Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[BobRyan]

Let's let THEM speak for themselves when it comes to THEIR opposition to the argument that the TEN commandments need to be "downsized by one".

- D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

BY THE
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]DWIGHT L. MOODY[/FONT][/FONT]​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Here again - we let them speak for themselves -- in the case of what THEY call the "Ten Commandments"

The Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 almost identical to the Westminster section 19 quoted above.

Notice how they both fit that 7 point summary already posted on page 1?

[FONT=&quot]Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 link[/FONT]


Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- [FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it __________________

 

[listed]

Let's let THEM speak for themselves when it comes to THEIR opposition to the argument that the TEN commandments need to be "downsized by one".

What is the need to down size the Ten Commandments when you notably refuse to keep them?

It is not the Ten Commandments we argue against. We argue against your obvious misrepresentation.

 

[listed]

Here again - we let them speak for themselves -- in the case of what THEY call the "Ten Commandments"

Several of us here at CF have no use for your religious quotes which do not line up with Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

It is no wonder that the objective standard whereby Bible evidence is so glaringly obvious that BOTH sides of the debate agree to certain points -- become highly important to some - and much-to-be-avoided by others.

Nothing new there.

As for the Bible texts in the OP --

====================================

[FONT=&quot]Here we have the NT text providing examples from the TEN Commandments -- affirming them as "still" valid.

And of course scripture is -- true.

=========================

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Not[FONT=&quot]e:
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Paul says in Romans 3 that this is the Law that defines sin and condemns the entire world as sinners... that would not be "the Law about Passover". That does not condemn gentiles at all.
.
...

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The context in Romans 3 is not Psalms but rather the LAW that condemns all mankind under sin.

Which I think even you will admit is not simply the Psalms - but the TEN Commandments written on stone the "LAW of death" as Paul calls it in 2Cor 3.

2 Cor 3
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away ==============================

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets" a term that specifies all of OT "scripture")
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it."

Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”

[FONT=&quot]=================================[/FONT]

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=&quot],”
also said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit murder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

[FONT=&quot]==========================

[FONT=&quot]Is it any w[FONT=&quot]onder that even the ma[FONT=&quot]jority of pro-sunday scholarship "get the point"?

[FONT=&quot]No[FONT=&quot] - it is not surprising [FONT=&quot]at all.

[FONT=&quot]Is it a wonder that those opposed to the Bible statements on the TEN Commandments also [FONT=&quot]oppose the majorit[FONT=&quot]y of the[FONT=&quot]i[FONT=&quot]r own pro-sunday s[FONT=&quot]ch[FONT=&quot]olarship?

[FONT=&quot]That is [FONT=&quot]just a bit surprising. As it turns out.

[FONT=&quot]in Christ,

[FONT=&quot]Bob[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[MoreCoffee]

One wonders what it is like to be fixated on keeping days?

Free from the law—oh, blessed condition!
Jesus hath bled, and there is remission;
Cursed by the law and bruised by the fall,
Christ hath redeemed us once for all.

 

[BobRyan]

Not a single one of them promote all the 10 Cs. Otherwise they couldn't be pro-Sunday.

bugkiller

Let's let THEM speak for themselves when it comes to THEIR opposition to the argument that the TEN commandments need to be "downsized by one".

Several of us here at CF have no use for your religious quotes which do not line up with Scripture.

That concludes with a summary reasoning where logic appears to be illusive to the reader.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

One wonders what it is like to be fixated on keeping days?

The RCC on that subject

Well then what about all the other pro-sunday groups as listed in my signature line? What about the Catholic church for example?

It is interesting that even the RCC confirms many of those 7 points.

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini is a papal encyclical on the subject of Sunday and how it is regarded by tradition to be a holy day rooted in the 10 commandments as a continuation of the 4th commandment (numbered 3 by Roman Catholics).

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]Dies Domini, John Paul II, 5 July 1998 - Apostolic Letter - link[/FONT]

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Dies Domini, John Paul II, 5 July 1998 - Apostolic Letter [/FONT]

========================== Dies Domini begin
[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 11 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown
of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."[/FONT]

=============================== Dies Domini ... end quote

The quote I gave from Dies Domini is fully consistent with the examples I gave from the Catholic Catechism - at least that is what we appear to have in the details of those quotes.

No one has an example of Dies Domini or the CCC objecting to the 7 points listed in the OP. No not one.

