Should we take "In God We Trust" off the dollar bill?

[Dave Ellis]

Sorry but that is NOT an establishment of Religion. That covers even those who do not believe or those who don't claim to believe. Those who live for themselves, are living for god....the god of this world aka themselves.

So you're trying to argue that those who don't believe actually do believe?

If you can't see how repugnant that is, it's no wonder you can't see why atheists like myself would get upset about the government trying to tell me what I believe as well.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Babies have rights. A fetus does not. It is not legally considered a person so it had no rights of the mother who is a legal person with rights and protections. If you want to change that, you must change the definition of person to include a fetus.

It's also worth noting that if the fetus was given the same rights as a fully grown person, abortion would still be perfectly legal.

I do not have the right to sustain my life by using someone else's body. If I am doing that and someone wants to cut me off for whatever reason, they have every right to, and I will die.

 

[Dave Ellis]

I have already explained how it applies to all. So basically, you disagree. Cool. There is still no good reason to take it out. Your offense is not a reason. Can you imagine if we did things based on offense? Not wise at all. Reason has nothing to do with feelings.

Except your explanation is demonstrably wrong. People who do not believe in god actually do not believe in god.

It's not that hard to comprehend.

 

[Rosanna Miller]

I'll avoid pointing out that Allah is simply the Arabic word for "God" and is also what every Arabic-speaking Christian reads and says when they read the Bible, pray, or go to church. Though I will point out, again, that if the "god" mentioned on American currency is intended to be so utterly vague a concept as to encompass every idea of the divine, it ceases to be meaningful at all.

If the "god" mentioned on American currency is intended to be the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob then it is explicitly exclusionary and amounts to official endorsement of, if not a particular religion, a set of religions. And that emphatically contradicts the founding principles of our republic.

If the only reason someone can think of as to keep it our motto or keep it on our currency is because it makes them feel like they are part of the favored religious class in this country then they should probably take a moment to imagine what it would be like wearing another person's shoes. If you wouldn't like the motto to read, "In Zeus we trust" or "We don't trust any gods" then you should be able to have the basic human ability to empathize with others who find the current motto problematic.

I outlined earlier in this thread why I personally, as a Christian, feel about the motto in regard to my own faith in Holy Trinity. I don't subscribe to a nebulous theistic confession, I subscribe to the historic creeds of the Christian Church which expressly speak of faith in the one God and Father, Maker of heaven and earth, in His only Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, and in the Holy Spirit the Lord and giver of life. The "One God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the Essence" as it is written in the Quicumque Vult. That's my Christian faith.

I don't need a nebulous flat theistic confession; nor do I need or want a state-sponsored support for my religious convictions. I neither need nor want the State endorsing or depriving my religious convictions. I'm quite capable of believing what I believe without the support or the endorsement of the State.

-CryptoLutheran

Yet you point it out anyways? LOL. As if I did not know that. But my what I said still stands, they are not the same God. The "god" mentioned on the American currency covers the God over everyone. I think we already established that people serve different gods. It obviously will mean the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for those who serve Jesus Christ. It will mean a different god to different people. If you served Zeus, then obviously, that is what "In God we trust..." means. And I have known that for quite awhile. Am I offended? Nope. Why would I be? Who you serve, changes nothing for me. I trust in the Lord. Your choice to believe in the devil is up to you.

It is not my place to prove why it needs to stay, it is there. It is your place to give a good reason for it to be removed. There is no good reason. Feelings (offense) is not a good reason. Wow, for a Christian, you sure have a lot of ideas about what YOU want. What does the Lord want? This is what I know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it saying, "In God we trust" on the currency. So I don't think the Lord would have it changed.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Sorry but that is NOT an establishment of Religion. That covers even those who do not believe or those who don't claim to believe. Those who live for themselves, are living for god....the god of this world aka themselves.

Actually it is. It might not establish a national religion but it does make a specific religious statement of faith. The government cannot make a statement of faith on behalf of the entire country.

