer to God, lord, master, husband.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Your link does not support your argument. In the original Hebrew the word was written אדני. Your link shows that the one word אדני/adoni can refer to God, lord, master, husband.

Considering you have master/husband in there with god, its more than likely that if it was god, it was god with a little g. Which includes you and me and jesus but not the Father with a big G. There simply was no reason to use adoni if he meant god the father when he used yehovah 2 words earlier.

 

[Thursday]

Anything that is as convoluted as the trinity can't be from God and can't be true. If you have to break out a calculator or it takes a very long time to explain something in the bible it is not from god and in the case of the trinity not true. I of course was raised to believe in the trinity but instead of rejecting god and becoming an atheist because the trinity didn't make sense I did my research.

There is a website http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/articles/About.html

That pretty much sums up most peoples awakening from the lie of the trinity and I encourage anyone who wants to know the truth to read at least that page. The main problem with believing jesus is god is idolatry. Sin. An unnecessary one at that. Satan does all he can to thwart gods word and rebel against god and does all he can to lead people to sin even accidentally like in this case. Satanists main way of deception is half truths. Not to say those who believe in the trinity are satanists but they are deceived in the same way that luciferians deceive people. Give them a little bit of the truth with the rest a bold face lie to keep them from their full rewards and power in this life and the next.

I love jesus with all my heart but the fact is he is not god and never was. He didn't create the universe or humans. Anything miraculous he did was through god not because he was god. The lie has spread like a highly contagious virus and now 90% of christians believe it and commit an unnecessary sin. God bless.

God is complicated. The bible says that Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God.

Not simple.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Excuse me for asking, but how does that become an honest exploration? You cannot draw a conclusion out of something that is not expressed. You cannot expect me to believe your debate without the facts. There is not one proof offered in your conclusion, only a statement.

If you honestly seek the truth, then read the whole link. It was too long to post everything.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

God is complicated. The bible says that Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God.

Not simple.

Maybe your bible says that but the original text do not. logos doesn't mean jesus christ. So that leaves us to figure out what they meant and I made it clear what they meant. The word is not a person and I already explained there is no reason to read into it more than it says. The word is the good news. That simple.

 

[Thursday]

Maybe your bible says that but the original text do not. logos doesn't mean jesus christ. So that leaves us to figure out what they meant and I made it clear what they meant. The word is not a person and I already explained there is no reason to read into it more than it says. The word is the good news. That simple.

Jesus is the Word. He was with the Father when they created the universe.

Gen 1
26Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky,

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Since Jesus is God, understanding John 2:19 literally does not contradict any other verse. There is one other verse which shows that Jesus raised Himself.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. ​

The last part he makes it clear how he is able to do it. He makes it clear where the power comes from. Not from God the son, but from the father. You could do it too if God gave you the ability, but because god gave you the ability doesn't make you equal with God.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

It is far from clear, I need more explanation of what you intend to show with Heb 4:3. I must beg your pardon Jesus did not say "the finished works of God before the foundation of the world." Why do you reject the very words of Jesus for speculation not stated anywhere? Jesus was not speaking in parables to His disciples He was praying directly to the Father, He had no need to use figurative language, and He said what He meant and meant what He said.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.​

Let me try to explain. Jesus is asking God to give him what was his since the beginning. He is asking to receive what is his. He didn't have his glory yet, he wasn't yet glorified. Like you and I aren't glorified yet. But he knew his hour of glory was coming so he asks for it. The heb 4:3 quote is another example of the same thing Jesus is talking about. That god has predestined certain people to receive certain things at certain times. The specific thing that God had predestined in this specific situation was Jesus glory. A mighty glory at that.

 

[Der Alte]

Let me try to explain. Jesus is asking God to give him what was his since the beginning. He is asking to receive what is his. He didn't have his glory yet, he wasn't yet glorified. Like you and I aren't glorified yet. But he knew his hour of glory was coming so he asks for it. The heb 4:3 quote is another example of the same thing Jesus is talking about. That god has predestined certain people to receive certain things at certain times. The specific thing that God had predestined in this specific situation was Jesus glory. A mighty glory at that.

You still don't get it. There was no need or reason for Jesus to be speaking in figurative language. It would serve no purpose. Jesus was praying to God not teaching His disciples, scribes, Pharisees, etc..What possible reason could Jesus have for using figurative language in a prayer to the Father? You have now changed your argument, before you said Jesus was "talking about the finished works of God before the foundation of the world." Now you say Jesus was "asking God to give him what was his since the beginning." You say He didn't have His glory yet, read the scripture, "glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created." Why do you insist on trying to force this verse into being something figurative? If Jesus did not literally, actually have glory with the Father before the world was then Jesus was lying.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. ​

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

You still don't get it. There was no need or reason for Jesus to be speaking in figurative language. It would serve no purpose. Jesus was praying to God not teaching His disciples, scribes, Pharisees, etc..What possible reason could Jesus have for using figurative language in a prayer to the Father? You have now changed your argument, before you said Jesus was "talking about the finished works of God before the foundation of the world." Now you say Jesus was "asking God to give him what was his since the beginning." You say He didn't have His glory yet, read the scripture, "glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created." Why do you insist on trying to force this verse into being something figurative? If Jesus did not literally, actually have glory with the Father before the world was then Jesus was lying.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. ​

My argument remains the same in both statements you quoted. Jesus is asking for a fulfillment of what was his. Hes basically just stating the obvious. My question to you is was jesus glorified before the resurrection or after? if before then why would he ask for something he already had. If after then why can't you see that he is talking about something he never had yet. Something that didn't happen yet.

edit: ok so you seem to think he did have his glory. So you think he is asking for something he already had which is absurd. If he already had his glory before the world then he need not ask for something he already has. This is why its clear he wasn't glorified yet. His glory came when he rose from the dead. That is when he received what he had with the father before the world. You and I both have things from the father that was before the world. It doesn't mean that we existed or had it before the world actually began. Don't be confused by the statement before the world. When I told you what that means from hebrews 4:3

 

[Der Alte]

The last part he makes it clear how he is able to do it. He makes it clear where the power comes from. Not from God the son, but from the father. You could do it too if God gave you the ability, but because god gave you the ability doesn't make you equal with God.

