Being Messianic in the Christian Churches

[Lulav]

Well now you know of at least one.

Here is another Torah observant Catholic, this one Melkite:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...sk-me-my-denomination-i-am-a-melkite.7664659/

However, it is now only the Catholic group who continue to use the title Melkite; thus, in modern usage, the term applies almost exclusively to the Arabic-speaking Greek Catholics from the Middle East.

From a Melkite website

WE KNOW FROM SEVERAL of his epistles how adamant St. Paul was against keeping the prescriptions of the Torah – circumcision, the dietary rules and the like. In the Epistle to the Galatians we see one reason why some new Christians proposed keeping them: they wanted to fit in with the Jewish community in order to avoid persecution.

 

[visionary]

The ones who were considered Gentiles were adopted into the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh.

Manasseh is mentioned in the 144,000 sealed but Ephraim is not.

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

1. Juda
   
2. Reuben
   
3. Gad
   
4. Aser
5. Nepthalim
   
6. Manasses
7. Simeon
8. Levi
9. Issachar
10. Zabulon
11. Joseph
12. Benjamin

IN the generations that make Yeshua geneology of the trube of Judah were "other nationalities"

 

[Meowzltov]

So basically you are saying he is part and but not really because he hasn't converted.

He is part of the New Covenant (for the whole world) but not part of the Old Covenant (for Israel) except out of love. Unless he wants to become a Jew.

 

[Meowzltov]

However, it is now only the Catholic group who continue to use the title Melkite; thus, in modern usage, the term applies almost exclusively to the Arabic-speaking Greek Catholics from the Middle East.

From a Melkite website

WE KNOW FROM SEVERAL of his epistles how adamant St. Paul was against keeping the prescriptions of the Torah – circumcision, the dietary rules and the like. In the Epistle to the Galatians we see one reason why some new Christians proposed keeping them: they wanted to fit in with the Jewish community in order to avoid persecution.

And yet, with the blessings of Rome, THIS Melkite is keeping the Torah.

All I'm trying to say is that although we are rare, we do exist.

 

[Lulav]

He is part of the New Covenant (for the whole world) but not part of the Old Covenant (for Israel) except out of love. Unless he wants to become a Jew.

So you believe that there are two Covenants? One old one renewed for the Jew and a brand new one for the Gentile?
One has stipulations the other doesn't?

How does the Gentile become part of the bride where the ketubah says you keep my commandments and I will be your G-d?

 

[Lulav]

And yet, with the blessings of Rome, THIS Melkite is keeping the Torah.

All I'm trying to say is that although we are rare, we do exist.

Yet the teachings of the Malkites is that Paul taught against Torah.

that came from here https://melkite.org/faith/sunday-scriptures/taking-a-stand

So then how do they have a blessing from Rome to keep Torah if the sect does not?

 

[Meowzltov]

So you believe that there are two Covenants? One old one renewed for the Jew and a brand new one for the Gentile?
One has stipulations the other doesn't?

How does the Gentile become part of the bride where the ketubah says you keep my commandments and I will be your G-d?

Yes, I believe in two different covenants with different criteria and different rewards.

The bride of Christ is different from the bride of the Father. Let's not mix our metaphors.

 

[Meowzltov]

Yet the teachings of the Malkites is that Paul taught against Torah.

For Gentiles. That is generally the teaching of the Catholic church, that Torah is not for Gentiles.

 

[Lulav]

Yes, I believe in two different covenants with different criteria and different rewards.

The bride of Christ is different from the bride of the Father. Let's not mix our metaphors.

Actually that's quite confusing for me, not to say for the Gentile!

Are you saying both the Father and the Son each have a bride?

So the Father's bride is Jewish and the Son's bride is Gentile?

But also the Father's Jewish bride can be part of the Son's bride but the Son's bride cannot be part of the Father's Bride?

But Yeshua (the son) said, I and the Father are one. And Torah says that a man is not to know his son's wife.

So that understanding is quite confusing.

 

[Meowzltov]

Are you saying both the Father and the Son each have a bride?

