Defining sola scriptura.

[tadoflamb]

Tad, far be it from me to disagree, but for MoreCoffee's sake, we're gonna need a name and a quotation, thank you.

Read post #11. Please underline and embolden each time the word "guarantee" appears in the definition.

Where in the definition does it state that it does? See post #11, then would you please underline and/or embolden every time the word "guarantee" appears in the definition? Or even somewhere in the entire post? Does ANY practice specifically GUARANTEE anything?

Please underline and/or embolden where in the official definition of sola scriptura where it says this is the official definition of sola scritptura, or even the words sola scriptura.

Then, please underline and/or embolden in the bible where it says "...the Scriptures are and should remain the sole rule in the norming of all doctrine among us..."

Thanks.

 

[Rick Otto]

...it says that in Acts 17 the same way you see
Peter is the pope in Matthew. Just like you see the word Trinity and bible.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Aside from your needing to parse your words so carefully for the sake of technical correctness, RCC doctrines don't survive the SS test; read the scriptures to see if they agree.
Rome is a big couch.

Rick. Words mean things. You don't seem to realize that. And I can show you how EVERY Catholic doctrine survives the test of Sacred Scripture. Every doctrine comes directly from Scripture, those where the doctrine is not as robust do not contradict Scripture.

But let's see how the doctrines of your denomination come directly from Scripture...Does your denomination have a doctrine of being pro-life? Does it have a doctrine of marriage being monogamous? and between a man and a woman? Where are those doctrines, in Scripture???

 

[BobRyan]

Rick. Words mean things. You don't seem to realize that. And I can show you how EVERY Catholic doctrine survives the test of Sacred Scripture. Every doctrine comes directly from Scripture, those where the doctrine is not as robust do not contradict Scripture.

But let's see how the doctrines of your denomination come directly from Scripture...Does your denomination have a doctrine of being pro-life? Does it have a doctrine of marriage being monogamous? and between a man and a woman? Where are those doctrines, in Scripture???

Marriage -

Genesis 2.(for those that believe the Bible is reliable) Gen 2:22-24 ... Marriage between 1 man and 1 woman.
21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”

24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.


Matt 19:4-7
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Mark 10:6-9
6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

1 Tim 3:2
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;

As far as I know the RCC Doctrine on marriage agrees with these particular Bible verses - so I am not sure why you are putting this forward as something the Bible may not have much to say about.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Please underline and/or embolden where in the official definition of sola scriptura where it says this is the official definition of sola scritptura, or even the words sola scriptura.

Then, please underline and/or embolden in the bible where it says "...the Scriptures are and should remain the sole rule in the norming of all doctrine among us..."

Thanks.

So then you accept Act 17:11, Mark 7:6-13, Gal 1:6-9 as the sola scriptura model in scripture but you want to know about 'other' ones? Perhaps a collection of them?

in Christ,

 

[Root of Jesse]

Marriage -

Genesis 2.(for those that believe the Bible is reliable) Gen 2:22-24 ... Marriage between 1 man and 1 woman.
21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”

24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.


Matt 19:4-7
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Mark 10:6-9
6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

1 Tim 3:2
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;

As far as I know the RCC Doctrine on marriage agrees with these particular Bible verses - so I am not sure why you are putting this forward as something the Bible may not have much to say about.

in Christ,

Bob

So, you discount the episodes in the OT where men have many wives? Doesn't the Bible actually support marriage to multiple wives?

It's not a question of whether we agree or not. Where is it in the Bible? Doesn't the Bible support polygamy as well?
And what of pro-life doctrine?

 

[Rick Otto]

QUOTE=Root of Jesse; Rick. Words mean things. You don't seem to realize that.

I was raised in the RCC, so I am well rehearsed in hearing redefinitions and equivocation... all accepted in stride with being on the pope's team.
Realize how pompous it would've been if you had used proper English to tell an adult "words have meaning".
Your clumsy iteration was entertaining. Thank you!

And I can show you how EVERY Catholic doctrine survives the test of Sacred Scripture. Every doctrine comes directly from Scripture, those where the doctrine is not as robust do not contradict Scripture.

LOL!
Nice parse,... changing the meaning of SS from the subject (Sola Scriptura)!
But it is patently false to say "direct", when you know as well as I, the Magisterium is your middleman of choice.
Don't beat yourself up about tho,... I've been known to go to John Gill commentaries for insight.

