Defining sola scriptura.

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MoreCoffee

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How does your denomination define its doctrine of scripture and does it have a specific section or sections that tell you that scripture alone is the only infallible rule of faith by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest is the Holy Spirit speaking in the holy scriptures?

If so can you quote from the official doctrinal standard, show what passages of holy scripture are used to support its declaration on this subject, and explain its meaning in your own words, please?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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How does your denomination define its doctrine of scripture and does it have a specific section or sections that tell you that scripture alone is the only infallible rule of faith by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest is the Holy Spirit speaking in the holy scriptures?

If so can you quote from the official doctrinal standard, show what passages of holy scripture are used to support its declaration on this subject, and explain its meaning in your own words, please?

I'm not sola scriptura . but am interested in what people have to say (subscribing)
 
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Albion

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How does your denomination define its doctrine of scripture and does it have a specific section or sections that tell you that scripture alone is the only infallible rule of faith B]by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest is the Holy Spirit speaking in the holy scriptures?

I think that, first of all, it would be necessary to agree to examine Sola Scriptura as it is affirmed in whichever church is under discussion, and not something similar to it. That requires an uncompromised definition of Sola Scriptura.

The "official" definition has been used on another thread lately. It states: "The Scriptures are and should remain the sole rule in the norming of all doctrine among us"

Wikipedia provides an unofficial but perhaps important clarification: "Sola scriptura, however, does not ignore Christian history and tradition when seeking to understand the Bible. Rather, it sees the Bible as the only final authority in matters of faith and practice."
 
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MoreCoffee

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I think that, first of all, it would be necessary to agree to examine Sola Scriptura as it is affirmed in whichever church is under discussion; and that requires an uncompromised definition of Sola Scriptura.

"The Scriptures are and should remain the sole rule in the norming of all doctrine among us"

Would you unpack that statement please. What, for example, is scripture?
 
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tadoflamb

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The "official" definition has been used on another thread lately. It states: "The Scriptures are and should remain the sole rule in the norming of all doctrine among us"

No, that's the Lutheran description, which oddly enough, doesn't even mention the phrase 'sola scriptura' and is buried in Section 9 of the Book of Concord, Solid Declaration Rule and Norm. The Solid Declaration Formula of Concord, Rule and Norm also teaches this:

The Lutheran Confessions are the "basis, rule, and norm indicating how all doctrines should be judged in conformity with the Word of God" (FC SD RN)

What is a Lutheran?

So, no, that definition has yet to be adopted by the Anglican Communion.
 
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Tigger45

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I'm Sola Scriptura like the Reformers were but nothing like some Christians who don't go to church and interpert the bible in their own weird way which creates heresy.
That's a fair distinction and would put myself in that same category.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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Here is the historic, formal, official definition. From 1577:


"The Scriptures are and should remain the sole rule in the norming of all doctrine among us"

(Lutheran Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, Rule and Norm, 9).



The Rule of Scripture is the practice of embracing Scripture as the rule ("straight edge") - canon ("measuring stick") - norma normans (the norm that norms) as it is called in epistemology, as we examine and evaluate the positions (especially doctrines) among us.


What it IS
:

1. An embrace of accountability for the doctrines among us (especially those in dispute).


2. An embrace of norming (the process of examining positions for truth, correctness, validity).


3. An embrace of Scripture as the best, most sound rule/canon/norma normans for US to USE for THIS process.



What it is NOT
:

1. A teaching that all revelation or truth is found in Scripture. It's not a teaching at all, it is the PRACTICE of using Scripture as the rule in the norming of doctrines. Scripture itself says that "the heavens declare the glory of God" but our visual reception of the stars is not used as the norma normans for the evaluation of doctrines among us in the practice of Sola Scriptura.


2. A teaching that Scripture is "finished." It's not a teaching at all. While probably all that practice Sola Scripture agree with all others that God seems to have inscribed His last book around 100 AD and doens't seem to be adding any more books, the Rule of Scripture was just as "valid" in 1400 BC when Scripture consisted of just two stone tablets as it is today - only the corpus of Scripture is larger, that has no impact on the practice of embracing it as the rule/canon/norma normans in our evaluation of doctrines among us. The Rule of Scripture embraces the Scripture that is.


3. Hermeneutics. The Rule of Scripture has to do with WHAT is the most sound rule/canon/norma normans for the evaluation of the doctrines among us, it is not a hermeneutical principle. Obviously that Scripture needs to be interpreted, but that's a different subject or another day and thread. The Rule of Scripture has to do with norming, not interpreting.


4. Arbitration. Obviously, some process of determining whether the doctrine under review "measures up" (arbitration) to the "measuring stick" (the canon). This is also beyond the scope here, the Rule of Scripture is the embrace of Scripture AS that canon, it does not address the issue of HOW it is best determined if a position "measures up" to that canon.





An illustration:



Let's say Dave and Fred are neighbors. They decided that they will hire a contractor to build a brick wall on their property line, six feet tall. Dave and Fred hire Bob the Builder. He agrees to build the wall on the property line - six feet tall.

Bob is now done. He claims the wall is six feet tall. Does it matter? If it doesn't, if his work and claim are entirely irrelevabnt - then, nope - truth doesn't matter. And can just ignore what he said and did. OR we can consider that of the nearly 7 billion people in the world, there is ONE who is incapable of being wrong about measurements - and that ONE is Bob the Builder, claims ONE - Bob the Builder. IF Bob the Builder alone is right about what he alone claims about he alone here, it's pretty much a waste of time to wonder if what he said about this is true or not. But, IF truth matters and IF Bob the Builder will permit accountability (perhaps because he is confident the wall IS six feet tall), then we have the issue of accountability: Is the wall what we desire and what Bob the Builder claims it is?