You continually insist on making virtually everything Jesus said into a parable, metaphor, etc. If Jesus had intended to say "God gave me the power to take my life again" that is what He would have said. Instead He said "I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." A first century Greek speaking Christian reading or hearing this verse for the first time would not have understood it as "God gave me the power."

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

You continually insist on making virtually everything Jesus said into a parable, metaphor, etc. If Jesus had intended to say "God gave me the power to take my life again" that is what He would have said. Instead He said "I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." A first century Greek speaking Christian reading or hearing this verse for the first time would not have understood it as "God gave me the power."

There are many times in the bible where jesus is speaking the words god would say. Prophets in the old testament would speak the words of god from first person. So you have to figure out which jesus is doing and when. Why did he say this commandment have I received of my father? what does that mean to you? If you read one word or verse from the bible without considering the context of the whole scope of the entire word of god, you will run into error like you have here with john 10:8

 

[Der Alte]

My argument remains the same in both statements you quoted. Jesus is asking for a fulfillment of what was his. Hes basically just stating the obvious. My question to you is was jesus glorified before the resurrection or after? if before then why would he ask for something he already had. If after then why can't you see that he is talking about something he never had yet. Something that didn't happen yet.

Why do you insist on making the same argument over and over while ignoring the words that Jesus said? Perhaps you can tell me exactly what about this verse you do not understand. "O Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was." Was Jesus lying to God saying He had glory with the Father before the world was? What possible reason would Jesus have for saying this if He meant something else entirely?

 

[Tiny Bible]

I love jesus with all my heart but the fact is he is not god and never was....

You haven't read the New Testament or you'd not say that.


In the Old Testament it is written that our God is one.
In the New Testament Jesus spoke of his being God in John 14:6-9 .

They are not three distinct separate spirits. God is a spirit , per the scriptures. Jesus was God incarnate, per the scriptures, and the Holy Spirit is God because he is holy and he said he is a spirit.
All three are the one.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Why do you insist on making the same argument over and over while ignoring the words that Jesus said? Perhaps you can tell me exactly what about this verse you do not understand. "O Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was." Was Jesus lying to God saying He had glory with the Father before the world was? What possible reason would Jesus have for saying this if He meant something else entirely?

Jesus isn't lying when he asks for something that he knew his father had for him.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

You haven't read the New Testament or you'd not say that.


In the Old Testament it is written that our God is one.
In the New Testament Jesus spoke of his being God in John 14:6-9 .

They are not three distinct separate spirits. God is a spirit , per the scriptures. Jesus was God incarnate, per the scriptures, and the Holy Spirit is God because he is holy and he said he is a spirit.
All three are the one.

When jesus says if you have seen me you have seen the father is clearly talking about the works and word jesus is preaching. If we have seen jesus then we have seen the father because jesus did the fathers will entirely. He isn't saying he is the father or is God. He is just letting them know that they have seen God because they have seen the works and heard the word of god.

 

[Der Alte]

Considering you have master/husband in there with god, its more than likely that if it was god, it was god with a little g. Which includes you and me and jesus but not the Father with a big G. There simply was no reason to use adoni if he meant god the father when he used yehovah 2 words earlier.

I don't have anything, anywhere I was quoting what your link said. You said the word at the link "means lord or master but definitely not God the father." Here is a direct quote from that link, all definitions for the same word, "Lord, master, superintendent of household, of affairs, master, king, the Lord God, Lord of the whole earth." Your link.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H113&t=KJV

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

I don't have anything, anywhere I was quoting what your link said. You said the word at the link "means lord or master but definitely not God the father." Here is a direct quote from that link, all definitions for the same word, "Lord, master, superintendent of household, of affairs, master, king, the Lord God, Lord of the whole earth." Your link.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H113&t=KJV

Why didn't he just use yehovah if that is what he meant? He certainly didn't use adonai which he also couldve used to end this trinitarian discussion. It is clear he meant something else besides the father. I hope that trinitarian stronghold is loosening up a little bit. Because being set free from it brings about a certain amount of clarity of the word of God you can't get while believing in the 3 gods in one fallacy.

 

[Der Alte]

Jesus isn't lying when he asks for something that he knew his father had for him.

You are twisting scripture. Was Jesus lying when He said "glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world existed."

 

[Tiny Bible]

This thread should be consolidated to the other thread that speaks to the same topic.

When jesus says if you have seen me you have seen the father is clearly talking about the works and word jesus is preaching. If we have seen jesus then we have seen the father because jesus did the fathers will entirely. He isn't saying he is the father or is God. He is just letting them know that they have seen God because they have seen the works and heard the word of god.

You've made up your mind and won't be dissuaded. That's your prerogative. However, you're wrong when you think Jesus was not God.
Furthermore, lower case in writing Jesus name is disrespectful. As is the lower case you use to write the word, Christianity.

I'd suggest you read the New Testament.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."


Just two more examples in scripture that Jesus was divine, that Jesus was God in flesh.