The ten commandments Old covenant, and the law "done away" and "abolished" as paul said

[Hank77]

If Jesus is this high priest, how can he be in compliance with the law?

bugkiller

How can He not be when it is His law? Does He say, "Do what I say, not as I do?"

 

[nomadictheist]

If you argue a Christian is obligated to the law you require it for salvation.

bugkiller

Absolute negative on that. Obedience is expected. Disobedience is forgiven, but obedience is to be our goal. I have not once argued that keeping the law is required for salvation. That would require perfect keeping of the law, which is impossible.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Some wrongly try to say the first covenant was not the ten commandments, they may say that the First Covenant that was abolished in Heb 8:13 was not the ten commandments. The ten Commandments and the Old Covenant are two different things.they are wrong

"27 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.28 And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."(Exodus 34:27,28 KJV)

"Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;" (Hebrews 9:1-4 KJV)

"13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone."(Deuteronomy 4;13 KJV)

etc etc

 

[bugkiller]

The Levites put the Commandments in the Ark itself, as they are the pillars of Godliness. Without them, there is no such thing as righteousness because there would be no foundation for righteousness to stand upon. The Ten Commandments are immutable by their very nature.

How can He not be when it is His law? Does He say, "Do what I say, not as I do?"

It isn't the law of Jesus. Jesus didn't give the law.

bugkiller

 

[LoveofTruth]

Why don't you quote the rest of it? This is a frequent occurrence with your "scripture references." They were not rebuked for keeping the commandment, but rather for failing to keep it and adhering rather to their own tradition:

"For Moses said,‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God) —12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother,13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

According to the Bible, it was not just the ten commandments written on the stone tablets, but the entirety of the law of the old covenant - to include the atonement rituals. That is why the old covenant is called the "ministration of death." Because it could never save and could only point to the One who could save.

But I guess I'll believe you and start neglecting all the commandments of God, since they're now null and void and I can decide for myself what serving God means. After all, since His Spirit dwells in us, we can conveniently discard anything God's law says about it, because that's all null and void.

The pharisees were condemned in Mark for "making void the word of God by tradition." But I guess it's ok to do that today.

No what the Pharisees did was to add man made traiditons to the word of God. And as i said they were still under the law as Jesus was and they still were under the old Covenant and had to do all until Jesus fulfilled it.

No believer will kill or covet our do anything that is sinful as they abide in Christ. They are in a new and living way of Gods love written in their heart . This law of the Spirit of life is not the old law in stone or the old covenant of Moses ten commandments. As I keep showing you the ten commandments are done away and abolished. the word for abolished in Greek is used many times even in 2 Cor 3. You just dont understand and give the classic Seventh day Adventist argument and say "so can i now kill and commit adultery etc?" No a believer walks in the love that fulfills the law.

 

[nomadictheist]

If Jesus is this high priest, how can he be in compliance with the law?

bugkiller

What do you not understand about the levitical law and the sacrificial rites being separate from God's law? These were the way that sin was atoned for under the old covenant. Before Jesus came to be the only sacrifice that could truly atone for sins, these earthly high priests were selected from the tribe of Levi because that tribe was to be set apart to serve God. That's why they went through all their purification rituals. These were not to make them spiritually clean, but to point to the sacrifice that could make us spiritually clean.

Now we who believe are set apart to serve God. We are a "royal priesthood," and our High Priest is Jesus. The old covenant established by the blood of bulls, lambs, and goats has been replaced by the new covenant established by the blood of Jesus. The levitical priesthood no longer exists because there is no longer the complete separation from God that existed under the old covenant. The priesthood was to act as the intermediary between God and man. Now Jesus does that.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Why don't you quote the rest of it? This is a frequent occurrence with your "scripture references." They were not rebuked for keeping the commandment, but rather for failing to keep it and adhering rather to their own tradition:

"For Moses said,‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God) —12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother,13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

According to the Bible, it was not just the ten commandments written on the stone tablets, but the entirety of the law of the old covenant - to include the atonement rituals. That is why the old covenant is called the "ministration of death." Because it could never save and could only point to the One who could save.

But I guess I'll believe you and start neglecting all the commandments of God, since they're now null and void and I can decide for myself what serving God means. After all, since His Spirit dwells in us, we can conveniently discard anything God's law says about it, because that's all null and void.

The pharisees were condemned in Mark for "making void the word of God by tradition." But I guess it's ok to do that today.

and by the way i quoted that part for this reason

"
and that covenant was connected to Moses and the ten commandments

Mk 7:9-10 For Moses said, "Honor your father and your mother"

part of the ten commandments and this is also done away and abolished as we read"

you seemed to miss my point

are you trying to say that the Old Covenant is not part of the ten commandments that are abolished and done away and decayed and vanishing away waxing old etc?

