Job, saint or sinner, hero or villain?

[brinny]

You are kidding right? My last post I reference Job 2:3. I counted 34 verses referenced by me on this page alone. I couldn't find one verse that you posted on this page. You are kidding right?

These:

key verses where God converses with Satan as He describes Job, and the crucial verse where God Himself says to Satan that Job was afflicted without cause.

This is the basic for understanding the book of Job and Job himself, from God's perspective. It will clear up any confusion regarding any of the things you mention in your title of this thread here:

Job, saint or sinner, hero or villain?

Thank you kindly.

 

[thankfulttt]

These:



This is the basic for understanding the book of Job and Job himself, from God's perspective. It will clear up any c onfusion regarding any of the things you mention in your title of this thread here:

Job, saint or sinner, hero or villain?

Thank you kindly.

You want me to post your premises on the book of Job? Why don't you post them?

I would say the same to you that I have conveyed to Hank77, the following--

Key questions to ask about the book of Job.

1. Was Job born again in the beginning of the book? This would mean he had a personal relationship with God. That he was clothed in God's righteousness.

My answer is no.

2. Did the three friends ever lie?

My answer is no.

3. Was it God that was responsible for Job's affliction?

My answer is yes.

4. Was Elihu sent from God at Job's request?

My answer is yes.


If anyone has an interest in debating any one these points on a singular basis, meaning only one point at a time, please reply.

 

[brinny]

You want me to post your premises on the book of Job? Why don't you post them?

I would say the same to you that I have conveyed to Hank77, the following--

Key questions to ask about the book of Job.

1. Was Job born again in the beginning of the book? This would mean he had a personally relationship with God. That he was clothed in God's righteousness.

My answer is no.

2. Did the three friends ever lie?

My answer is no.

3. Was it God that was responsible for Job's affliction?

My answer is yes.

4. Was Elihu sent from God at Job's request?

My answer is yes.


If anyone has an interest in debating any one these points on a singular basis, meaning only one point at a time, please reply.

It's God's premise that i am referring to, not mine. That's why i'm referring to those specific Bible verses where God described Job and where it is clarified that all that occurred against Job was without cause, according to God.

re: #1, what are you basing that on?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Hank77]

I would say the same to you that I have conveyed to Hank77, the following--

I decline. You gave a challenge about chapters 38-41, I post about them, you don't address that post. You ask more questions. I'm no longer interested, thanks.

 

[thankfulttt]

I decline. You gave a challenge about chapters 38-41, I post about them, you don't address that post. You ask more questions. I'm no longer interested, thanks.

Hank your first statement related to the words of Eliphaz. For an orderly discussion I presented four topics. The second topic would cover Eliphaz's speech. I am sorry if I offended you for not covering your posting, but I cannot reply properly without knowing if you believe some of Eliphaz's words, or all of them.

 

[thankfulttt]

It's God's premise that i am referring to, not mine. That's why i'm referring to those specific Bible verses where God described Job and where it is clarified that all that occurred against Job was without cause, according to God.

re: #1, what are you basing that on?

Thank you kindly.

When God said Satan moved him against Job without cause it only pertained to the first test. You cannot apply that statement for the second test, or to the rest of the book.

 

[brinny]

It's God's premise that i am referring to, not mine. That's why i'm referring to those specific Bible verses where God described Job and where it is clarified that all that occurred against Job was without cause, according to God.

re: #1, what are you basing that on?

Thank you kindly.

When God said Satan moved him against Job without cause it only pertained to the first test. You cannot apply that statement for the second test, or to the rest of the book.

Is this your response to #1 that you posted? See below:

1. Was Job born again in the beginning of the book? This would mean he had a personally relationship with God. That he was clothed in God's righteousness.

My answer is no.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Hank77]

Hank your first statement related to the words of Eliphaz. For an orderly discussion I presented four topics. The second topic would cover Eliphaz's speech. I am sorry if I offended you for not covering your posting, but I cannot reply properly without knowing if you believe some of Eliphaz's words, or all of them.

No worries, you didn't offend me in the slightest.

 

[thankfulttt]

Chapter 38
2“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
This is really the only things God says About Job. That he was talking about things that he had no knowledge of.
Verses 3-41 is the list of things that God did/does that Job had no knowledge of.
Chapter 39
Verses 1-30 God is still telling Job about the things he had no knowledge of.

Hank you are right I could have answered this post, but not in one posting. It will take a number of postings.

The key to this chapter is God stating that Job was without knowledge. Elihu, who was standing in the place of God said this-Job 34:35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom. And then Elihu went on to say this-Job 34:36-37 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men. For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.

Hank how can we communicate if we don't first settle some finer points, like who was Elihu? I believe as the scriptures state that Elihu was standing in God's place. If you don't then our conversation is meaningless until we settle that point.

