GUILTY

[BCP1928]

Thats the thing, he's not stupid in that sense. Its almost like a Hollywood drama from where I'm sitting lol. The US presidency between a senile old man and a crooked man lol.

But I thing its left a bad taste in peoples mouths that the system can go after a person, a political opponent and take them out. That is what I think has struck a chord and people are almost willing to overlook Trumps indescretion and be more mad about those who manipulate the system using their power.

We all know polititians get up to stuff and we have tended to accept that as part and parcel that people, men especially in power get up to mischief. From John Kennedy and his affairs, Obama's dirty little secrets, Clintons escapades, Bush dirty deals. Even Biden seems to have sskeltons in the closet.

But I think what p***** people ooff the most is hypocracy. Is using the system to take a rival out. I can see that this was not just about Trumps behaviour. The way it was rushed, the way people were working night and day to find something, to make it stick.

I'm not saying Trump is an angle, certainly not. But it seems that what you see is what you get with Trump warts and all. He knows people know he has messed around. Many polititians have had secret affairs or had sex with some intern or prostitue or done some shady deal. They have just been better at hiding it and the people know this.

That is what I think sticks in many peoples craw that they know the very people who went out of their way to get Trump have done the same and that they have used this to shut down an opponent who threatened to take their power. They relate because that same system has been taking their power for years.

But thats the thing. People eventually get caught as we have seen with stuff coming out about X presidents and others in power. That goes in the memory bank and that is why people have generally stopped trusting polititians and they see that they are in it for money and to hold onto power. Its not about the people but themselves.

That is why I think Trump is popular because unlike polititians he is a business and street person first who happen to dabble in politics. We have seen this trend where people have been rejecting main parties and voting in Independents and smaller fringe parties. It seems whether by design or luck Trump has tapped into something people relate to.

I can see the Left exploiting this. I think the memes making Trump into a felon will last around a couple of weeks and then people will begin to get sick of it. The more the Left uses it the more it will begin to represent hypocracy because the voters are not stupid and know when something is being exploited for political reasons.

The more the Left try to make themselves out to be on higher moral ground the more people will turn off. It may even pushpeople towards Trump because at the end of the day they will have a choice between two bad options. It just a case of which they think is worse. I don't think many see Trumps descresions as major but they do see the abuse of power as worse as many have experienced it themselves.

What this will do is decend US politics into the gutter and may even create some sort of conflict in the streets. Identity politics has polarised people and hieghtened their feelings. Now polititians will be digging up dirt on each other and its going to be a s*** fight. It may even decend into violence.

What the Left have to worry about now I think is whether its Trump or another candidate they will tap into this sentiment and its like a free ride to an election win. If they put up a clean skin riding off the back of Trumps common man approach then the Left will lose for sure. If Trump goes ahead and still maintains his support and even increases it I would not be surprised if someone tries to take him out. I think things are getting that desperate.

The left do think of themselves as being on moral "high ground" and it's a vain thing. But they certainly are on higher moral ground than right wing Christians in this country who have abandoned even a pretense of moral compass. I give you--just as an example--the Christian leaders who were proud of themselves for showing enlarged pictures of the President's son Hunter naked and having sex with a prostitute on live TV during prime family viewing hours. I give you the growing number of Christian clergymen who have begun to preach against the Sermon on the Mount as inappropriate behavior for a Christian, and so on. No, there is no moral high ground for anyone.

 

[stevevw]

The left do think of themselves as being on moral "high ground" and it's a vain thing. But they certainly are on higher moral ground than right wing Christians in this country who have abandoned even a pretense of moral compass. I give you--just as an example--the Christian leaders who were proud of themselves for showing enlarged pictures of the President's son Hunter naked and having sex with a prostitute on live TV during prime family viewing hours. I give you the growing number of Christian clergymen who have begun to preach against the Sermon on the Mount as inappropriate behavior for a Christian, and so on. No, there is no moral high ground for anyone.

Ok well I don't follow the US news. But this is what is now going to happen in this tit for tat war thats been created. It would probably be in the interest of the Right to bring up any indescretion by the Left to show 'hey the Left does exactly what they hounded Trump doing". But they are doing the same as the Left.

