Evolution is just a theory!

[Meowzltov]

You have no idea how often people tell me eventually, so long as I keep it up, I will be saved. Don't worry, I have no desire to quit, but know that this sentiment gives me no comfort whatsoever.

Sarah, I think that some folks just have a broken God radar, through no fault of their own. I can't expect them to believe in something for which they have no real evidence. I don't think you can be blamed. Even the Pope believes there will be atheists in heaven based on what you do with the light that you DO have.
" ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there." - Pope Francis http://www.catholicvote.org/what-pope-francis-really-said-about-atheists/

 

[PsychoSarah]

Sarah, I think that some folks just have a broken God radar, through no fault of their own. I can't expect them to believe in something for which they have no real evidence. I don't think you can be blamed. Even the Pope believes there will be atheists in heaven based on what you do with the light that you DO have.
" ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there." - Pope Francis http://www.catholicvote.org/what-pope-francis-really-said-about-atheists/

Yeah, he's a cool pope, and personally I respect Catholicism as being one of the few branches of Christianity that suggests even believers cannot get away with murder without doing more than just believing. However, the bible strongly implies that nonbelief is the major mechanism of getting into hell.

 

[Meowzltov]

Intuition appeal is not necessary for most people to understand a concept, and is pointless to appeal to if doing so hurts the appeal to reasoning.

There are some folks who have great intuition and a terrible sense of reasoning, some who are tilted away from intuition towards reasoning, and some are well balanced. It only makes sense to appeal to both sides. You are obviously a reason based person. I'm an intuitive.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You have no idea how often people tell me eventually, so long as I keep it up, I will be saved. Don't worry, I have no desire to quit, but know that this sentiment gives me no comfort whatsoever.

Comfort comes from the Holy Spirit of God. John 14 26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things," I hear people talk about going to the alter at the end of the church service where there are people that will help you to pray it through to receive all of what God has for you. Maybe that is the help that you need. The Bible talks about where two or three are gathered in His name. "For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them." I know not all churches have something like that. But there are churches or services that you can go to where they will pray with you to join with you in agreement. We have a friend that was going to have surgery and we went over to her house before she went in so we could pray with her, for God to give her the strength to get through the operation. It was a 12 hour procedure so it was somewhat complicated. Still she did good, everything went fine and she was more then comforted so she was not in a lot of pain. We can ask why God allowed her to endure what she has had to endure. Perhaps it is because of her love for her family that she was willing to help carry some of their burden for them. We are told that with the comfort we receive from God we are able to comfort others.

 

[PsychoSarah]

There are some folks who have great intuition and a terrible sense of reasoning, some who are tilted away from intuition towards reasoning, and some are well balanced. It only makes sense to appeal to both sides. You are obviously a reason based person. I'm an intuitive.

It is not impossible to strongly appeal to both reason and intuition, and wording something elegantly does not make it appeal to intuition more strongly; making it simple and fit with pre existing observations is what does that.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Comfort comes from the Holy Spirit of God. John 14 26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things," I hear people talk about going to the alter at the end of the church service where there are people that will help you to pray it through to receive all of what God has for you. Maybe that is the help that you need. The Bible talks about where two or three are gathered in His name. "For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them." I know not all churches have something like that. But there are churches or services that you can go to where they will pray with you to join with you in agreement. We have a friend that was going to have surgery and we went over to her house before she went in so we could pray for her, for God to give her the strength to get through the operation. It was a 12 hour procedure so it was somewhat complicated. Still she did good, everything went fine and she was more then comforted so she was not in a lot of pain. We can ask why God allowed her to endure what she has had to endure. Perhaps it is because of her love for her family that she was willing to help carry some of their burden for them. We are told that with the comfort we receive from God we are able to comfort others.

You do realize I have prayed before, and do so frequently, yes? The primary thing I pray for is for belief (as a little kid, I did it for some other things, like finding a lost toy). For context though, I was always a highly skeptical child, and that was my way of covering "all the bases".

 

[Meowzltov]

wording something elegantly does not make it appeal to intuition more strongly

I was not referring to elegance. I thought we were talking about myth.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I was not referring to elegance. I thought we were talking about myth.

