The ten commandments Old covenant, and the law "done away" and "abolished" as paul said

[bugkiller]

They did, and not only the ten, but all the commandments.

Only if all Christians were Jews.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

And Jesus' words are NOT from Acts, so as I said, Non-answer.

But you ask a question making fools of us we both know isn't there. You intention is to lead others astray.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Hebrews is what gave me a more complete understanding of the whole scheme of things. Hebrews 7, is major scripture and not hard to understand.
Heb 7:11 If indeed, then, perfection were through the Levitical priesthood--for the people under it had received law--what further need, according to the order of Melchisedek, for another priest to arise, and not to be called according to the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 for the priesthood being changed, of necessity also, of the law a change doth come,

This may be a similar concept, if I am understanding it correctly....
Under the Law someone could be sent to a sanctuary city. They were protected from the revenge from others, but if they left there they did so at their own risk. UNTIL, the high priest changed. When the high priest changed they could leave and expect the same protections as anyone else. So when the high priest changed, that law as it related to them, changed.

I see the Law of Moses rather like that sanctuary city, a place of protection. UNTIL, there was a change in the priesthood.

Jesus couldn't be this high priest or any other under the law. The verse remains the law is changed, in this case done away with. This means the argument presented from Mat 5 fails.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68417716,]In Romans 7 Paul says that the LAW defines sin for "US" and in Gal 3 and Romans 3 - Paul says that the "US" in that case is "the entire world".

The condemnation of the LAW is the reference for Romans 7:6.

And as for Romans 6 --

Who is the "WE" in Romans 6? The context for Romans 7.
Did this get answered - on the way to Romans 7???


1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.[/QUOTE]

You miss Paul's point altogether. Paul addresses sin and not the law .
bugkiller

The Bible says "sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
Paul says "where there is no law neither is there sin" Romans 4.

And Paul says in Romans 3 and in Romans 7 -- the Law defines what sin is.

 

[Meowzltov]

No Jesus doesn't say keep the law AKA the 10 Cs.

Yes he does say to keep the commandments, in the sermon on the mount Matthew 5:17-20. In fact, there is no evidence it is limited to the ten. IN FACT, according to Matthew 23, it even includes the ORAL torah.

 

[Meowzltov]

Doesn't matter because the minority is included.

bugkiller

the Majority's problems are addressed. if these problems apply to the minority, fine. if not, oh well.

 

[Meowzltov]

No its not we that have determined a requirement to follow (obligated to) the law. It is the pro law camp adding to the free gift making it wages. This simply can't be done.

I see that you avoided the question. Very telling.

 

[Meowzltov]

No Peter is being the emotional Peter we all know and following fear and sinning.

Sheesh. The point is what is he being fearful about and what precisely is his sin?

 

[Meowzltov]

Only if all Christians were Jews.

Of course. We agree, my friend.

 

[Meowzltov]

But you ask a question making fools of us we both know isn't there. You intention is to lead others astray.

My intention is to lead you to the truth. Your "lead others astray" remark is flaming and you are lucky I haven't reported you.

 

[Hank77]

Jesus couldn't be this high priest or any other under the law. The verse remains the law is changed, in this case done away with. This means the argument presented from Mat 5 fails.

bugkiller

Excuse me? Jesus is the new High Priest and when the high priest changes there is a change in the law. Did you not understand my post?

 

[nomadictheist]

You're correct to say it's an apparent misunderstanding. The ones with the misunderstanding are those who are ignorant to the fact that Jesus is confirming all that Moses and the prophets wrote.