 

[bugkiller]

Absolute negative on that. Obedience is expected. Disobedience is forgiven, but obedience is to be our goal. I have not once argued that keeping the law is required for salvation. That would require perfect keeping of the law, which is impossible.

Show me where keeping the law is required of Christians with a passage from the Bible.

bugkiller

 

[nomadictheist]

No what the Pharisees did was to add man made traiditons to the word of God. And as i said they were still under the law as Jesus was and they still were under the old Covenant and had to do all until Jesus fulfilled it.

No believer will kill or covet our do anything that is sinful as they abide in Christ. They are in a new and living way of Gods love written in their heart . This law of the Spirit of life is not the old law in stone or the old covenant of Moses ten commandments. As I keep showing you the ten commandments are done away and abolished. the word for abolished in Greek is used many times even in 2 Cor 3. You just dont understand and give the classic Seventh day Adventist argument and say "so can i now kill and commit adultery etc?" No a believer walks in the love that fulfills the law.

If they're abolished and done away with then why do they still exist?

Why do you ignore the teachings of Christ?

What is sin? (I'll give you a hint, it's the transgression of the law)

So if nobody will sin as they abide in Christ, that means nobody will transgress (break) the law if they abide in Christ. I agree. If you abide in Christ, you will keep God's commandments.

You have shown nothing about the ten commandments and the law being abolished. You have frequently displayed the verses that proclaim the old covenant being abolished and frequently ignored the verses where we are instructed to keep the commandments of God. The fact that you ignore (or try to explain away by quoting Paul incorrectly) the words of Jesus shows the truth of your doctrine.

 

[bugkiller]

What do you not understand about the levitical law and the sacrificial rites being separate from God's law? These were the way that sin was atoned for under the old covenant. Before Jesus came to be the only sacrifice that could truly atone for sins, these earthly high priests were selected from the tribe of Levi because that tribe was to be set apart to serve God. That's why they went through all their purification rituals. These were not to make them spiritually clean, but to point to the sacrifice that could make us spiritually clean.

Now we who believe are set apart to serve God. We are a "royal priesthood," and our High Priest is Jesus. The old covenant established by the blood of bulls, lambs, and goats has been replaced by the new covenant established by the blood of Jesus. The levitical priesthood no longer exists because there is no longer the complete separation from God that existed under the old covenant. The priesthood was to act as the intermediary between God and man. Now Jesus does that.

Then the law is changed and the common argument falsely based on Mat 5 is a lie.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

If they're abolished and done away with then why do they still exist?

Why do you ignore the teachings of Christ?

What is sin? (I'll give you a hint, it's the transgression of the law)

So if nobody will sin as they abide in Christ, that means nobody will transgress (break) the law if they abide in Christ. I agree. If you abide in Christ, you will keep God's commandments.

You have shown nothing about the ten commandments and the law being abolished. You have frequently displayed the verses that proclaim the old covenant being abolished and frequently ignored the verses where we are instructed to keep the commandments of God. The fact that you ignore (or try to explain away by quoting Paul incorrectly) the words of Jesus shows the truth of your doctrine.

Because we aren't promoting annihilation of the 10 Cs.

bugkiller

 

[LoveofTruth]

If they're abolished and done away with then why do they still exist?

Why do you ignore the teachings of Christ?

What is sin? (I'll give you a hint, it's the transgression of the law)

So if nobody will sin as they abide in Christ, that means nobody will transgress (break) the law if they abide in Christ. I agree. If you abide in Christ, you will keep God's commandments.

You have shown nothing about the ten commandments and the law being abolished. You have frequently displayed the verses that proclaim the old covenant being abolished and frequently ignored the verses where we are instructed to keep the commandments of God. The fact that you ignore (or try to explain away by quoting Paul incorrectly) the words of Jesus shows the truth of your doctrine.

I have shown you many times but you have a veil on the heart it seems.

The law is still good to use for showing sin and other aspects. But the law is not made for a righteous man, and for believers it is done away and abolished in its ministration which is a ministration of death and condemnation 2 ZCor 3. Also believers are dead to the law and free from the law.

You try, (though wrongly) to seperate the old covenant and the ten commandments. But I showed clearly that the ten commandments are the old covenant that is abolished and done away. When I speaka of the OLD COVENANT i am speaking about the Law of Moses and the ten commandments particularly.