But let's see how the doctrines of your denomination come directly from Scripture...

I never claimed they do. I just claimed they have to agree with it.
Werdz haf meening. lol

Does your denomination have a doctrine of being pro-life?

Yes, sir!

Does it have a doctrine of marriage being monogamous?

Yes indeedy!

and between a man and a woman?

Yup.

Where are those doctrines, in Scripture???

Like I said, they don't have to be, they simply must agree with it.
But don't ask tad, because it has to be spelled out explicitly in his words, or he won't get it.

 

[tadoflamb]

Aside from your needing to parse your words so carefully for the sake of technical correctness, RCC doctrines don't survive the SS test; read the scriptures to see if they agree.
Rome is a big couch.

What's the ss test? I missed that in the definition.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If there were an "ss test" nobody would care what passed it anyway.

 

[tadoflamb]

Rick. Words mean things. You don't seem to realize that. And I can show you how EVERY Catholic doctrine survives the test of Sacred Scripture. Every doctrine comes directly from Scripture, those where the doctrine is not as robust do not contradict Scripture.

But let's see how the doctrines of your denomination come directly from Scripture...Does your denomination have a doctrine of being pro-life? Does it have a doctrine of marriage being monogamous? and between a man and a woman? Where are those doctrines, in Scripture???

I want to see the definition of sola scriptura in the Sacred Scriptures. At this point it's seventeen words written in 1577, locked in the Book of Concord, Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, Rule and Norm Sec. 9 with no scriptural support.

 

[tadoflamb]

If there were an "ss test" nobody would care what passed it anyway.

Every doctrine invented by a sola scripturist denomination has managed to pass it.

The bar must be set pretty low.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I want to see the definition of sola scriptura in the Sacred Scriptures. At this point it's seventeen words written in 1577, locked in the Book of Concord, Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, Rule and Norm Sec. 9 with no scriptural support.

Good luck with that! We're at around 700 posts and still no answer to that request despite it being asked in the original post!

 

[tadoflamb]

What is the word of God?

The thing you are missing is God made a self fulfilling plan. God is the Alpha and the Omega. God is the word. The word is Jesus. Jesus stated I am the way the truth and the life, none come to the father but by me. Jesus (the Word of God) taught in scripture, that flesh cannot reveal the secrets of God. We find in hebrews that Jesus is made high priest after the order of Melchisedec. So the word of God is our salvation, Our high priest, and our only means of reaching God.


Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jesus, the word of God told others to rely on, and even quoted scripture.

So what is scripture?

scripture
[ ˈskripCHər ]
NOUN
the sacred writings of Christianity contained in the Bible:
"passages of scripture"
Powered by OxfordDictionaries ·

So Jesus is telling us that anyone that believes in me, as the sacred writings of Christianity contained in the Bible hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

At the time of Jesus, he was living the new testament of course, so he was at that time referring to the torah. The old testament that was all ready the written word of God.

Mat_4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Mat_4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Mat_11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mat_21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mat_26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
Mat_26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Mar_1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar_9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
Mar_9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.
Mar_14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
Mar_14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

Jesus our Christ lived as what was written. He preached what was written. The living word of God was preaching the written word of God. The Word was living and defining the Word. That is what sola scriptura is about. The written word of God (AKA scripture) being self interpreted by the Word of God Jesus, threw revelation of the holy spirit.

God made his plan in such away that you can only come to him. Because God is all parts of the solution.

You know I could go through the bible and bold, underline or otherwise highlight every time Jesus said something as evidence of Sacred Tradition. Which it is.

 

[tadoflamb]

Good luck with that! We're at around 700 posts and still no answer to that request despite it being asked in the original post!

To be fair, a couple of posters have shared their denomination's definition of sola scriptura with us.

I'm still waiting for the definition that allows for the forsaking of the assembly, rampant individualism and the rendering of private judgement after a personal reading of the bible.


For now, I have to assume post #11 is correct in that sola scriptura is for norming dogma (which none of us is doing) and then only by Lutheran churchmen (of which none of us are). Which begs the question, where did the rest of you get your definition?

 

[MoreCoffee]

To be fair, a couple of posters have shared their denomination's definition of sola scriptura with us.

I'm still waiting for the definition that allows for the forsaking of the assembly, rampant individualism and the rendering of private judgement after a personal reading of the bible.