I could also point out that you changed the word "fail" to "perish" for a reason. Yes..the scriptures does reiterate that; if a dot or comma changes from what's written, then God's words to would fail. You, like many are focused on the glow of the ten and not understanding references to the entire scriptures.
Did Moses write in the law that the covenant is the ten commandments? YES
Is it not also spelled out in Jeremiah that God will give a new covenant unlike the one given the fathers? YES
THESE 2 MAJOR FACTS ARE ARGUED AWAY FROM WEAK CHRISTIANS. but it's written.
Luke16:16-17 Jesus is confirming that God's word (written in the law) will not fail. Paul also confirms that, written in the law and the prophets; God will call for righteousness without the law.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets

Really?? If you don't add to where Paul taught about being free from the law. You should be saying that the law cannot make you free from sin or death. Somehow you're teaching on the law's relationship to salvation in order to uphold your doctrine over what is written. (ripping my tunic)
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:



The truth is not that complicated. Being free from the law and being dead to the law is really about the covenant you're under. It's explained by Paul as: your wife being dead and you're married to another. Somehow you see the law alive and don't understand the one who died for you. Dude you cant have two lovers.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to argue.

As I explained before (and can again if you like), being free from the law means being no longer bound by it to death. That doesn't mean that the law is no longer upheld as right and true.

Nor does it mean that we are required to follow the levitical law. That was a prescription for sacrifice, and since the only sacrifice that can truly save us has now been made to continue to offer sacrifices would be an affront to God.

Yes. What the law could not do (save anybody) Jesus did through His death and resurrection. This is talking about salvation. I have not once argued that the law is required for salvation. Only that the law is what is right, and therefore if we are truly being conformed into the image of God we will still be obedient to the law (not because it saves us, but because we are children being conformed into the image of the firstborn Son).

And you neglect in your "explanation" of the word "fail," also translated "perish" in some versions, that Jesus also says that "anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven." The Kingdom of Heaven is something that exists after Jesus sacrifice, not before. Therefore, Jesus is here reaffirming that the law is still what is right and good under the new covenant, but the means of justification (once the levitical system and sacrifice) has changed.

And this is Jesus talking. I will believe Him over you any day.

What you fail to understand is the distinction between the moral law and the justification/cleanliness laws. The law prescribes the levitical order to facilitate the forgiveness of sins through sacrifice. But the law failed because nobody could fully live in accordance with the law, even with sacrifices and offerings. Also, the blood of animals was never enough to cover sins, but was instituted in order to point to the only sacrifice that truly could cover sins.

There are far too many Christians who use our freedom from the law - that is, our freedom from the death that comes from being bound by the law - to try to excuse living lives of greed, adultery, idolatry, covetousness, promiscuity, and other things forbidden by God. As Paul said, "it is for freedom that Christ set us free." Not to revel in the works of the flesh.

You call it "weak Christians," but it is in reality maturity that allows you to grasp that being freed from the law does not make the law evil or wrong. The law still shows us God's standards, and as His children we are being conformed to those standards. And teaching people that it's ok to break those standards now will, as Jesus said, result in being least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

The Levites put the Commandments in the Ark itself, as they are the pillars of Godliness. Without them, there is no such thing as righteousness because there would be no foundation for righteousness to stand upon. The Ten Commandments are immutable by their very nature.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Levites put the Commandments in the Ark itself, as they are the pillars of Godliness. Without them, there is no such thing as righteousness because there would be no foundation for righteousness to stand upon. The Ten Commandments are immutable by their very nature.

Immutable, yes, but applicable to all people at all times in all places, no.

 

[Cribstyl]

I'm really not sure what you're trying to argue.

As I explained before (and can again if you like), being free from the law means being no longer bound by it to death. That doesn't mean that the law is no longer upheld as right and true.

Nor does it mean that we are required to follow the levitical law. That was a prescription for sacrifice, and since the only sacrifice that can truly save us has now been made to continue to offer sacrifices would be an affront to God.

Yes. What the law could not do (save anybody) Jesus did through His death and resurrection. This is talking about salvation. I have not once argued that the law is required for salvation. Only that the law is what is right, and therefore if we are truly being conformed into the image of God we will still be obedient to the law (not because it saves us, but because we are children being conformed into the image of the firstborn Son).

And you neglect in your "explanation" of the word "fail," also translated "perish" in some versions, that Jesus also says that "anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven." The Kingdom of Heaven is something that exists after Jesus sacrifice, not before. Therefore, Jesus is here reaffirming that the law is still what is right and good under the new covenant, but the means of justification (once the levitical system and sacrifice) has changed.