I offer a perfect example to test the points -- in quotes from the CCC.

I say again that 6 of the 7 points appear here.

Secondary source for the Catechism: This is a link -[FONT=&quot]Catholic Catechism Section Two Ten Comm[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.[/FONT] _

Could have added "Lent" to that list of "days" but that is for another thread.

Or is it that Bible that is being called into question?

===========

[FONT=&quot]Gen 2
[FONT=&quot]Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

Exodus 20:
8 ""Remember The Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" FOR in six days the LORD MADE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, THE SEA AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed The Sabbath day and made it holy.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]From Gen 2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Ex 20:11[/FONT] - [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed The Sabbath day and made it holy.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 2:27 “the Sabbath was MADE for Mankind – not mankind MADE for the Sabbath”[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Patchworks]

We don't need Bible scholars to reiterate the facts of scripture. The 10 commandments are the moral guidelines of God's eternal law.

They are still in effect. Always have been always shall be.

[FONT=&quot]Are God's Ten Commandments still valid ??

That is the primary question to be answered on this section of the board.

And the irrefutable response from scripture is ... "yes".

========================

Here we have the NT text providing examples from the TEN Commandments -- affirming them as "still" valid.

And of course scripture is -- true.

=========================

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Not[FONT=&quot]e:
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Paul says in Romans 3 that this is the Law that defines sin and condemns the entire world as sinners... that would not be "the Law about Passover". That does not condemn gentiles at all.
.
...

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The context in Romans 3 is not Psalms but rather the LAW that condemns all mankind under sin.

Which I think even you will admit is not simply the Psalms - but the TEN Commandments written on stone the "LAW of death" as Paul calls it in 2Cor 3.

2 Cor 3
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away ==============================

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets" a term that specifies all of OT "scripture")
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it."

Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”

[FONT=&quot]=================================[/FONT]

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=&quot],”
also said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit murder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty


[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

We don't need Bible scholars to reiterate the facts of scripture. The 10 commandments are the moral guidelines of God's eternal law.

They are still in effect. Always have been always shall be.

Amen!

And welcome to the forum!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

By your high light it looks to me that you are only accusing Christians of sinning because they do not keep the Sabbath. I ask how, when the prophets say there will be a new and totally different covenant which is verified all through the NT?

No you simply will not accept Rom 10:4 as it reads. If you can please show Jesus is not the end of the law for righteousness. You are really saying one can be righteous by keeping part of the law because you do not keep the law as it is written. The Scripture disagrees with you.

Your 1 John 5 reference is not referring to the law or the ten commandments.

Here the court witnesses an example not only of the only, but the, best defense the accused has to present the jury, Tell the prosecutor what the charges against him are.

[ The above is based on the true incident where a tomato thief was brought to justice. After having told the judge a loooong story, the judged looked at him steadily but not in the eye, saying not a word. Eventually, casting his stare at the judge down against his body, the poor man saw several tomato seeds stuck to his shirt where he held the tomatoes as he fled the scene of mischief with his prize.

Then, unperturbed, the thief potted seed after seed off with his middle finger, sheepishly looked up at the judge and dared him, “En waa’s djou witnis nou?” ---And where’s your evidence now?!]

 

[BobRyan]

"Do we then make void the law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

.We don't need to make the law void, because God did as He said He would.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

So then where do we find such direct contradictions to the text??

here:

Very true. Paul also states the law isn't for the righteous in that verse. Christians are righteous.Nope! Paul is telling children to obey their parents. Paul isn't speaking to adults in that verse.We don't need to make the law void, because God did as He said He would. Rom 10:4 for starters.

bugkiller

So what did Christ say on the subject of the Law of God - the Commandments of God??

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

Those who would wrench Romans 10:4 via "extreme inference" to get it to contradict the rest of scripture - are making a mistake.

By your high light it looks to me that you are only accusing Christians of sinning because they do not keep the Sabbath. I ask how, when the prophets say there will be a new and totally different covenant which is verified all through the NT?

1. Jer 31:31-33 points to the New Covenant informing us that the LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind" under the NEW Covenant.

I think we all know that by know.

2. The quote above shows Christ affirming God's TEN Commandments just when one poster was arguing that God had abolished them.