Some wrongly try to say the first covenant was not the ten commandments, they may say that the First Covenant that was abolished in Heb 8:13 was not the ten commandments. They say that the ten Commandments and the Old Covenant are two different things.they are wrong

"27 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.28 And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."(Exodus 34:27,28 KJV)

"Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;" (Hebrews 9:1-4 KJV)

"13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone."(Deuteronomy 4;13 KJV)

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

etc etc

Is abolished referring to the tables of stone in the ten commandments and the old covenant which is the ten commandments basically.

IT doesnt get much clearer folks !!!

2 Chronicles 6:11: "And there I have set the ark, in which is the covenant of the Lord, which He made with the sons of Israel."

 

[nomadictheist]

Show me where keeping the law is required of Christians with a passage from the Bible.

bugkiller

"For whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do so, will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does and keeps them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."

"And this is love: that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome"

"If you love Me, keep My commandments."

"And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

 

[Hank77]

But I guess I'll believe you and start neglecting all the commandments of God, since they're now null and void and I can decide for myself what serving God means. After all, since His Spirit dwells in us, we can conveniently discard anything God's law says about it, because that's all null and void.

How could one, who has the commandments, that Yeshua gave, written on their hearts, disregard them? He said all the Law and the Prophets hang on those two commandments. Not that those two commandments hang on the Law.
I don't know of any time in the history of the world that men had covenant laws that did not hang on these two commandments.

 

[LoveofTruth]

"For whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do so, will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does and keeps them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."

"And this is love: that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome"

"If you love Me, keep My commandments."

"And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

Jesus would say did not Moses say ...but I say unto you

Jesus commandments are different than Moses for the church.

 

[nomadictheist]

I have shown you many times but you have a veil on the heart it seems.

The law is still good to use for showing sin and other aspects. But the law is not made for a righteous man, and for believers it is done away and abolished in its ministration which is a ministration of death and condemnation 2 ZCor 3. Also believers are dead to the law and free from the law.

You try, (though wrongly) to seperate the old covenant and the ten commandments. But I showed clearly that the ten commandments are the old covenant that is abolished and done away. When I speaka of the OLD COVENANT i am speaking about the Law of Moses and the ten commandments particularly.


Some wrongly try to say the first covenant was not the ten commandments, they may say that the First Covenant that was abolished in Heb 8:13 was not the ten commandments. The ten Commandments and the Old Covenant are two different things.they are wrong

"27 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.28 And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."(Exodus 34:27,28 KJV)

"Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;" (Hebrews 9:1-4 KJV)

"13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone."(Deuteronomy 4;13 KJV)

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

etc etc

Is abolished referring to the tables of stone in the ten commandments and the old covenant which is the ten commandments basically.

IT doesnt get much clearer folks !!!

It would help if you understood middle English and late middle English, in which the version of the Bible version you love so much was written.

The phrase "after the tenor of" in middle English to late middle English means "based on." So God made the old covenant "based on" the ten commandments. These commandments were not in themselves the old covenant. The old covenant (as Hebrews says) included the sacrificial rites, the requirement for an earthly tabernacle (later temple), purification rites for those offering the sacrifices, and so forth.

"Whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever does and teaches them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

It doesn't get much clearer, folks.

 

[Hank77]

It isn't the law of Jesus. Jesus didn't give the law.

bugkiller

He didn't give the two commandments? Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. That James refers to as the Royal law of love.

 

[nomadictheist]

Jesus would say did not Moses say ...but I say unto you

Jesus commandments are different than Moses for the church.

Why don't you finish the quotes out...

Jesus commandments weren't different, he was showing them how they broke the commandments of God without actually committing a physical action (lust--->adultery, hatred--->murder, love of money---->idolatry, etc.).

"Whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments[refer back--->"I have not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it"] and teaches others to do so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever does and teaches them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

 

[Hank77]

Jesus would say did not Moses say ...but I say unto you

Jesus commandments are different than Moses for the church.

Now you are mixing things up a bit, I think. Who are you calling the Body of Christ? The Body of Christ exists on both sides of the cross.

 

[LoveofTruth]

These commandments were not in themselves the old covenant.

how much more clear do you need it., you greatly error here

"9 When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the Lord made with you, ..."(Deuteronomy 9:9 KJV)

"13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone."(Deuteronomy 4;13 KJV)

2 Chronicles 6:11: "And there I have set the ark, in which is the covenant of the Lord, which He made with the sons of Israel."

"21 And I have set there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of the Lord, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt."(1 Kings 8:21 KJV)

I could go on, it is so clear to the unbiased reader. The veil is on the heart in reading the OT for many as Paul says. They just cannot see it

and "after the tenor" means after the mouth or words spoken, speech. You twist again in a desperate attempt to hang on to straws as your doctrine is failing it seems.