Yes, I'm saaying the metaphor of the bride is used two seperate times. Let's not confuse them.

 

[Lulav]

Yes, I'm saaying the metaphor of the bride is used two seperate times. Let's not confuse them.

I think you need to elaborate. If it is two separate times are you saying there are two separate brides? Gentiles belong to whom?
Can you please give the verses where these two are? So I can understand you better.

 

[Meowzltov]

I think you need to elaborate. If it is two separate times are you saying there are two separate brides? Gentiles belong to whom?

Gentiles are part of the Church which is the Bride of Christ. Revelation 21:9 speak of the Bride of the Lamb as Jerusalem but doesn't say whom Jerusalem represents; Christian tradition interprets it as the Church.
Israel is the Bride of YHVH (the Father). Isaiah 62:5 speaks of God (the Father) as the Bridegroom and Israel as the Bride. this is repeated numerous other places in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Joel.

 

[Ken Rank]

Ken, the New Covenant is with the whole world.

If you really want to be part of Israel and take upon yourself the Mosaic laws, go to a UMJC synagogue and convert and become a Jew.

No, there is a differentiation between Judah and Israel, Judah and Ephraim, Judah and Joseph, and Judah and Samaria over >>160 times<< in the Tanach alone. Notice the word "and" in between Judah AND Israel... two entities, not one but BOTH are Israel. As for the new covenant, my bible says "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the House of Judah." It doesn't say gentiles and it doesn't say "the whole world."

Obviously we won't ever see eye to eye on this one... not a chance. There is not one verse supporting your statement and I can produce over 160 of them showing a differentiation in people who are still all part of Israel.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[Meowzltov]

No, there is a differentiation between Judah and Israel, Judah and Ephraim, Judah and Joseph, and Judah and Samaria over >>160 times<< in the Tanach alone. Notice the word "and" in between Judah AND Israel... two entities, not one but BOTH are Israel. As for the new covenant, my bible says "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the House of Judah." It doesn't say gentiles and it doesn't say "the whole world."

Obviously we won't ever see eye to eye on this one... not a chance. There is not one verse supporting your statement and I can produce over 160 of them showing a differentiation in people who are still all part of Israel.

Blessings.
Ken

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong... Samaria became pagan. It is no longer part of Israel. All the rest are part of Israel.

The new covenant in Jeremaiah and Hebrews is not the New Covenant in the NT. It is a new covenant when Christ returns. Remember that in the Jeremiah new covenant no one will need to be taught about God. Is that true right now? No way, Jose.

The New Covenant of the NT is for the whole word. Go unto all the world and preach the gospel unto every living creature.

 

[visionary]

Joe 2:32

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

 

[BelieveTheWord]

The New Covenant of the NT is for the whole word. Go unto all the world and preach the gospel unto every living creature.

Matthew 28 16But the eleven disciples went into Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had sent them. 17When they saw him, they bowed down to him, but some doubted. 18Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. 19Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

Yet again, there is only one law for everyone.

 

[Lulav]

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong... Samaria became pagan. It is no longer part of Israel. All the rest are part of Israel.

The new covenant in Jeremaiah and Hebrews is not the New Covenant in the NT. It is a new covenant when Christ returns. Remember that in the Jeremiah new covenant no one will need to be taught about God. Is that true right now? No way, Jose.

The New Covenant of the NT is for the whole word. Go unto all the world and preach the gospel unto every living creature.

And what would that gospel be? What does it give to Gentiles?

 

[Meowzltov]

And what would that gospel be? What does it give to Gentiles?

eternal life.

 

[BukiRob]

eternal life.

You cant pick and choose verses because they disagree with your "view"

No matter how hard you try, you can not ignore Messiah's own words. There is 1 law for all mankind who wishes to be in the kingdom of heaven. It states that in the Hebrew Scriptures and it declares the same in the Brit Chadashah.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Look here is the point:

Keep the commandments of God.

They are found in the Torah / Pentateuch.

I would think being part of Catholicism counter-acts Torah-observance, but if it doesn't, I guess keep doing what makes you happy.