No you simply will not accept Rom 10:4 as it reads. If you can please show Jesus is not the end of the law for righteousness. You are really saying one can be righteous by keeping part of the law because you do not keep the law as it is written. The Scripture disagrees with you.

Your 1 John 5 reference is not referring to the law or the ten commandments.

1 John 5:1-4 "The COMMANDMENTS of God" are what is identified - so no mistake at all there.

So also with Paul - "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Rom 10:4 the 'goal" is the "purpose and point" of the LAW of God -- points to the need of Christ and the life of Christ - the walk of Christ as we are told in 1John 2:4-7.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

Here the court witnesses an example not only of the only, but the, best defense the accused has to present the jury, Tell the prosecutor what the charges against him are.

[ The above is based on the true incident where a tomato thief was brought to justice. After having told the judge a loooong story, the judged looked at him steadily but not in the eye, saying not a word. Eventually, casting his stare at the judge down against his body, the poor man saw several tomato seeds stuck to his shirt where he held the tomatoes as he fled the scene of mischief with his prize.

Then, unperturbed, the thief potted seed after seed off with his middle finger, sheepishly looked up at the judge and dared him, “En waa’s djou witnis nou?” ---And where’s your evidence now?!

Cute anecdote.

bugkiller





[/QUOTE]

 

[bugkiller]

1. Jer 31:31-33 points to the New Covenant informing us that the LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind" under the NEW Covenant.

I think we all know that by know.

2. The quote above shows Christ affirming God's TEN Commandments just when one poster was arguing that God had abolished them.




1 John 5:1-4 "The COMMANDMENTS of God" are what is identified - so no mistake at all there.

So also with Paul - "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Rom 10:4 the 'goal" is the "purpose and point" of the LAW of God -- points to the need of Christ and the life of Christ - the walk of Christ as we are told in 1John 2:4-7.

in Christ,

Bob

Great! You quoted both of us showing you didn't answer my question.

I know full well you've been shown that you an John are talking about different sets of commandments more than once. Jesus point this out very clearly in John 15:10 which you don't like enough to use it in place of 14:15.

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Personally I don't understand why you have such a problem reading this.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

[FONT=&quot]Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=&quot],”
also said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit murder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

[/FONT]Eph 6:2 etc.

No justification in scripture for deleting these commandments.

1 John 2 - commands us to "walk as HE walked".

Christ kept ALL the TEN Commandments.

Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

 

[MoreCoffee]

1 Cor 7:19 "[what matters is] keeping the Commandments of God" ...

I had to correct the misquote from the bible. Those added words do change what saint Paul is saying. Here's a more faithful quote of the passage.

Only, let every one lead the life which the Lord has assigned to him, and in which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches. Was any one at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was any one at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God. Every one should remain in the state in which he was called. Were you a slave when called? Never mind. But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity. For he who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of Christ. You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. So, brethren, in whatever state each was called, there let him remain with God. (1 Corinthians 7:17-24 RSV)​

In the passage the commandments of God is not a references to the ten commandments from Exodus 20; this is so because the subject under discussion is circumcision which is not in any of the ten commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

I had to insist on the same verbatim exact quote that I already provided from the actual Bible.

" keeping the commandments of God is what matters." NKJV
"what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God." NASB
"Keeping God’s commands is what counts." NIV
"what matters is to obey God's commandments." GNT

In the passage the Commandments of God are a reference to the TEN Commandments.

As we saw here - #116

This is so because the CONTRAST between circumcision and the "Commandments of God" would (by definition) require that circumcision NOT be part of those commandments.

Obviously.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I had to insist on the same verbatim exact quote that I already provided from the actual Bible [translation]. ...

The issue is not what translation you can ferret out that supports your theology. The issue is that those words are not present in the Greek text of the new testament. Your arguments rely on an opinion not on the holy scriptures.

 

[Steeno7]

The issue is not what translation you can ferret out that supports your theology. The issue is that those words are not present in the Greek text of the new testament. Your arguments rely on an opinion not on the holy scriptures.

The Geneva Bible explains 1 Corinthians 7:19 this way;

"The first part of this verse is paralleled in Gal. 5:6 and 6:15. It would seem that the second part (“keeping the commandments of God&#8221 is another way of saying, “faith working through love” (Gal. 5:6), and that such working faith is what characterizes the “new creation” (Gal. 6:15)."

Gal. 5:6 - "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love."

Gal. 6:15 - "Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation."