God's LAW has not ended -- according to the Bible

[BobRyan]

God's Law remains for the lost -- still condemning all the world as sinners in need of a Savior.

God's law remains in the NEW Covenant for the saints "written on the mind and heart".

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Paul says that "step 1" for the unbeliever is to admit that you are a sinner as defined by the LAW of God - that still is binding to this very day. God's Law defines what sin is - and so it tells the lost - they have a problem.

And Paul says - the Law of God STILL does that work -


Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

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And for the saved -- the "LAW is written on the mind and on the heart" -- Heb 8:7-10

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.


"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Or can we dismiss these texts in favor of equivocating between the Old Covenant and the Law of God such that God's commandments are to be "Abolished".

But definately the Sabbath is not for today and the ten commandment which are the Old Covenant are abolished done away, waxed old, vanished, decayed, etc etc

NEW Covenant:
Jer 31:31-33 "I will write my LAW on their mind and heart" -- same Law - but different context.

Rejecting that infallible truth could lead to rejecting almost all of scripture itself. OT, Gospels, and any NT text quoting the OT.

It doesn't matter if the whole world goes against 2 Corinthians 3. Paul wrote the truth there by the Spirit of God. Showing clearly that the tables of stones, from Moses, ( the ten commandments_ are done away for believers and abolished.

I guess what pPaul wrote in that chapter is related to today as well, he said their minds were blinded in reading the Old Testament. Interesting he refers to the whole old testament even.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are
Commandments of God Neh 10:29
Law of God ; Neh 10:29
Word of God Mark 7:13
Commandment of GodMark 7:6-13
NT ScriptureJames 2:8
NT Law James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Neh 10:29 is a great example. - The Commandments of God are specifically inclusive of the 7th day Sabbath and called the "Law of God" as given by Moses on Sinai.

29 these joined with their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse and an oath to walk in God’s Law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and His ordinances and His statutes: 30 We would not give our daughters as wives to the peoples of the land, nor take their daughters for our sons; 31 if the peoples of the land brought wares or any grain to sell on the Sabbath day, we would not buy it from them on the Sabbath, or on a holy day; and we would forego the seventh year’s produce and the exacting of every debt.

Which Paul insists as the Ten Commandments written on stone. 2 Cor 3
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,


Eph 6:2 the 5th Commandment to Honor Parents = FIRST commandment with a promise in that UNIT of Ten.
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:


James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[BobRyan]

NT saints still show that they Love God - when they "Keep God's commandments".

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

According to the Bible that "cannot keep God's Law" scenario is the case for the lost

And so then what about "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2 -- does it free us to take God's name in vain to be set free from the "Law of Sin and death" or does it simply refer to Romans 7

Romans 7
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2

What a mistake then to equate the Law of God that Paul agrees with - (that includes the TEN Commandments according to Rom 7) -- into the "Law of sin"


Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (KJV)

Rom 8 (NKJV)
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8 (NASB)
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ's doctrine on "sola scriptura testing" - resulted in hammering the traditions of the Jewish magisterium of His day and promoting the authority of the Word of God - yes even as found in the Ten Commandments.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

The elders consisting of scribes and pharise es are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .


Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)

...

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Some will argue that true Christians should not obey the teaching of Christ before the cross because... that was before the cross.
33 minutes ago #486

Matt 28: 16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

Which is what Matthew, Mark, Luke and John do ... AFTER the cross -- in their Gospels. (They don't rehearse just how it is you sacrifice an animal "as if" this is what Christ taught them that whole time.)

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Which is at a time before the cross - when the Lord's Day is most certainly the Sabbath - the 7th day of the week.

"the Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:27
And "The Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58

Isaiah 58

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy Day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,


QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68473931,

...commentary on the Baltimore Catechism -

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

Proof that this view has been around ... for a while.


1946

In the Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.


1566

In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,

The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday!
p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937. (First published in 1566)
​

amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

=================================================

As Pope John Paul II argues that "continued" view for the Sabbath Commandment - bent to point to week-day-1


Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Notice how well that statement above fits with the other Christian groups on this topic - as noted below in the signature line?

 

[BobRyan]

Notice the phrase "under the law" as it condemns the entire world.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.






What then of the saints - that are not "under" that condemnation? "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 even for the saints - so ... shall they simply choose sin?


Romans 6

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

...

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
...
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Galatians 5:18New Living Translation (NLT)
18 But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses.

 

[BobRyan]

ahhh yes.. the "living Bible" -

yet even it -- includes James 2.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty



James 2 - NLT -

8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

(That is quote of Lev 19:18 -- the Law of Moses)


9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.
10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

(There we see the law of Moses called "God's Laws")

11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

That is quote of Moses' law - in Ex 20 - spoken by God Himself.