I don't think you could call any polititians Christian if the reject the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes. They speak of love, compassion, and selflessness, to love your enemies, forgive others, and to care for the poor and marginalized. The core Christian values and teachings.

That would be like saying a polititian who the core Democrate truths and values is a Democrate. Like a wolf in sheep clothing.

 

[BCP1928]

Ok well I don't follow the US news. But this is what is now going to happen in this tit for tat war thats been created. It would probably be in the interest of the Right to bring up any indescretion by the Left to show 'hey the Left does exactly what they hounded Trump doing". But they are doing the same as the Left.

So how is it going for Christians in Australia? We don't follow Australian news much here because we just don't get much. Have you managed to abolish gun control yet? Have you stopped the government from addressing AGW? What about sex? Regulating how non-Christians do sex is apparently a core Christian value. Are you making any progress with it?

I don't think you could call any polititians Christian if the reject the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes. They speak of love, compassion, and selflessness, to love your enemies, forgive others, and to care for the poor and marginalized. The core Christian values and teachings.

Christians give themselves a pass on that stuff now, because they are under attack by the Woke Monster and have to take drastic action.

 

[rturner76]

I'm not from the US and I think this whole thing is a circus. I have watched over the years the corruption within governments. We have seen how the system is rigged. The problem I see and from what I have been hearing it seems a lot of minorities are relating to Trumps targeting for political purposes and see this an an example of a rigged system. I think this will actually work in Trumps favor.

I think the main message coming out of all this is big brother interference and they see that as a greater wrong than what Trump has done. They know that Trump is not the only polititian who is corrupt. They know that there are Trump like deals done behind closed doors. Its just they are more clever in covering it up. Everyone knows the system is corrupt.

The system is corrupt but politicians like Trump. I think that what people are tired of with Trump is, if he doesn't get his way (like losing an election for example), he will do things like demand the electoral college cast their vote for the loser of the election. Then, demanded his Vice President not ratify the vote if he lost. Those are some pretty big asks which are blatantly unconstitutional.

 

[rturner76]

As the Christian Right defines it these days they are good Christians and you are not. When Trump gets in they will be able to put some muscle behind that determination. And I say "when" because I truly believe that these Christians are prepared to put him in by force if he is not elected.

I am starting to wonder about that because at least on this particular forum which is dominated by right-wing Christians, documented facts are fallible and personal opinion is bonafide fact.

 

[BPPLEE]

I am starting to wonder about that because at least on this particular forum which is dominated by right-wing Christians, documented facts are fallible and personal opinion is bonafide fact.

This forum is dominated by right wing Christians?

 

[BCP1928]

This forum is dominated by right wing Christians?

I don't think many politically centrist Christians come here to argue with liberals. Many liberals are Christians themselves with much the same doctrine. What would be the point?

 

[stevevw]

So how is it going for Christians in Australia? We don't follow Australian news much here because we just don't get much. Have you managed to abolish gun control yet?

Not sure what you mean by abolish gun control. Does that mean stop Australia controlling who has guns or stop controlling people who have guns and allow them to once again have guns. Like Australia is somehow denying the right to bear arms.

There are not many guns in Australia as we banned them except for farmers or police and security ect. As a result we don't have many gun related killings.

Have you stopped the government from addressing AGW?

I had to lookup what AGW meant. Is it about climate change. If so Ithink thats one area we may have in common with all the divided opinion and politicing. Radical groups like Extinction rebellion blocking peoples rights to work and freely move. The same ideologues that protested when the overnment restricted their movements by the way which shows their agenda is not really genuine and nobel but ideological.

What about sex?

Depends what you mean by sex. Like all western nations secularism dictates what sex is, and behaviour which tends to try and demorlaise it and make it a natural expression of being human no matter what behaviour. In other words there is no moral standards when it comes to sex.

If you mean sex as in the current debate on sex and gender then we have a similar problem to the US and other western nations. Gender is being conflated as sex and sex as gender and everyone is confused. Irrational ideology is replacing biological fact which is causing all sorts of conflicts and violence.

