Why does the earth rotate?

[dad]

I have not seen or experienced otherwise these spacecraft and their journeys. I have seen and experienced my mother.

You are basically saying that what is real in the universe must be under your nose?

 

[dad]

Ah, the old creationist standby. "Goddidit." The explanation that requires absolutely zero knowledge.

The more important issue is that you in no way are in any position to challenge it.

That tells me NOTHING of the cause and mechanism.

It tells you all you need to know. Jesus spoke the world into existence. There was never a little hot speck of soup that burped out the universe, and never any random little wandering lost planet that happened to smash into earth and start it spinning. There is no proof for that at all. Just a serious misreading of the heavens.

HOW did God accomplish it?

How did He calm the seas? He spoke, they behaved instantly! How did He heal the sick? He spoke, they were 100% better instantly. How did He raise the dead? He spoke, and they were alive and well again. What makes little man think he should be able to know all things at this stage of his little existence?? What pride. What presumptuousness. What gall. What darkness.

WHY did he decide that it needed to change?

Why did the sons of god need to no longer be able to marry women, or spirits live so directly among men? Why did men need to no longer live 1000 years, but less than a hundred? Why did the continents need to be separated? Etc etc etc. It is our job to love and trust Him, that He knows what He is doing and that it is for the best!

 

[ecco]

That's what everybody thought until ... <snip> ... undergoing nuclear fusion is 'sentient'?​

If your post was addressed to me you must have missed...
"All quotes from Ananda with post #'s indicated."

What Sun circles? Not sure what you're referring to there.

• Even flat earthers believe in day and night. In a flat earth concept, the sun travels in circles creating times of sunlight and darkness on opposite sides of the disk.
• Even flat earthers believe in seasons. In a flat earth concept, the sun moves farther North (toward the center of the earth) in June and farther South (toward the edge) in December.

The only way this is possible is if the diameter of the sun's "circles" change.

Therefore this exchange:
ecco:

How would you explain how the sun can make circles over the flat earth with the size of the circles varying daily from small to large in six months and back to small circles during the next six months? What is changing the size of the sun's circles?​

Ananda:

I believe that the sun is.
​

Implying solar sentience. Later confirmed by other posts.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you wish to claim "God did it", then in order for that explanation to hold water, there has to be a God.

Brilliant.

Sounds good to me!

Can you please supply us with strong objective evidence that there is actually a God capable of doing it?

I hear He's invisible.

1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Invisible doesn't just mean like the Invisible Man.

Invisible means He doesn't show up in scientists' Secret Sam play toys.

Compared to God, the Hubble telescope isn't worth the material it's made of.

Until scientists can do this ...

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

... they can stop acting like He doesn't exist.

 

[civilwarbuff]

If you wish to claim "God did it", then in order for that explanation to hold water, there has to be a God. Can you please supply us with strong objective evidence that there is actually a God capable of doing it?

I can supply 2 strong pieces of evidence, however, both will be unacceptable to you.
1. Believe Jesus is the Son of God, ask forgiveness of your sins, and be imbued with the Holy Spirit. This is the easiest and simplest way to prove God exists. Once you have the Holy Spirit inside you, you would never want to deny God....or
2. Die and stand in the presence of God for judgement....I don't recommend this path....consequences are not good if you are not saved.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I have seen and experienced my mother.

No, you have experienced a woman who claims to be your mother unless you are saying that you remember your birth, being placed in her arms for the first time, and seeing her face when you first opened your eyes....and then of course you were there and witnessed the signing of your birth certificate, right? You remember seeing your parent(s) signing that piece of paper, correct? You would not just be depending on the fact that someone told you that they are your mother without objective proof, right? Like a birth certificate from some stranger in a building saying this is you? Maybe you are not even who you believe you are. Maybe you are somebody else....a figment of your own imagination...

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Brilliant.

Sounds good to me!I hear He's invisible.

1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Invisible doesn't just mean like the Invisible Man.

Invisible means He doesn't show up in scientists' Secret Sam play toys.

Compared to God, the Hubble telescope isn't worth the material it's made of.

Until scientists can do this ...

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

... they can stop acting like He doesn't exist.

If you could give evidence that what happened in 2 Kings 6:17 actually happened in the way, i.e. that there were horses and chariots of fire created by God, then that would be evidence. However, what is written in a book isn't itself evidence, but a report of evidence. How do we know that this report in the Bible is true, and due to supernatural means?

 

[AnotherAtheist]

I can supply 2 strong pieces of evidence, however, both will be unacceptable to you.
1. Believe Jesus is the Son of God, ask forgiveness of your sins, and be imbued with the Holy Spirit. This is the easiest and simplest way to prove God exists. Once you have the Holy Spirit inside you, you would never want to deny God....or

This is circular. You can't have evidence of God unless you believe. And such evidence is clearly not the objective externally verifiable evidence that I asked for.

2. Die and stand in the presence of God for judgement....I don't recommend this path....consequences are not good if you are not saved.

This is unobservable from the living world, and hence is no objective evidence at all.

 

[dad]

If you could give evidence that what happened in 2 Kings 6:17 actually happened in the way, i.e. that there were horses and chariots of fire created by God, then that would be evidence. However, what is written in a book isn't itself evidence, but a report of evidence. How do we know that this report in the Bible is true, and due to supernatural means?

