Evolution is just a theory!

[Loudmouth]

I disagree. Myth is the HIGHEST form of literature there is. Calling Genesis a myth by those who understand literature is a compliment. In a proper understanding of mythology, myth's are not lies but teach eternal truths with symbols. Now anti-theists are idiots when it comes to literature. They are stuck in concrete thinking and don't understand what the heck they are talking about. They THINK a myth is a lie, which is an insult to mythology. So yes, in THEIR case, because THEY mean it as an insult, it is an insult.

As an atheist, I heartily agree. Myth is not a derogatory term. Myth is how truths were communicated in ancient times.

 

[joshua 1 9]

It's not parabolic when the Bible says that God regretted his creation and decided to drown the whole world with the exception of an ancestor of the Israelites, or Hebrews, or people of Judah who we generically call "Jews" who wrote that story about their place in the world while looking down on everyone else.

It is important to read this verse in the Hebrew. God regretted that He made man on the earth and He was grieved. He said: "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth". Earth here is Adamah in the Hebrew. This is a reference to the man living in Eden at the time. We know that God did not destroy man from the whole world. God gave us our Bible, God also gives us the natural record that we find in the natural world. He would not and could not contradict Himself. The name used for God here is different from the name used in Genesis Chapter one. This is the God in Eden, the God of Adam and Eve and their descendants. Again, God does not contradict Himself. He gives us the Bible and He gives us the natural record showing His Creation and the work He has done in this world. We need discernment to understand what is going on here in the Bible. Who God is unhappy with and who was destroyed at this point in time. In Mat 24 37 we read: "as it was in the days of Noah". Once again God is going to cleanse this world. First by water and next by fire. People mocked Noah then and people mock Noah now. Again a time is coming and this time it really will be the whole world that will be destroyed. So there is a comparison to Noah's day in the Ancient world and the world we live in today at the end of this current age or era.

6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.38"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,… Mat 24 37

 

[PsychoSarah]

It is important to read this verse in the Hebrew. God regretted that He made man on the earth and He was grieved. He said: "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth". Earth here is Adamah in the Hebrew. This is a reference to the man living in Eden at the time. We know that God did not destroy man from the whole world. God gave us our Bible, God also gives us the natural record that we find in the natural world. He would not and could not contradict Himself. The name used for God here is different from the name used in Genesis Chapter one. This is the God in Eden, the God of Adam and Eve and their descendants. Again, God does not contradict Himself. He gives us the Bible and He gives us the natural record showing His Creation and the work He has done in this world. We need discernment to understand what is going on here in the Bible. Who God is unhappy with and who was destroyed at this point in time. In Mat 24 37 we read: "as it was in the days of Noah". Once again God is going to cleanse this world. First by water and next by fire. People mocked Noah then and people mock Noah now. Again a time is coming and this time it really will be the whole world that will be destroyed. So there is a comparison to Noah's day in the Ancient world and the world we live in today at the end of this current age or era.

6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.38"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,… Mat 24 37

While I greatly appreciate the fact that you show yourself to be highly informed on the bible, this does not change the problem that an omniscient and omnipotent being should not be capable of doing something it later regrets, as it would know the consequences of its actions before performing them.

 

[bhsmte]

While I greatly appreciate the fact that you show yourself to be highly informed on the bible, this does not change the problem that an omniscient and omnipotent being should not be capable of doing something it later regrets, as it would know the consequences of its actions before performing them.

A commonly ignored issue.

 

[joshua 1 9]

As an atheist, I heartily agree. Myth is not a derogatory term. Myth is how truths were communicated in ancient times.

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him,Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

There is a reason why Jesus used parables in His teaching. He did not want those who are perishing to understand His teaching. It is difficult for us to understand why He does not want some people to understand and perceive. It is even more difficult to understand how some are able to perceive and others are not able. What is so clear for some of us is beyond comprehension for others.

"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.14"In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;…

 

[Meowzltov]

As an atheist, I heartily agree. Myth is not a derogatory term. Myth is how truths were communicated in ancient times.

And today as well. Science fiction is our modern mythology. Shows like Outer Limits are our morality plays.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him,Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

There is a reason why Jesus used parables in His teaching. He did not want those who are perishing to understand His teaching. It is difficult for us to understand why He does not want some people to understand and perceive. It is even more difficult to understand how some are able to perceive and others are not able. What is so clear for some of us is beyond comprehension for others.