You see, when the government makes the statement "In God we trust" it is saying Americans trust in God. While that may be true for many millions of Americans, it is not true for millions of other Americans like myself. So right off the bat, we are dealing with a lie. It is a lie to say all Americans trust in God. Do you not mind perpetuating a known lie?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

There is still no good reason to take it out. Your offense is not a reason. Can you imagine if we did things based on offense? Not wise at all. Reason has nothing to do with feelings.

There are plenty of good reasons. Like I said, the biggest one is that this is actually illegal. The government cannot make a statement of faith on behalf of the people. Simple as that. No other reasons are even needed to remove the motto. The first amendment prohibits it. But Christians have so much power in this country that they are allowed to ignore the secular basis of our government and impose this religious belief ppb the entire country.

 

[bhsmte]

Yet you point it out anyways? LOL. As if I did not know that. But my what I said still stands, they are not the same God. The "god" mentioned on the American currency covers the God over everyone. I think we already established that people serve different gods. It obviously will mean the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for those who serve Jesus Christ. It will mean a different god to different people. If you served Zeus, then obviously, that is what "In God we trust..." means. And I have known that for quite awhile. Am I offended? Nope. Why would I be? Who you serve, changes nothing for me. I trust in the Lord. Your choice to believe in the devil is up to you.

It is not my place to prove why it needs to stay, it is there. It is your place to give a good reason for it to be removed. There is no good reason. Feelings (offense) is not a good reason. Wow, for a Christian, you sure have a lot of ideas about what YOU want. What does the Lord want? This is what I know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it saying, "In God we trust" on the currency. So I don't think the Lord would have it changed.

The logical reasons why in God we trust invokes religion, have been made.

With that said, this issue has never been on my radar, and I don't care what happens either way.

 

[Ilovegod888]

I have already explained how it applies to all. So basically, you disagree. Cool. There is still no good reason to take it out. Your offense is not a reason. Can you imagine if we did things based on offense? Not wise at all. Reason has nothing to do with feelings.

Haha, I wasn't trying to take out my anger on you. You didn't give me a single reason why to keep it there. Plus, I disagree because I was trying to say that Buddhists have no God, Hindus have many Gods, and Agnostics have no God. So it doesn't apply to all, it's a fact. My offense isn't a reason, you are a correct. It saves ink, there isn't any reason to keep it, and it doesn't show freedom of religion. Which is stated in the first amendment...because the government is choosing your religion. It's not feelings, it goes against the first amendment. Plus, they obviously meant the Christian God so why are you trying to debate? State 1 reason to keep it, I'm curious.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

The "god" mentioned on the American currency covers the God over everyone. I think we already established that people serve different gods. It obviously will mean the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for those who serve Jesus Christ. It will mean a different god to different people. If you served Zeus, then obviously, that is what "In God we trust..." means.

People who don't believe in any gods (like myself) are left out. Do you not consider me an American such as yourself? Should I be left out and not represented in our national motto?

Aside from that, would you like it if the motto was changed to "In Allah we trust"? Allah only means God in Arabic, so you wouldn't be saying anything different? Somehow, I don't think you'd be okay with that.

It is not my place to prove why it needs to stay, it is there. It is your place to give a good reason for it to be removed.

The first amendment is as good a reason as any, if not the best reason why it shouldn't be there.

There is no good reason.

Why is it even there in the first place? Or government is not supposed to making statements of faith for the public.

I don't know about you, but I don't trust the government enough to allow them to speak for me when it comes to matters of faith.

 

[Ilovegod888]

People who don't believe in any gods (like myself) are left out. Do you not consider me an American such as yourself? Should I be left out and not represented in our national motto?

Aside from that, would you like it if the motto was changed to "In Allah we trust"? Allah only means God in Arabic, so you wouldn't be saying anything different? Somehow, I don't think you'd be okay with that.

The first amendment is as good a reason as any, if not the best reason why it shouldn't be there.


Why is it even there in the first place? Or government is not supposed to making statements of faith for the public.

I don't know about you, but I don't trust the government enough to allow them to speak for me when it comes to matters of faith.

I agree and I'm Christian. No one should force you to believe what they believe. The first amendment clearly states freedom of religion. I agree 100% with your statement.