The hundreds who saw Christ risen from the dead took that as evidence. That is why it is 2015. Jesus confirmed the rest of the bible is true. That is evidence. Jesus is alive in me and millions of others. That is evidence. He could be in you also if you asked Him in. Then you would have evidence. Those that have not, are in the dark for a reason.

 

[029b10]

You can't have evidence of God unless you believe.
This is unobservable from the living world, and hence is no objective evidence at all.

Sure there is, the 120 Principle says that the Genome is designed to allow man [male or female]up to only 120 years of life.
In over a 100 years of record keeping, including billions of recorded documents, there is only one case believed to been verified
where the person lived past the age of 120 years old.

However, a real principle applies to the present, it would extend to back to the beginning, and will continue in
perpetuity in the future.

And in such, the fact that the one person is said to have been verified past 120 years of age would indicate one of
two things;
1. the first being that there was an error in the validation process and the person was not actually 122+ years old at the time of their passing, or;
2. even 1 in billions of records, if the principle does not hold true in each and every case the Principle would be invalid, that is the importance of scientific principles.

Since I am sure somebody will bring up the ages of men recorded in the Torah.
" Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good:" Eccl 6:6

 

[AV1611VET]

How do we know that this report in the Bible is true, and due to supernatural means?

I don't know how you'll know it, but I know it by faith.

That's the only way I'm familiar with as to how one can know the events that transpired in the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

The hundreds who saw Christ risen from the dead took that as evidence. That is why it is 2015. Jesus confirmed the rest of the bible is true. That is evidence. Jesus is alive in me and millions of others. That is evidence. He could be in you also if you asked Him in. Then you would have evidence. Those that have not, are in the dark for a reason.

+1

 

[ecco]

The hundreds who saw Christ risen from the dead took that as evidence.

How do you know that hundreds saw christ risen from the dead? There are no eyewitness accounts. There are only stories that are intentionally written to sound like first hand accounts when, in fact they are either:

Stories passed on from person to person
-or-
Totally fabricated stories​

Neither is convincing.

 

[AV1611VET]

How do you know that hundreds saw christ risen from the dead?

How do you know they didn't?

Were you there?

There are no eyewitness accounts.

What's this then?

Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

1 Corinthians 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

You sound like this:

Mark 16:11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

 

[ananda]

So you have no idea and presumably have no evidence for an alternative view. In the meantime, why don't you look at the evidence from the experts who, you know, actually study the Sun? Why are you so determined to reject virtually everything in science?

When did I say that I reject virtually everything in "science"? After reading conflicting "science" reports on the subject, I accept science which you reject.

The Sun is not a living organism and therefore doesn't have DNA. Try again.

And you know this ... how?

Ok, so your unevidenced beliefs vs. centuries of astronomy. Hmmmm. That's a tough one.

They show retrograde motion in ways that is completely predictable. You can calculate and predict the position of bodies in the solar system hundreds of years into the future.

You can know whether spacecraft were sent to them by actually looking at the evidence. Do you think all spacecraft and satellites are a giant conspiracy involving thousands and thousands of people around the world keeping a massive secret? Get real.

I possess no personal, first-hand evidence regarding alleged spacecraft and satellites or of these "thousands and thousands of people". Retrograde motion is predictable whether the model is heliocentric or geocentric. Get real.

 

[ecco]

How do you know they didn't?

Were you there?What's this then?

Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

1 Corinthians 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

I have come to understand that you do not carefully read posts. I already stated:

There are no eyewitness accounts.
There are only stories that are intentionally written to sound like first hand accounts when, in fact they are either:
Stories passed on from person to person
-or-
Totally fabricated stories

Neither is convincing.​

I wasn't there. You were not there. The authors of Acts and Corinthians were not there. I'd say that no one who was there wrote about it, but you'd only say, as in another thread or an earlier post (I can't remember which) "god didn't preserve those writings".

You sound like this:

Mark 16:11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

How about:
And they, when they had seen that he was alive, wrote down this immensely important event to preserve it in the historical record.
I guess seeing a dead man walking just wasn't noteworthy.

 

[ananda]

You are basically saying that what is real in the universe must be under your nose?

No, I am saying that I have no reason to believe anything is definitively real without first-hand knowledge of the subject.

 

[ananda]

No, you have experienced a woman who claims to be your mother unless you are saying that you remember your birth, being placed in her arms for the first time, and seeing her face when you first opened your eyes....and then of course you were there and witnessed the signing of your birth certificate, right? You remember seeing your parent(s) signing that piece of paper, correct? You would not just be depending on the fact that someone told you that they are your mother without objective proof, right? Like a birth certificate from some stranger in a building saying this is you? Maybe you are not even who you believe you are. Maybe you are somebody else....a figment of your own imagination...

You and I have different definitions of "mother" or "parent". A "birth certificate" is the legal reassignment of property (in this case, a child) to the certificate issuer.

 

[AV1611VET]

I wasn't there. You were not there. The authors of Acts and Corinthians were not there. I'd say that no one who was there wrote about it,

So it what? just materialized out of thin air?

 

[AV1611VET]

No, I am saying that I have no reason to believe anything is real without first-hand knowledge of the subject.

Serious question:

Do you believe your neighbor can drink a glass of water from your tap and survive?

Please answer this with a YES or NO.

Anything else, and I'll assume you're a scientist.

Thanks!