Regulating how non-Christians do sex is apparently a core Christian value. Are you making any progress with it?

I don't think being concerned about sexual behaviour and what is good and bad is a preoccupation of just Christians. Its a societal concern and rightly so when we think of issues such as sexually transmitted diseaeses like AIDS, unnecessary Abortions, I mean millions, population growth or lack of, sexual assault and rape, and the many young people who are mentally disturbed by societies unreal ideas about sex.

Such as the promotion of porn which objectifies women and desensitises people from the importance and sanctity of sex. If its not a concern for everyone then I question those who think it isn't as promoting destablising and unreal ideas.

Not to mention the massive increase in child pornograpthy and sex traficking where it seems the most child pron is being proporgated by the US. But the fact that whatever policies or ideologies modern society is promoting it seems to encourage this sort of stuff which is not good by any accounts.

Christians give themselves a pass on that stuff now, because they are under attack by the Woke Monster and have to take drastic action.

Yes it seems some churchs are becoming Woke and compromising on Christs clear teachings. They will be accountable to God for their actions. But you cannot say that any Christian who rejects Christs teaching and then claims to be a Christian is a Christian. Its like saying a Democrate who rejects the Democrates creed and political ideology and keeps paising Trump and advocating him as president is a Democrate.

 

[BPPLEE]

I don't think many politically centrist Christians come here to argue with liberals. Many liberals are Christians themselves with much the same doctrine. What would be the point?

There are right wing Christian members here but they don’t dominate the forum

 

[BCP1928]

Not sure what you mean by abolish gun control. Does that mean stop Australia controlling who has guns or stop controlling people who have guns and allow them to once again have guns. Like Australia is somehow denying the right to bear arms.

There are not many guns in Australia as we banned them except for farmers or police and security ect. As a result we don't have many gun related killings.

I had to lookup what AGW meant. Is it about climate change. If so Ithink thats one area we may have in common with all the divided opinion and politicing. Radical groups like Extinction rebellion blocking peoples rights to work and freely move. The same ideologues that protested when the overnment restricted their movements by the way which shows their agenda is not really genuine and nobel but ideological.

Depends what you mean by sex. Like all western nations secularism dictates what sex is, and behaviour which tends to try and demorlaise it and make it a natural expression of being human no matter what behaviour. In other words there is no moral standards when it comes to sex.

If you mean sex as in the current debate on sex and gender then we have a similar problem to the US and other western nations. Gender is being conflated as sex and sex as gender and everyone is confused. Irrational ideology is replacing biological fact which is causing all sorts of conflicts and violence.

I don't think being concerned about sexual behaviour and what is good and bad is a preoccupation of just Christians. Its a societal concern and rightly so when we think of issues such as sexually transmitted diseaeses like AIDS, unnecessary Abortions, I mean millions, population growth or lack of, sexual assault and rape, and the many young people who are mentally disturbed by societies unreal ideas about sex.

Such as the promotion of porn which objectifies women and desensitises people from the importance and sanctity of sex. If its not a concern for everyone then I question those who think it isn't as promoting destablising and unreal ideas.

Not to mention the massive increase in child pornograpthy and sex traficking where it seems the most child pron is being proporgated by the US. But the fact that whatever policies or ideologies modern society is promoting it seems to encourage this sort of stuff which is not good by any accounts.

Yes it seems some churchs are becoming Woke and compromising on Christs clear teachings. They will be accountable to God for their actions. But you cannot say that any Christian who rejects Christs teaching and then claims to be a Christian is a Christian. Its like saying a Democrate who rejects the Democrates creed and political ideology and keeps paising Trump and advocating him as president is a Democrate.

B+ You failed badly on gun control but on the rest of the issues you're a Real True Christian Patriot.

 

[BCP1928]

There are right wing Christian members here but they don’t dominate the forum

Right wing Christians clearly outnumber other Christians. I think that was the point.

 

[stevevw]

B+ You failed badly on gun control but on the rest of the issues you're a Real True Christian Patriot.

Oh gee I will have to try harder.

 

[BCP1928]

Oh gee I will have to try harder.