Even in the OT the gentiles are said to be under the Law of God when it comes to the moral law and the Ten Commandments -- even the Sabbath Commandments.

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

Is 56:2-7
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

 

[Sophrosyne]

ahhh yes.. the "living Bible" -

No.... New Living Translation. I have a Living Bible and it isn't the same translation.
I see from the rest of your post (of which I deleted from quoting) that you dismiss this blatant in your face refutation of your premise here and
search for scripture to try and contradict it instead of dealing with it.

 

[SAAN]

That means all of these are still valid then: Sabbath & Feast Days

Leviticus 23 New King James Version (NKJV)
Feasts of the Lord
23 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, theseare My feasts.

The Sabbath
3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

The Passover and Unleavened Bread
4 ‘These are the feasts of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it. 8 But you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord for seven days. The seventh day shall be a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it.’”

The Feast of Firstfruits
9 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When you come into the land which I give to you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest. 11 He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted on your behalf; on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 And you shall offer on that day, when you wave the sheaf, a male lamb of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering to theLord. 13 Its grain offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering made by fire to the Lord, for a sweet aroma; and its drink offering shall beof wine, one-fourth of a hin. 14 You shall eat neither bread nor parched grain nor fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

The Feast of Weeks
15 ‘And you shall count for yourselves from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering: seven Sabbaths shall be completed.16 Count fifty days to the day after the seventh Sabbath; then you shall offer a new grain offering to the Lord. 17 You shall bring from your dwellings two wave loaves of two-tenths of an ephah. They shall be of fine flour; they shall be baked with leaven.They are the firstfruits to the Lord. 18 And you shall offer with the bread seven lambs of the first year, without blemish, one young bull, and two rams. They shall be as a burnt offering to the Lord, with their grain offering and their drink offerings, an offering made by fire for a sweet aroma to the Lord. 19 Then you shall sacrifice one kid of the goats as a sin offering, and two male lambs of the first year as a sacrifice of a peace offering. 20 The priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits as a wave offering before the Lord, with the two lambs. They shall be holy to the Lord for the priest. 21 And you shall proclaim on the same day that it is a holy convocation to you. You shall do no customary work on it. It shall be a statute forever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

22 ‘When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field when you reap, nor shall you gather any gleaning from your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the stranger: I am the Lord your God.’”

The Feast of Trumpets
23 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 24 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a sabbath-rest, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation. 25 You shall do no customary work on it; and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord.’”

The Day of Atonement
26 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 27 “Also the tenth day of this seventh monthshall be the Day of Atonement. It shall be a holy convocation for you; you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. 28 And you shall do no work on that same day, for it is the Day of Atonement, to make atonement for you before the Lord your God. 29 For any person who is not afflicted in soul on that same day shall be cut off from his people. 30 And any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. 31 You shall do no manner of work;it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 Itshall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninthday of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.”

The Feast of Tabernacles
33 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 34 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the Lord. 35 On the first day there shall be a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work on it. 36 For seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to theLord. On the eighth day you shall have a holy convocation, and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. It is a sacred assembly, and you shall do no customary work on it.

37 ‘These are the feasts of the Lord which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the Lord, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day— 38 besides the Sabbaths of theLord, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the Lord.

39 ‘Also on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, you shall keep the feast of the Lord for seven days; on the first daythere shall be a sabbath-rest, and on the eighth day a sabbath-rest. 40 And you shall take for yourselves on the first day the fruit of beautiful trees, branches of palm trees, the boughs of leafy trees, and willows of the brook; and you shall rejoice before theLord your God for seven days. 41 You shall keep it as a feast to the Lord for seven days in the year. It shall be a statute forever in your generations. You shall celebrate it in the seventh month. 42 You shall dwell in booths for seven days. All who are native Israelites shall dwell in booths, 43 that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel dwell in booths when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I amthe Lord your God.’”

44 So Moses declared to the children of Israel the feasts of the Lord.


Notice how God said they are his feasts and not the Jews!!!

 

[BobRyan]

James 2 - NLT -

8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

(That is quote of Lev 19:18 -- the Law of Moses)


9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.
10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

(There we see the law of Moses called "God's Laws")

11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

That is quote of Moses' law - in Ex 20 - spoken by God Himself.

No.... New Living Translation. I have a Living Bible and it isn't the same translation.
I see from the rest of your post (of which I deleted from quoting) that you dismiss this blatant in your face refutation of your premise here and
search for scripture to try and contradict it instead of dealing with it.

That is the NLT being quoted -- thought you might enjoy it since you seem to prefer the NLT, and it appears to answer the question you had.