Ah yes, the overly long, convoluted means of teaching people very basic concepts. A great story doesn't necessarily make for a great teaching method.

 

[bhsmte]

God has impressed it upon me many times that He is a God of absolute and perfect justice. Do you question the Justice of God? Do you think He is unfair or unjust.

Yes, I do.

 

[Colter]

While I greatly appreciate the fact that you show yourself to be highly informed on the bible, this does not change the problem that an omniscient and omnipotent being should not be capable of doing something it later regrets, as it would know the consequences of its actions before performing them.

The Bible, being a man made collection various truths, events, myths, exaggerations etc does in fact indicate that God is eternal, infinite, omniscient and omnipotent. The Hebrews flood myth is a direct contradiction.

 

[PsychoSarah]

The Bible, being a man made collection various truths, events, myths, exaggerations etc does in fact indicate that God is eternal, infinite, omniscient and omnipotent. The Hebrews flood myth is a direct contradiction.

It would be fair to suggest that the myth was both exaggerated as well as incorrectly attributed to a deity. Pretty sure most Christians would agree that not every natural disaster is directly made by god

 

[joshua 1 9]

You do realize I have prayed before, and do so frequently, yes? The primary thing I pray for is for belief (as a little kid, I did it for some other things, like finding a lost toy). For context though, I was always a highly skeptical child, and that was my way of covering "all the bases".

For me as I was becoming a christian I was learning how to pray so that I got results. Of course this means to pray according to God's will for us. It helps if we ask for what He wants to give us. It also helps if we know what He wants for us.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Yes, I do.

That is easy enough to understand when we see some of the horrible things that people do to each other. I can not help but to wonder why God allows these atrocities to go on. Yet His promise continues that He will cause good to come out of it. All things work together for the best. Of course you do not have that luxury sense you claim God does not exist then you can not blame Him for allowing man to make a mess out of this world.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The Bible, being a man made collection various truths, events, myths, exaggerations etc does in fact indicate that God is eternal, infinite, omniscient and omnipotent. The Hebrews flood myth is a direct contradiction.

Just like evolutionists have painted their selves into a corner on some issues. In Christianity there are some things that we only have one explanation for. The flood is a result of man's rebellion against God. He could destroy mankind and start all over again, but because of His love for mankind He has elected to save as many as are willing to be saved. We then have free will and free choice if we want to follow God and His plan or not. There is no difference then as there is now. Our generation has the same choice and the same option as they did in Noah's day. Perhaps that would make Noah a sort of a litmus test. Now just as much as then in his day when he was still alive. Just like in the book of Job: "Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nothing?

Does God put people to the test? How can we determine if they pass or fail. Is it not a bit bazaar that God would create us and then have to test us to see if we are worthy or not? Could He not get it right in the first place if he does not make errors or mistakes. Still it comes down to free will.

 

[Colter]

Just like evolutionists have painted their selves into a corner on some issues. In Christianity there are some things that we only have one explanation for. The flood is a result of man's rebellion against God. He could destroy mankind and start all over again, but because of His love for mankind He has elected to save as many as are willing to be saved. We then have free will and free choice if we want to follow God and His plan or not. There is no difference then as there is now. Our generation has the same choice and the same option as they did in Noah's day. Perhaps that would make Noah a sort of a litmus test. Now just as much as then in his day when he was still alive. Just like in the book of Job: "Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nothing?

Does God put people to the test? How can we determine if they pass or fail. Is it not a bit bazaar that God would create us and then have to test us to see if we are worthy or not? Could He not get it right in the first place if he does not make errors or mistakes. Still it comes down to free will.

The flood as depicted by the Hebrew authors is the result of their failure to trace their bloodlines back to a much older Adam & Eve. Unable to do so they coopted a well known local flood legend and drowned the whole world in its own wickedness while revising their history. They never claimed inspiration, that happened with later generations of the elite priest class.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The flood as depicted by the Hebrew authors is the result of their failure to trace their bloodlines back to a much older Adam & Eve. Unable to do so they coopted a well known local flood legend and drowned the whole world in its own wickedness. They never claimed inspiration, that happened with later generations of the elite priest class.

