Obama has set race relations back decades

[JustOneWay]

doesn't matter to the question when or how, only thing that matters right now is your answer to the question.

He is discussing business owners, not groups of homosexuals.

 

[razzelflabben]

Two questions:

Do you have an example, of homosexuals discriminating against the constitutional rights of a religious group? And please support how you feel it is discriminating against a religious groups rights.

Are you one, that feels religious rights given to us by the constitution, are "limitless" rights? Yes, or no.

so, you want me to answer your questions even though you refuse to answer mine? I think not. You have been rude enough to me that I think it is time for you to answer the question, then I will oblige by answering yours....that gives you less opportunity to twist things into things not said and then use that twist to make some stupid point that is not relevant to the discussion. You first....

 

[razzelflabben]

He is discussing business owners, not groups of homosexuals.

cool, how about a homosexual business owner? Same question, different wording, no problem

 

[bhsmte]

so, you want me to answer your questions even though you refuse to answer mine? I think not. You have been rude enough to me that I think it is time for you to answer the question, then I will oblige by answering yours....that gives you less opportunity to twist things into things not said and then use that twist to make some stupid point that is not relevant to the discussion. You first....

This is fun.

Tell me, what question did I not answer? Let me know and I will gladly answer, if I have not already in this thread.

 

[iluvatar5150]

oh man that isn't even remotely close to what I said...ignoring until you are ready to deal with what I said.

I quoted what you said. If you can't deal with people repeating your own words back to you, why are you here?

 

[JustOneWay]

cool, how about a homosexual business owner? Same question, different wording, no problem

It is an entirely different question


Obviously the law equally applies to all business owners, of a publically accommodating business.

 

[bhsmte]

I quoted what you said. If you can't deal with people repeating your own words back to you, why are you here?

I see you noticed the same pattern.

 

[smaneck]

And you know what, if I was running for president (and I am a woman) I would be thrilled to have my birth certificate scrutinized for authenticity cause I don't have anything to hide. Question away...it's part of being in the public eye.

First off, when else have we ever scrutinized a candidates birth certificate? Why weren't you scrutinizing McCain's birth certificate? We know he wasn't born in the US!
Second, the birth certificate was a matter of public record. Everyone was free to get a copy from Hawaii who wanted one. Even when the state of Hawaii repeatedly said that Obama was born there, they refused to accept it.

 

[smaneck]

You have been rude enough to me that I think it is time for you to answer the question, .

A lot of projection going on there.

 

[iluvatar5150]

First off, when else have we ever scrutinized a candidates birth certificate? Second, the birth certificate was a matter of public record. Everyone was free to get a copy from Hawaii who wanted one. Even when the state of Hawaii repeatedly said that Obama was born there, they refused to accept it.

Not only that, there's also been a distinct lack of screaming about Ted Cruz' eligibility, despite his non-US birth being openly known.

 

[Belk]

does this include groups like homosexuals discriminating against the constitutional rights of a religious group?

Yes. If a homosexual bakery owner were to refuse to sell a cake to someone because of their religion the exact same rules would apply.

 

[smaneck]

we already talked about this and you didn't give an answer, so why bring it up again?

Gave you lots of answers. You don't listen.

BTW, both are participating on the same level as a business, and both are allowing their reputation to be attached to the event.

Don't think so. I've yet to see a wedding where the name of the bakery was mentioned. But if the courts decide caterers must serve gay weddings as well, I don't have any particular objections, I'm just not sure that reflects the law.

but that is your call, which is the whole entire point...you get to decide if you will cater to a wedding that serves alcohol...

Of course I would cater to a wedding that serves alcohol! I just wouldn't be the one serving it.

.but like I could start a cake company that catered only to homosexual weddings.

You could perhaps do that as a private club, but not a public business. A public business must serve the public.

 

[smaneck]

Muslims are subject to the same secular, civil and criminal laws as everyone else, so no, a halal bakery should not be allowed to refuse to bake cakes for gay weddings - provided that baking wedding cakes is part of their ordinary business.

They don't have to decorate it with gay slogans, however, which is what Crowder was trying to make them do, or more accurately embarrassing them into not doing.

 

[razzelflabben]

I quoted what you said. If you can't deal with people repeating your own words back to you, why are you here?

the quote was previous to the matter in question which is why I did not comment. If you can't deal with following the discussion, why are you here?

 

[razzelflabben]

First off, when else have we ever scrutinized a candidates birth certificate? Why weren't you scrutinizing McCain's birth certificate? We know he wasn't born in the US!

first, the issue is one of natural born citizen, second, the courts didn't rule that harm had to be shown...not sure how many times I can point out to you that I became suspicious when the court ruling didn't reflect constitutional understanding, but hey seems to be a pattern on this thread.

Second, the birth certificate was a matter of public record. Everyone was free to get a copy from Hawaii who wanted one. Even when the state of Hawaii repeatedly said that Obama was born there, they refused to accept it.