I think it's too late for Australia--you guys are going to be easy pickings when George Soros sends in the anti-Christian UN Peacekeeping Force to install left-wing totalitarian government. Anyway, didn't you imply that there might be some good in gun control because it reduced the number of killings? That doesn't appear to be sound doctrine to me. No, sorry, you flunked Christian Gun Control Theory, no makeups.

 

[stevevw]

The system is corrupt but politicians like Trump. I think that what people are tired of with Trump is, if he doesn't get his way (like losing an election for example), he will do things like demand the electoral college cast their vote for the loser of the election. Then, demanded his Vice President not ratify the vote if he lost. Those are some pretty big asks which are blatantly unconstitutional.

I'm pretty sure I have seen the other isde do the same in different ways all protesting the results and doing stuff to undermine things. That is what I think people have picked up on.

They may see Trump sometimes doing the same thing but dislike more that the other side does the same thing and pretends they don't. Then make it worse by making a big noise about how rightous they are and how bad the Trump is when we all know thats not the case.

In other words they don't mind a few blemishes with Trump because at least he seems to not pretend he is better. People don't mind that a polititians may have done some shady business deals but they don't like it when they mess around with our fundemental rights and pretend they have our best interests at heart when we know they are in it for themselves. I think at least Trump acknowledges the system stinks and needs to change and thats what people relate to.

I think whats happening with Trump is happening in a number of nations and has been coming for a long time now. We all heard the rumblings about how polititians were out of touch. people called for polititians who had life experience, were street smart and understood and represented the common person.

We have seen independents and minor parties win larger % of the vote as a result. The Left is aligning itself more with the old system people distrust of centralised control, and using their position to maintain their own power and people are sick of it. Trump has tapped into the sentiment of most people who want change, who want someone who represents them.

Trumps able to do that because he is not a career polititian that has to tow the party line. Its similar to how independent music and media is becoming more popular because it speaks to the common person and isn't bound to bow to the system they percieve as taking their rights away.

 

[Bradskii]

So how is it going for Christians in Australia?

I see that you got the answer that you probably expected...

 

[stevevw]

I think it's too late for Australia--you guys are going to be easy pickings when George Soros sends in the anti-Christian UN Peacekeeping Force to install left-wing totalitarian government. Anyway, didn't you imply that there might be some good in gun control because it reduced the number of killings? That doesn't appear to be sound doctrine to me. No, sorry, you flunked Christian Gun Control Theory, no makeups.

No when did I say that. I said that since we don't allow free reign of gun ownership we have less gun related killings. Thats a good thing.

This is interesting about Soros. I have heard this before, my son keeps going on about it. Him and Black Rock and others. Not sure what depths this goes into but its certainly not good that someone with such wealth and power should have any say in government policy.

 

[NxNW]

I do agree that these convictions will amount to nothing in regard to Trump - but it seems to be bad precedent for the country.

10% of Republicans and 25% of Independents say they will not vote for Trump as a result of the verdict. If those polling figures are accurate (big disclaimer), then that's enough to cause Trump to lose.

 

[Brihaha]

10% of Republicans and 25% of Independents say they will not vote for Trump as a result of the verdict. If those polling figures are accurate (big disclaimer), then that's enough to cause Trump to lose.

Trumpers know these felonies will not help him get reelected. They also know they have tied their cart to a hobbled horse. Self-delusion is a hard habit to break. Especially if one doesn't try.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Trumpers know these felonies will not help him get reelected. They also know they have tied their cart to a hobbled horse. Self-delusion is a hard habit to break. Especially if one doesn't try.

Republicans know they either stick with Trump and possibly lose. Or they ditch Trump and his fans vote for Trump anyway and they’ll definitely lose.

 

[Brihaha]

Republicans know they either stick with Trump and possibly lose. Or they ditch Trump and his fans vote for Trump anyway and they’ll definitely lose.

I feel they should come back to reality as soon as possible. A return to principles such as honesty with constituents will benefit the party and our country. The sooner the better. It doesn't behoove them to continue their fake Trump fealty any longer. I certainly wouldn't consider voting for any who continue enabling Donald's self-serving agenda. The party is too shortsighted. And much too dishonest.