No wonder then that the Sabbath even applies to gentiles -

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68460583, member: 235244"]QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68458633, "]

Acts 13 -- gentiles keeping the Sabbath.
Acts 17 - gentiles keeping the Sabbath
Acts 18 - gentiles keeping the Sabbath

Is 56 is a special promise given to gentiles who keep the Sabbath.

Thus says the Lord:


“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

We "gentiles" like to think that we are a big important part of "mankind" -- as it turns out.

[/QUOTE]

 

[BobRyan]

That means all of these are still valid then: Sabbath & Feast Days

Leviticus 23 New King James Version (NKJV)
Feasts of the Lord
23 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, theseare My feasts.

The Sabbath
3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

The Passover and Unleavened Bread
4 ‘These are the feasts of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it. 8 But you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord for seven days. The seventh day shall be a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it.’”
...

Hebrews 10 addresses the animal sacrifice-based annual feasts and a blood sacrifice offering.

Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,


“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

 

[SAAN]

Hebrews 10 addresses the animal sacrifice-based annual feasts and a blood sacrifice offering.

Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,


“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Yeah animal sacrifices were replaced with Jesus blood, so thats what covers our sins now, but all the feats days are still valid if the law hasnt ended. Jesus himself said to keep the Passover and there are several examples in the NT where Paul was keeping the Feat days.

Here are examples of 5 of the 7 feasts being kept.


Day of Pentecost

Acts 2:1

2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord[a] in one place.

-How did the receive the holy spirit after Jesus died? They were observing the Day of Petencost that Sunday.

Acts 20:16
16 For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the Day of Pentecost.
-Paul was hurry to observe this feast and Jesus has been dead for years.

1 Corinthians 16:8
8 But I will tarry in Ephesus until Pentecost.
-Paul is keeping this feast in Ephesus.

Passover and Unleavened Bread
Acts 20:6
6 But we sailed away from Philippi after the Days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days joined them at Troas, where we stayed seven days.

-Why even mention it if its not being kept at all?


1 Corinthians 5:7-8
7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.[a] 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
-Paul here is telling the New Testament Christians to keep the Passover and Unleavened bread
1 Corinthians 11:23-25
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat;[a] this is My body which is broken[b] for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

-Paul is describing the New Testament Passover service, that Jesus established with His disciples on the night before His crucifixion. From the above passages we see that Paul commanded the Gentiles in the city of Corinth to keep Gods Holy Days.

Acts 12:1-4
12 Now about that time Herod the king stretched out his hand to harass some from the church. 2 Then he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3 And because he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to seize Peter also. Now it was during the Days of Unleavened Bread. 4 So when he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him, intending to bring him before the people after Passover.

-Verse 3 shows that they were keeping the Passover and Unleavened bread




Feast of Taberncales

Acts 18:20-21
20 When they asked him to stay a longer time with them, he did not consent, 21 but took leave of them, saying, “I must by all means keep this coming feast in Jerusalem;[a] but I will return again to you, God willing.” And he sailed from Ephesus.

The Day of Atonement

Acts 27:9-10
9 Now when much time had been spent, and sailing was now dangerous because the Fast was already over, Paul advised them, 10 saying, “Men, I perceive that this voyage will end with disaster and much loss, not only of the cargo and ship, but also our lives.”
-Paul is referring to the Fast on the Day of Atonement. Luke wrote the book of Acts many years after Christ’s death and he referred to the Day of Atonement calling it the “Fast”

 

[BobRyan]

Yeah animal sacrifices were replaced with Jesus blood, so thats what covers our sins now, but all the feats days are still valid if the law hasnt ended.

The moral law of God remains - that is true.

The animal sacrifices are very specifically specified in the ceremonial law for keeping the ceremonial feast days.

God Himself then tells us in Heb 10 that those animal sacrifices have ended.

Jesus himself said to keep the Passover

Did He say gentiles are supposed to keep Passover??

and there are several examples in the NT where Paul was keeping the Feat days.
Here are examples of 5 of the 7 feasts being kept.

I agree with that - but where does Paul say that gentiles are keeping those annual feasts and how are they doing passover without the passover lamb?

Most of even the pro-sunday scholars point out that the Commandments begin in Eden including the Sabbath commandment - for all mankind.

Gen 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on The seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed The Sabbath day and made it holy.

John 5:17
17 But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”

Ex 16
23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of The Holy Sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is the Sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is The Sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
29 See, for that the Lord hath given you The Sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[BobRyan]

so then God's Law is NOT ended and the Bible evidence for this fact as noted on this first page - is irrefutable.