 

[thankfulttt]

Is this your response to #1 that you posted? See below:



Thank you kindly.

No. They are two individual statements that stand alone.

 

[brinny]

No. They are two individual statements that stand alone.

What are two individual statements that stand alone?

Thank you kindly.

 

[brinny]

What Bible verses are you basing this on?

1. Was Job born again in the beginning of the book? This would mean he had a personally relationship with God. That he was clothed in God's righteousness.

My answer is no.

Thank you kindly.

 

[thankfulttt]

What are two individual statements that stand alone?

Thank you kindly.

The two statements you posted in post #87 which are the following-

(1) When God said Satan moved him against Job without cause it only pertained to the first test. You cannot apply that statement for the second test, or to the rest of the book.


(2) 1. Was Job born again in the beginning of the book? This would mean he had a personally relationship with God. That he was clothed in God's righteousness.

My answer is no.

 

[brinny]

The two statements you posted in post #87 which are the following-

(1) When God said Satan moved him against Job without cause it only pertained to the first test. You cannot apply that statement for the second test, or to the rest of the book.


(2) 1. Was Job born again in the beginning of the book? This would mean he had a personally relationship with God. That he was clothed in God's righteousness.

My answer is no.

Re: this (below):

1. Was Job born again in the beginning of the book? This would mean he had a personally relationship with God. That he was clothed in God's righteousness.

My answer is no.

What are you basing this on?

Thank you kindly.

 

[seekingsolace]

When God said Satan moved him against Job without cause it only pertained to the first test. You cannot apply that statement for the second test, or to the rest of the book.

Job passed the first test without sin
Job 1:22 "In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong."

Job passed the second test without sin
Job 2:10 "In all this Job did not sin with his lips."

Job 2:3 "Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”

if the second test is not indicated by incitement from Satan, what is?

 

[brinny]

The two statements you posted in post #87 which are the following-

(1) When God said Satan moved him against Job without cause it only pertained to the first test. You cannot apply that statement for the second test, or to the rest of the book.


(2) 1. Was Job born again in the beginning of the book? This would mean he had a personally relationship with God. That he was clothed in God's righteousness.

My answer is no.

That is not what i posted in post #87. Please refer back to post #87 for clarification.

Thank you kindly.

 

[brinny]

Job passed the first test without sin
Job 1:22 "In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong."

Job passed the second test without sin
Job 2:10 "In all this Job did not sin with his lips."

Job 2:3 "Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”

if the second test is not indicated by incitement from Satan, what is?

Exactly.

 

[thankfulttt]

Re: this (below):


What are you basing this on?

Thank you kindly.

I am basing it on Job's own words as they relate to doctrine in the New Testament.


1. Job did not know how to be just with God. This is a a prime requirement for salvation.

Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?

2. Job was not forgiven.

Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

3. Job didn't know God.

Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

Job 23:3 Oh that I knew where I might find him! [that] I might come [even] to his seat!

Job 23:4 I would order [my] cause before him, and fill my mouth with arguments.

4. Job claimed that he was a hired servant. Hired servants did not belong to the master, neither can hired servants partake of the Passover Lamb (Jesus Christ).

Job 7:1 Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?

Job 7:2 As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:

Job 14:6 Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.

5. Job wanted to be free from his master.

Job 3:19 The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.

 

[brinny]

I am basing it on Job's own words as they relate to doctrine in the New Testament.


1. Job did not know how to be just with God. This is a a prime requirement for salvation.

Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?

2. Job was not forgiven.

Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

3. Job didn't know God.

Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

Job 23:3 Oh that I knew where I might find him! [that] I might come [even] to his seat!

Job 23:4 I would order [my] cause before him, and fill my mouth with arguments.

4. Job claimed that he was a hired servant. Hired servant did not belong to the master, neither can hired servants partake of the Passover Lamb (Jesus Christ).

Job 7:1 Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?

Job 7:2 As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:

Job 14:6 Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.

5. Job wanted to be free from his master.

Job 3:19 The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.

None of what you posted above addresses what i asked you. I asked you what you are basing this conclusion of Job on, and based on what God's own testimony of Job is, not man's:

your quote:

1. Was Job born again in the beginning of the book? This would mean he had a personally relationship with God. That he was clothed in God's righteousness.

My answer is no.

This is addressed in seekingsolace's post #95.

Did God lie?

Thank you kindly.

 

[thankfulttt]

Job passed the first test without sin
Job 1:22 "In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong."

Job passed the second test without sin
Job 2:10 "In all this Job did not sin with his lips."

Job 2:3 "Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”

if the second test is not indicated by incitement from Satan, what is?

I never said the second test was not indicated by incitement from Satan. My statement was that after the second test God never makes the statement that it was "without cause".