 

[Rosanna Miller]

There are plenty of good reasons. Like I said, the biggest one is that this is actually illegal. The government cannot make a statement of faith on behalf of the people. Simple as that. No other reasons are even needed to remove the motto. The first amendment prohibits it. But Christians have so much power in this country that they are allowed to ignore the secular basis of our government and impose this religious belief ppb the entire country.

It is not illegal, the Founding Father's set up the nation with that declaration...."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator (aka GOD) with certain unalienable Rights....! That is why and how we separated from Britain! If people don't like our Constitution, I suggest they kick rocks! Simple as that. The Founding Fathers served the Lord, your approval is not needed nor welcome!

 

[bhsmte]

It is not illegal, the Founding Father's set up the nation with that declaration...."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator (aka GOD) with certain unalienable Rights....! That is why and how we separated from Britain! If people don't like our Constitution, I suggest they kick rocks! Simple as that. The Founding Fathers served the Lord, your approval is not needed nor welcome!

Do you like the part of our constitution that allows people to freely worship the God of their choosing, or no God at all, which clearly violates the 1st commandment.

 

[Rosanna Miller]

People who don't believe in any gods (like myself) are left out. Do you not consider me an American such as yourself? Should I be left out and not represented in our national motto?

It is not my problem that you FEEL left out because of our national motto. Do what our Founding Fathers did and establish your own country then!

Aside from that, would you like it if the motto was changed to "In Allah we trust"? Allah only means God in Arabic, so you wouldn't be saying anything different? Somehow, I don't think you'd be okay with that.

I already answered this! I explained why it is not ok! They are NOT the same thing! Allah is not my god! I could care less about what it means in Arabic, it is Satan!!!

The first amendment is as good a reason as any, if not the best reason why it shouldn't be there.

Not really, since it was our Founding Fathers who put it in there! And there is no reason to remove what was placed on there to begin with.


Why is it even there in the first place? Or government is not supposed to making statements of faith for the public.

OMGosh, are you even American? Why is it there? SERIOUSLY? Did you get high at school? I don't think you went to learn.

I don't know about you, but I don't trust the government enough to allow them to speak for me when it comes to matters of faith.

I know my Father, God. I don't need to trust the government, I trust Him.

 

[Rosanna Miller]

Do you like the part of our constitution that allows people to freely worship the God of their choosing, or no God at all, which clearly violates the 1st amendment?

It doesn't violate anything. Are you free to stay home and be lazy if you choose? Yes. Are you free to worship Buddah, Krishna, Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc.? Yes.

Enough said.

 

[Rosanna Miller]

Actually it is. It might not establish a national religion but it does make a specific religious statement of faith. The government cannot make a statement of faith on behalf of the entire country.

You see, when the government makes the statement "In God we trust" it is saying Americans trust in God. While that may be true for many millions of Americans, it is not true for millions of other Americans like myself. So right off the bat, we are dealing with a lie. It is a lie to say all Americans trust in God. Do you not mind perpetuating a known lie?

Then move out and establish your own country.

 

[Armoured]

It doesn't violate anything. Are you free to stay home and be lazy if you choose? Yes. Are you free to worship Buddah, Krishna, Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc.? Yes.

Enough said.

Are you free to use money that doesn't have someone else's prayer on it?

 

[Rosanna Miller]

Except your explanation is demonstrably wrong. People who do not believe in god actually do not believe in god.

It's not that hard to comprehend.

It is not me that needs to give a reason to keep it. So nice try. If you don't like our Constitution, move. Leave our Constitution alone.

 

[Rosanna Miller]

So you're trying to argue that those who don't believe actually do believe?

If you can't see how repugnant that is, it's no wonder you can't see why atheists like myself would get upset about the government trying to tell me what I believe as well.

I could care less why you get upset. Good luck with that. Are you hearing voices? The government hasn't told you anything.

 

[Armoured]

I could care less

Ugh.

 

[Rosanna Miller]

Are you free to use money that doesn't have someone else's prayer on it?

What the heck are you talking about? That question makes no sense. If I visit Mexico, am I allowed to use my money there? Yes. I simply convert my American currency for Mexican currency, while I am there.