"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.14"In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;…

From my perspective, that seems like a cop-out, and an illogical one at that. Even you can't excuse it, because it is completely illogical for Jesus to make his teachings vague or hard to understand... if he is being honest.

However, if Jesus were to doubt himself or think himself to be wrong, he would have every reason to be vague (broadening the possibilities that could be interpreted has him being correct) and confusing (making it harder to notice when he is wrong).

 

[bhsmte]

From my perspective, that seems like a cop-out, and an illogical one at that. Even you can't excuse it, because it is completely illogical for Jesus to make his teachings vague or hard to understand... if he is being honest.

However, if Jesus were to doubt himself or think himself to be wrong, he would have every reason to be vague (broadening the possibilities that could be interpreted has him being correct) and confusing (making it harder to notice when he is wrong).

Sure, makes perfect sense, doesn't it.

Make it a requirement to believe in Jesus to be saved from eternal torment and then make his teachings difficult to understand.

 

[joshua 1 9]

While I greatly appreciate the fact that you show yourself to be highly informed on the bible, this does not change the problem that an omniscient and omnipotent being should not be capable of doing something it later regrets, as it would know the consequences of its actions before performing them.

Unless you can show me where "omniscient and omnipotent" are in the Bible I can not comment on that concept. The point you make here has to do with free will. We can not freely love God is we do not have freedom of choice. The one freedom we do not seem to have is a freedom NOT to make a choice. If we refuse to make a choice than that will be counted against us. We are either for God or against Him. We either gather or we scatter. There is no middle ground and there is no fence sitting.

 

[Meowzltov]

From my perspective, that seems like a cop-out, and an illogical one at that. Even you can't excuse it, because it is completely illogical for Jesus to make his teachings vague or hard to understand... if he is being honest.

You know, it all has to do with literary comprehension. Some people think on a concrete level. They don't get figurative stuff like poetry unless you spell it out for them in similes. This sort had a hard time with Jesus' teachings. But other people have no problem with abstractions. For them, Jesus' teachings are not a problem. It's very obvious, i.e., what the parable of the seeds represents. And stories like this carry more emotional punch than prose.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You know, it all has to do with literary comprehension. Some people think on a concrete level. They don't get figurative stuff like poetry unless you spell it out for them in similes. This sort had a hard time with Jesus' teachings. But other people have no problem with abstractions. For them, Jesus' teachings are not a problem. It's very obvious, i.e., what the parable of the seeds represents. And stories like this carry more emotional punch than prose.

Why should the "truth" need an emotional punch at all? To me, it is more important that the truth be clear than it be beautifully said.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Unless you can show me where "omniscient and omnipotent" are in the Bible I can not comment on that concept. The point you make here has to do with free will. We can not freely love God is we do not have freedom of choice. The one freedom we do not seem to have is a freedom NOT to make a choice. If we refuse to make a choice than that will be counted against us. We are either for God or against Him. We either gather or we scatter. There is no middle ground and there is no fence sitting.

I apologize, I usually assume believers hold their god as all powerful in every regard, and I reasonably withdraw that argument in the context of speaking with you.

However, belief is not a choice. I have been trying for nearly 7 years now, and no dice.

 

[joshua 1 9]

From my perspective, that seems like a cop-out, and an illogical one at that.

I do not remember ever having seen Heaven. For me perhaps if I saw how wonderful Heaven is then it would be difficult for me to live in this world in the condition it is in. For people that are perishing this is evidence of the Love God has for them that they do not really know what they are missing out on. IF you knew then you would seek after God JUST for the reward and not because of your love for Him. This is explained when the Bible talks about marriage. For example, would a man marry a women because she was beautiful? If he does then what happens when she gets older and she is no longer beautiful? Would a women marry a man because he has a good job and makes good money? What happens if he gets fired or disabled and can not work any more and he no longer has money? You can flip this around, would a women marry a man because he has money or because he is good looking or because of the love she has for him? Love endures forever, the love we have for God and the love that God has for us. As the song says longer then there have been fish in the ocean. Longer then there have been stars up in the Heaven.