Hebrews talks about the faith of people we read about in the Bible. We were talking about Matthew ch 24. Here Jesus was asked two questions. When would the temple be tore down, the other question is when will the end of this era be. He was answering both questions at the same time. So some people get confused if He is talking about the events in 70 AD when the temple in Jerusalem was tore down or if He is talking about what has yet to take place in what we now know is the Church age, or the age of Grace. This is when we are told that at the end of this age it will be as it was in the days of Noah. "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark," So for some the world will continue to look normal to them right up to the end.

 

[bhsmte]

That is easy enough to understand when we see some of the horrible things that people do to each other. I can not help but to wonder why God allows these atrocities to go on. Yet His promise continues that He will cause good to come out of it. All things work together for the best. Of course you do not have that luxury sense you claim God does not exist then you can not blame Him for allowing man to make a mess out of this world.

Any theology, which condemns people for not being part of the club, because they simply can not reconcile the story with reality, is a theology that is morally bankrupt.

Many Christians believe, that if you are not part of their religion, you are doomed, no matter the quality of life an atheist, muslim, hindu or non Christian may lead. All the while, if the serial killer finds Jesus on death row, they can be saved.

Sorry, this reeks of injustice and immorality.

 

[AV1611VET]

Any theology, which condemns people for not being part of the club, because they simply can not reconcile the story with reality, is a theology that is morally bankrupt.

Christianity is the only family that adopts those who aren't qualified to be adopted.

Many Christians believe, that if you are not part of their religion, you are doomed, no matter the quality of life an atheist, muslim, hindu or non Christian may lead. All the while, if the serial killer finds Jesus on death row, they can be saved.

That's right.

What you did before you were adopted is expunged from the record.

Sorry, this reeks of injustice and immorality.

There are three types of moral judgements:

1. justice = getting what you deserve
2. mercy = not getting what you deserve (Hell)
3. grace = getting what you don't deserve (Heaven)

Guess which one God uses?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[joshua 1 9]

Any theology, which condemns people for not being part of the club, because they simply can not reconcile the story with reality, is a theology that is morally bankrupt.

Many Christians believe, that if you are not part of their religion, you are doomed, no matter the quality of life an atheist, muslim, hindu or non Christian may lead. All the while, if the serial killer finds Jesus on death row, they can be saved.

Sorry, this reeks of injustice and immorality.

I had a situation like that when I was attending a church. There was a new Muslim community center in the neighborhood and we had a class on how we were going to deal with that. The person that was leading the class claimed to be a missionary person. Their conclusion was that our objective was to convert people from their religion to our religion. So I asked a few questions. First of all if you try to convert a Muslim like that in some countries you are risking your life. They informed me that I should risk my life. So I said ok, will you go with me. He went home and came back the next day and said NO, He was not going to go with me. He was not willing to follow his own advise. I ended up leaving that church after two or three of this sort of thing happened there. Just to much inconsistency.

I believe that salvation is a gift of God. WE do not get saved by works. We are not required to risk our lives. We can choose to risk our lives and we will receive a reward, but this is not a requirement to get saved. So that means it is not a requirement to leave the Muslim faith. Jesus is the only way to be saved, there is no other way. But the church itself does not save us. I do believe that the atonement is two fold. Jesus died to reconcile us with the father, but also Jesus died to reconcile us with each other. Yet we do not know for sure who is and who is not saved. We are told to let the weeds grow with the wheat. For me we are to be reconciled with all Christians, not just the inner circle Christians.

Yet this is a very real issue. It is very common for people to only associate with the minions in their church. They do not want to associate with anyone outside of their social circle. This is not really acceptable with me. Even I see these inner circle relationships turn from love into hate so fast and easy that I really wonder what is going on with people sometimes. I do not say anything, I let people be in this regard. But I wonder about this sort of them and us attitude sometimes.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Christianity is the only family that adopts those who aren't qualified to be adopted.That's right.

What you did before you were adopted is expunged from the record.There are three types of moral judgements:

1. justice = getting what you deserve
2. mercy = not getting what you deserve (Hell)
3. grace = getting what you don't deserve (Heaven)

Guess which one God uses?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

God is a God of Absolute Justice. That is why Jesus had to go to Calvary to pay the price for our sin. A price that was to high for us to pay. Our debt is marked paid in full because Jesus pays that sin debt for us. God's Justice will prevail.