For now, I have to assume post #11 is correct in that sola scriptura is for norming dogma (which none of us is doing) and then only by Lutheran churchmen (of which none of us are). Which begs the question, where did the rest of you get your definition?

The folk who read and responded to the original post deserve credit for it. My comment was about the 17 words lobby group.

 

[tadoflamb]

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him,

Matthew 4:19 Jesus said,

Matthew 8:3 Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said.

Matthew 8:4 Then Jesus said to him,

Matthew 8:7 Jesus said to him,

Matthew 8:10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him,

Matthew 8:13 Then Jesus said to the centurion,

Matthew 9:2 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man,

Matthew 9:4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said,

Matthew 9:12 On hearing this, Jesus said,

Matthew 9:18 While he was saying this

Matthew 9:22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said,

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said,

Matthew 12:25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them,

Matthew 13:57 But Jesus said to them, ”

Matthew 14:27 But Jesus immediately said to them:

Matthew 14:29 “Come,” he said.

Matthew 14:31 “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

Matthew 15:10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand.

Matthew 15:28 Then Jesus said to her,

Matthew 15:32 Jesus called his disciples to him and said,

Matthew 16:6 Jesus said to them.

Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter,

Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples,

 

[tadoflamb]

The folk who read and responded to the original post deserve credit for it. My comment was about the 17 words lobby group.

That's because, the seventeen words from the Book of Concord, Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, Rule and Norm Sec. 9 and post #11 is all they got.

Testimony to the sorry state of sola scripturaism in the 21st century.

 

[SpyderByte]

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him,

Matthew 4:19 Jesus said,

Matthew 8:3 Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said.

Matthew 8:4 Then Jesus said to him,

Matthew 8:7 Jesus said to him,

Matthew 8:10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him,

Matthew 8:13 Then Jesus said to the centurion,

Matthew 9:2 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man,

Matthew 9:4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said,

Matthew 9:12 On hearing this, Jesus said,

Matthew 9:18 While he was saying this

Matthew 9:22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said,

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said,

Matthew 12:25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them,

Matthew 13:57 But Jesus said to them, ”

Matthew 14:27 But Jesus immediately said to them:

Matthew 14:29 “Come,” he said.

Matthew 14:31 “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

Matthew 15:10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand.

Matthew 15:28 Then Jesus said to her,

Matthew 15:32 Jesus called his disciples to him and said,

Matthew 16:6 Jesus said to them.

Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter,

Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples,

I'm only about half way through Matthew. Get the point?

How do you know what Jesus said? Oh yeah! It got written down!

 

[tadoflamb]

Matthew 17:7 But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said.

Matthew 17:22 he said to them,

Matthew 17:26 Jesus said to him.

Matthew 19:14 Jesus said,

Matthew 19:23 Then Jesus said

Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said,

Matthew 19:28 Jesus said to them, On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them,

Matthew 20:22 Jesus said to them.

Matthew 20:23 Jesus said to them, “Matthew 20:25 Jesus called them together and said,

Matthew 21:27 Then he said,

Matthew 21:31 Jesus said to them,

Matthew 21:42 Jesus said to them,

Matthew 22:18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said,

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said

Matthew 26:1 When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples,

Matthew 26:10 Jesus said to them,

Matthew 26:25 Jesus answered,

Matthew 26:36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them,

Matthew 26:52 Jesus said to him,

Matthew 26:55 In that hour Jesus said to the crowd,

Matthew 26:64 Jesus replied.

Matthew 27:11” Jesus replied.

Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said.

Matthew 28:10 Then Jesus said to them,

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said,

 

[LostMarbels]

You know I could go through the bible and bold, underline or otherwise highlight every time Jesus said something as evidence of Sacred Tradition. Which it is.

And you still missed it. There is nothing sacred about tradition.

I still have not had one person refute the fact that God is the Word. The word is Jesus Christ manifest in the flesh, and the written word of God is scripture.

To find a flaw in the word of God you have to find a flaw in Jesus.

To say the word of God is incomplete you have to believe Jesus is incomplete.

This whole nonsense of scripture not being able to interpret itself is based on what? Tradition?

God is the word of God....... Scripture is the written word of God. So please tell me with scripture that God cannot explain himself.


Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

" The word of God is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. "

That is a live entity, not just words on a page. Your missing the entire point that God, the creator of all you knowledge, IS the word you are trying to interpret.