And of Course Christ - God the Son is "God at Sinai" giving the Ten Commandments -- the covenant written in stone.

Hebrews 8
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
A New Covenant

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.


John 14:10
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12:49
"For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"If you Love Me Keep My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:5
'the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

==============================


Or can we dismiss these texts in favor of equivocating between the Old Covenant and the Law of God such that God's commandments are to be "Abolished".

But definately the Sabbath is not for today and the ten commandment which are the Old Covenant are abolished done away, waxed old, vanished, decayed, etc etc

NEW Covenant:
Jer 31:31-33 "I will write my LAW on their mind and heart" -- same Law - but different context.

 

[BobRyan]

Does the gospel require me to teach Sabbath and the law to unbelievers?

I think the case could be made that those NT sources on this thread - affirm the point of their Bible having 66 books and that the Law that defines sin - and declares our need of Salvation - is key to Gospel evangelism. So also the "Good news" that once we accept Christ and are born again - under the "New Covenant" the "LAW of God is written on the heart and mind"


hence -- NT support for God's commandments --

NT saints still show that they Love God - when they "Keep God's commandments".

"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12[/QUOTE]

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6

According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

According to the Bible that "cannot keep God's Law" scenario is the case for the lost

Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.[/QUOTE]


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty[/QUOTE]

 

[JohnRabbit]

excellent work BobRyan!

you are a staunch stewart for the Lord!

 

[Cribstyl]

I think the case could be made that those NT sources on this thread - affirm the point of their Bible having 66 books and that the Law that defines sin - and declares our need of Salvation - is key to Gospel evangelism. So also the "Good news" that once we accept Christ and are born again - under the "New Covenant" the "LAW of God is written on the heart and mind"

Say What??? NT source are the writers of the New Testament. Your signature has been discussed over and over in previous threads. You continue to avoid showing that scriptures is where answers on doctrine are found.

 

[SAAN]

The moral law of God remains - that is true.

The animal sacrifices are very specifically specified in the ceremonial law for keeping the ceremonial feast days.

God Himself then tells us in Heb 10 that those animal sacrifices have ended.



Did He say gentiles are supposed to keep Passover??



I agree with that - but where does Paul say that gentiles are keeping those annual feasts and how are they doing passover without the passover lamb?

Jesus didnt say he came for the gentiles, he came for the lost house of Israel. This is why when we get saved we are grafted into Israel, not the other way around.

Using that logic we can ask, where did Jesus say the gentiles are supposed to keep the Sabbath?

Many people keep Passover now and they dont have to kill a lamb. Its like saying how does one keep Easter without Easter ham.

There is no such thing as rules for Gentiles and rules for Jews, as they worship the same God and are help to the same set of standards. Remember this thread is titled, Gods LAW has not ended and if it hasnt, it is impossible to separate the Feast Days from the LAW or Sabbath days in general and why they are included along with the Sabbath in Lev 23

 

[bugkiller]

God's Law remains for the lost -- still condemning all the world as sinners in need of a Savior.

God's law remains in the NEW Covenant for the saints "written on the mind and heart".

======================================================

Paul says that "step 1" for the unbeliever is to admit that you are a sinner as defined by the LAW of God - that still is binding to this very day. God's Law defines what sin is - and so it tells the lost - they have a problem.

And Paul says - the Law of God STILL does that work -


Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Yes that's correct. The law is for those under the law. Since this is mentioned and emphasized by you, exactly who are those under the law? Rom 7:6 says we're delivered from the law which includes the speaker Paul and is plural which includes more than just him. Paul identifies himself as a Jew which shouldn't be in question. So doesn't that include even the Jew?

I Tim 1 says the law isn't the righteous. If the Christians isn't righteous who would that be?

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

What death is pAul talking about since he is obviously alive? And why did Paul die?

=====================================

And for the saved -- the "LAW is written on the mind and on the heart" -- Heb 8:7-10

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

No because of I Tim 1:8-10. Anyone w2ho can read English can easily see from the above quote that Christians don't have the law aka the 10 Cs written pn their heart.

"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

Now what? Do you intend for us to believe the above verse means obligation to keep the law? No one here that I've read promotes the law doesn't exist.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

That's right in your thinking, we don't need Jesus to gain entranced to heaven. If that is so why does Jesus say otherwise in John 10? and why didn't the young man of Mat 19 leave rejoicing? He testified he kept the law and Jesus didn't contradict him.

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

You and John are talking about different commandments. See John 1:17 and 15:10.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

This means you're guilty and don't have any salvation because you don't keep all the law. I invite you to accept what Jesus provides and stop relying on the law as part of the requirements of salvation. There's nothing in the Bible saying Jesus and the law provide salvation.

bugkiller