And this is Jesus talking. I will believe Him over you any day.

What you fail to understand is the distinction between the moral law and the justification/cleanliness laws. The law prescribes the levitical order to facilitate the forgiveness of sins through sacrifice. But the law failed because nobody could fully live in accordance with the law, even with sacrifices and offerings. Also, the blood of animals was never enough to cover sins, but was instituted in order to point to the only sacrifice that truly could cover sins.

There are far too many Christians who use our freedom from the law - that is, our freedom from the death that comes from being bound by the law - to try to excuse living lives of greed, adultery, idolatry, covetousness, promiscuity, and other things forbidden by God. As Paul said, "it is for freedom that Christ set us free." Not to revel in the works of the flesh.

You call it "weak Christians," but it is in reality maturity that allows you to grasp that being freed from the law does not make the law evil or wrong. The law still shows us God's standards, and as His children we are being conformed to those standards. And teaching people that it's ok to break those standards now will, as Jesus said, result in being least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Since you're doing all the talking....... carry on.

 

[Elder 111]

You misunders


You misunderstand all bievers have the law of the Spirit office in Christ Jesus that makes them free from the law of sin and death , go find out the difference of the two laws and how they are applied to men.

Also the law is not saying if you do this then you will be righteous . It is showing that men cannot walk in the love of of God in their present state and that they are not able to fulfill the law in their own righteousness, it exposes sin and brings them to the need of Gods righteousness . Then when they come to God by faith God dwells in them and makes them perfect unto every good work . God directly in believers not them following an outward tables of stone or trying to . The ministration of death and condemnation in tables of stone kills them it doesn't give life . And as Psul said the law is not made for a righteous man but for sinners

Still some wrongly desire to be teachers of the law and the veil is in the heart when reading the OT as Paul said in 2 Cor 3

So you are maintain that when God says "you should have no other god before me" that He is showing me that I can not serve Him alone. So He has removed that law that we will have hope. Is this your position?
How is a man righteous? Is it because he has faith only?

 

[Elder 111]

This is a hard issue for many. Because we can still use the law lawfully to expose sin etc as Paul said in 1 Timothy 1, many think that this means the law is still for us as righteous men. But Paul said the law is not made for a righteous man.

The law is done away, abolished, a ministration of death and condemnation, we are free from the law, dead to the law, not under the law, and the end of the law is charity out of a pure heart. By the law is the knowledge of sin. If there had been a law given that could have given life then Christ did not need to come.

Anyway God bless

What we faith to understand is that Paul speaks to the fact that a man who does not break the law is that affect by it. But the man who does is.
Simple as that. The one who drives within the speed limit is not affected by the traffic laws but the one that exceed the speed limit. It does not mean that the law is not there, it is, but the one that obeys is not condemned.

 

[Elder 111]

These were Jews and Gentile proselytes, not Christians.

You take the Bible out of context to condemn and get compliance to your false teaching. There's nothing in the NT or the words from Jesus requiring worship on the Venerable Day of Saturn. You've never quoted it yet for some reason. Why is this? I suggest it doesn't exist.

bugkiller

There is one called to worship on the venerable day of the SUN? On the day of BAAL? Did God bless, hallowed and Sanctify Sunday or Sabbath? Can you remove that which God has made sacred? We call ourselves followers of God but we are like those in Ezekiel 8:16.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The Levites put the Commandments in the Ark itself, as they are the pillars of Godliness. Without them, there is no such thing as righteousness because there would be no foundation for righteousness to stand upon. The Ten Commandments are immutable by their very nature.

No this is not right Abraham was before the mosaic law and he was accounted righteous

And

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. "(Galatians 3:21.22)

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

No this is not right Abraham was before the mosaic law and he was accounted righteous

And

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. "(Galatians 3:21.22)

Here's what you don't understand:
If you break the Ten Commandments, outright offend them all, are you righteous?

The answer is NO. So why are trying to deny the inevitable? They are God's Eternal Moral Law, stop trying to change that.