I'll bring fire in the winters'
You'll send showers in the springs
We'll fly through the falls and summers with love on our wings

Read more: Dan Fogelberg - Longer Lyrics | MetroLyrics

 

[joshua 1 9]

I apologize, I usually assume believers hold their god as all powerful in every regard, and I reasonably withdraw that argument in the context of speaking with you.

However, belief is not a choice. I have been trying for nearly 7 years now, and no dice.

My grandmother did not get saved until she was 99 years old. I waited 17 years from my divorce before I got married again. I wanted to be married but I did not want a second marriage to end up in a divorce also. So I had to wait 17 years before I could get married again. So 7 years really is not that long of a time. We are given 70 years and if we are strong at 70 we can live to be at least 80. I am working on building up my strength so I can live to be around 80.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I do not remember ever having seen Heaven. For me perhaps if I saw how wonderful Heaven is then it would be difficult for me to live in this world in the condition it is in. For people that are perishing this is evidence of the Love God has for them that they do not really know what they are missing out on. IF you knew then you would seek after God JUST for the reward and not because of your love for Him. This is explained when the Bible talks about marriage. For example, would a man marry a women because she was beautiful? If he does then what happens when she gets older and she is no longer beautiful? Would a women marry a man because he has a good job and makes good money? What happens if he gets fired or disabled and can not work any more and he no longer has money? You can flip this around, would a women marry a man because he has money or because he is good looking or because of the love she has for him? Love endures forever, the love we have for God and the love that God has for us. As the song says longer then there have been fish in the ocean. Longer then there have been stars up in the Heaven.

I'll bring fire in the winters'
You'll send showers in the springs
We'll fly through the falls and summers with love on our wings

Read more: Dan Fogelberg - Longer Lyrics | MetroLyrics

I do not seek belief for any reward, in fact, I view the biblical heaven, as implied in the bible, as worse than the biblical hell. Perhaps the most honest way to portray my desire for belief is my crippling fear of death: I do not believe in any afterlife at all. While most atheists do just fine with that, and some still believe in an afterlife even though they don't believe in deities, I find the prospect of every day inching me closer to nonexistence as terrifying.

Even if I believed in the Christian god, I could never forgive said deity for the hell and heaven it created, and likely would not show it any love. But to me, even hell, which is something, is more than the oblivion I currently believe in.

This is also why I and many other atheists are unmoved by the threat of hell. Why fear something we don't think exists?

 

[Meowzltov]

Why should the "truth" need an emotional punch at all? To me, it is more important that the truth be clear than it be beautifully said.

Because you are trying to reach the WHOLE person, who has intuition as well as reasoning.

 

[PsychoSarah]

My grandmother did not get saved until she was 99 years old. I waited 17 years from my divorce before I got married again. I wanted to be married but I did not want a second marriage to end up in a divorce also. So I had to wait 17 years before I could get married again. So 7 years really is not that long of a time. We are given 70 years and if we are strong at 70 we can live to be at least 80. I am working on building up my strength so I can live to be around 80.

You have no idea how often people tell me eventually, so long as I keep it up, I will be saved. Don't worry, I have no desire to quit, but know that this sentiment gives me no comfort whatsoever.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Because you are trying to reach the WHOLE person, who has intuition as well as reasoning.

Intuition appeal is not necessary for most people to understand a concept, and is pointless to appeal to if doing so hurts the appeal to reasoning.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Sure, makes perfect sense, doesn't it.

Make it a requirement to believe in Jesus to be saved from eternal torment and then make his teachings difficult to understand.

God has impressed it upon me many times that He is a God of absolute and perfect justice. Do you question the Justice of God? Do you think He is unfair or unjust.

 

[PsychoSarah]

God has impressed it upon me many times that He is a God of absolute and perfect justice. Do you question the Justice of God? Do you think He is unfair or unjust.

Well, yes. Would you find it reasonable to punish people for not believing in the right deity, or none at all? Does that sound like something worthy of eternal torment? But, to be blunt, fairness or justice has nothing to do with whether or not I believe in said deity. The truth does not conform to desire. Back on track, any system that views a white lie and a murder as equivalent crimes, and will pardon either for belief alone, is a broken, immoral system.