Like I said, that wasn't my issue, so I'm not sure what you want to talk about on the matter.

 

[DaisyDay]

Got two stories for you....first, my grandmothers paperwork was lost, the originals were not available because of fire. She needed evidence of birth, there were several ways for her to get that evidence and provide it, which took some doing, but she did. I know more about lost paperwork than you might think, but we aren't talking about lost paperwork and the discrepancies wouldn't have been a problem for me without the courts saying, need to prove harm. Which makes all of this kind of meaningless to what I said.

Second story, the last two of our children were born at home, and they have birth certificates. It's part of the government process and the funny thing is, there are less things on their certificates that could throw up red flags than on mine which does have an error.

It's nice that your children have birth certificates, but many people, especially older people, do not and never did.

Neither of your two stories answers the question of what discrepancies Obama's "paperwork" had.

And you know what, if I was running for president (and I am a woman) I would be thrilled to have my birth certificate scrutinized for authenticity cause I don't have anything to hide. Question away...it's part of being in the public eye.

What mechanism would you have to provide 30 million people the chance to scrutinize your birth certificate?

 

[razzelflabben]

Yes. If a homosexual bakery owner were to refuse to sell a cake to someone because of their religion the exact same rules would apply.

wait, who is refusing to bake a cake for any belief? We are talking about refusing to bake a cake for an event we don't believe in. If a homosexual bakery wanted to refuse to bake a cake for say, a religious group that was holding a special service to speak out against homosexuality. Would the honosexual baker have the right to not participate in the event by not baking the cake? remember, the event is in direct disagreement of what the baker believes and lives out.

 

[bhsmte]

wait, who is refusing to bake a cake for any belief? We are talking about refusing to bake a cake for an event we don't believe in. If a homosexual bakery wanted to refuse to bake a cake for say, a religious group that was holding a special service to speak out against homosexuality. Would the honosexual baker have the right to not participate in the event by not baking the cake? remember, the event is in direct disagreement of what the baker believes and lives out.

This has been addressed, but seems to be avoiding you.

A baker would not be obligated to write anything on a cake, that was deemed hate speech or derogatory towards any particular group. I don't see what that is so hard to understand.

But lets stick to weddings, since this matter revolves around weddings.

Baker Sam opens a bakery and sells cakes for weddings. Baker Sam would be expected to sell a cake for; gays, catholics, Baptists, muslims, hindus, atheists, etc., who come in to buy a cake for a wedding.

He would even be expected to sell a cake to that divorced couple who are getting married, and are committing adultery according to some Christians interpretation of their theology.

By the way; were you going to point out which question I did not answer as you claim? I would love to do so, if I have not already answered it, just as I am sure you are quite willing, to answer the two simple questions I had for you.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

wait, who is refusing to bake a cake for any belief? We are talking about refusing to bake a cake for an event we don't believe in. If a homosexual bakery wanted to refuse to bake a cake for say, a religious group that was holding a special service to speak out against homosexuality. Would the honosexual baker have the right to not participate in the event by not baking the cake? remember, the event is in direct disagreement of what the baker believes and lives out.

Everyone assumes that there are plenty of alternate cake baking venues to go to when one venue refuses. But the nature of community prejudice is such that it can easily come about that every possible cake baking business in the region shares the same desire to refuse the baking of a cake. That is part of the reason for insisting the business serve all of the public.

 

[smaneck]

Do you believe that honor killings are okay if they happen at home and not in public?

How is this at all relevant. There is no religion which believes honor killings are okay.

You just proclaimed religious freedom at home. or how about animal sacrifices at home?

Gray area. If you can kill a chicken to eat, why couldn't you do so for a religious ritual? In Iran, Jews still perform animal sacrifices, but when they tried to do one in an LA condo, it created quite a stir. I would say, don't let the blood drip down in your neighbor's apartment. Also, you'd better make sure that any such sacrifices are done humanely.

I grew up not far from a heavily Satanic community in which you could see satanic symbols on roads and such, occasionally it would hit the news that suspicious carcasses would be found...

Yeah, right. Why associate animal sacrifices with Satanism? And what exactly constitutes a 'suspicious carcass'?

does that also mean (IN your eyes) that every business owner must cater to all events, for example a KKK rally?

We've already discussed catering as a grey area, not yet decided by the courts.

If I am asked to bake a cake for a KKK rally, do I have the right to say that as someone who does not believe in hate due to race, I will not bake a cake for the KKK or a Nazi rally of some kind?

Nope. But you do have the right to refuse to put Nazi or KKK decorations on the cake.

It seems to me (my opinion) that you are missing some key points in this discussion, answering the questions should clarify if you are or if you really don't believe in liberty for all people

It seems to me you ignore people's answers. But as far as "liberty for all people" your liberty ends where my nose begins. Always has, always will.