If so, we just embraced norming. Norming is the process of determining correctness of the positions among us. For example, Bob claiming the wall is 6 feet tall. Is that correct? Addressing that question is norming.



Norming typically involves a norm: WHAT will serve as the rule (straight edge) or canon (measuring stick) - WHAT will be embraced by all parties involved in the normative process that is the reliable standard, the plumbline. Perhaps in the case of Fred and Dave, they embrace a standard Sears Measuring Tape. They both have one, Bob does too. Dave, Fred and Bob consider their carpenter's Sears Measuring Tape as reliable for this purpose, it's OBJECTIVE (all 3 men can read the numbers), it's UNALTERABLE (none of the 3 can change what the tape says) and it's OUTSIDE and ABOVE and BEYOND all 3 parties. Using that could be called "The Rule of the Measuring Tape." The Sears Measuring Tape would be the "canon" (the word means 'measuring stick') for this normative process.




Why Scripture?



In epistemology (regardless of discipline), the most sound norma normans is usually regarded as the most objective, most knowable by all and alterable by none, the most universally embraced by all parties as reliable for this purpose. My degree is in physics. Our norma normans is math and repeatable, objective, laborative evidence. Me saying, "what I think is the norm for what I think" will be instantly disregarded as evidential since it's both moot and circular. I would need to evidence and substantiate my view with a norm fully OUTSIDE and ABOVE and BEYOND me - something objective and knowable. This is what The Handbook of the Catholic Faith proclaims (page 136), "The Bible is the very words of God and no greater assurance of credence can be given. The Bible was inspired by God. Exactly what does that mean? It means that God Himself is the Author of the Bible. God inspired the penmen to write as He wished.... the authority of the Bible flows directly from the Author of the Bible who is God; it is authoritative because the Author is." Those that accept the Rule of Scripture tend to agree. It's embrace as the most sound Rule flows from our common embrace of Scripture as the inscriptured words of God for God is the ultimate authority.

The embrace of Scripture as the written words of God is among the most historic, ecumenical, universal embraces in all of Christianity. We see this as reliable, dependable, authoritative - it as a very, very, broad and deep embrace as such - typically among all parties involved in the evaluation. (See the illustration above).


It is knowable by all and alterable by none. We can all see the very words of Romans 3:25 for example, they are black letters on a white page - knowable! And they are unalterable. I can't change what is on the page in Romans 3:25, nor can any other; what is is.


It is regarded as authoritative and reliable. It is knowable by all and alterable by none. Those that reject the Rule of Scripture in norming ( the RCC and LDS, for example ) have no better alternative (something more inspired, more inerrant, more ecumenically/historically embraced by all parties, more objectively knowable, more unalterable), they have no alternative that is clearly more sound for this purpose among us.


To simply embrace the teachings of self (sometimes denominational "tradition" or "confession") as the rule/canon is simply self looking in the mirror at self - self almost always reveals self. In communist Cuba, Castro agrees with Castro - it has nothing whatsoever to do with whether Castro is correct. We need a Rule outside, beyond, above self.




Why does the RCC so passionately reject this practice?



Those that reject the Rule of Scripture in norming tend to do so not because they reject Scripture or have an alternative that is MORE inerrant, MORE the inscripturated words of God, MORE reliable, MORE objectively knowable, MORE unalterable, MORE ecumenically embraced as authoriative, MORE above and beyond and outside all disputing parties. Rather the rejection is because the protestors rejects accountability (and thus norming and any norm in such) in the sole, singular, exclusive, particular, unique, individual case of it itself alone, uniquely, individually. From The Handbook of the Catholic Faith (page 151), "When the Catholic is asked for the substantiation for his belief, the correct answer is: From the teaching authority. This authority consists of the bishops of The Catholic Church in connection with the Pope in Rome. The faithful are thus freed from the typically Protestant question of 'is it true' and instead rests in quiet confidence that whatever the Catholic Church teaches is the teaching of Jesus Himself since Jesus said, 'whoever hears you hears me'." The Catholic Church itself says in the Catechism of itself (#87): Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”, The faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms." IF self declares that self is unaccountable and that self is exempt from the issue of truthfulness, then the entire issue of norming (and the embraced norma normans in such) becomes entirely irrelevant (for itself). The issue has been changed from truth to power (claimed by itself for itself, exclusively).


The RCC's "fathers" on Sola Scriptura:


"We are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone." St. Gregory of Nyssa (On the Soul and the Resurrection NPNF II, V:439) Note: Gregory of Nyssa died in 394, quite a few years BEFORE Luther or Calvin were born. Compare to the definition of the practice.


Here are just a few other cases....

"Regarding the things I say, I should supply even the proofs, so I will not seem to rely on my own opinions, but rather, prove them with Scripture, so that the matter will remain certain and steadfast." St. John Chrysostom (Homily 8 On Repentance and the Church, p. 118, vol. 96 TFOTC)


"Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words." St. Gregory of Nyssa (On the Holy Trinity, NPNF, p. 327).



"What is the mark of a faithful soul? To be in these dispositions of full acceptance on the authority of the words of Scripture, not venturing to reject anything nor making additions. For, if ‘all that is not of faith is sin' as the Apostle says, and ‘faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God,' everything outside Holy Scripture, not being of faith, is sin." Basil the Great (The Morals, p. 204, vol 9 TFOTC).


"We are not content simply because this is the tradition of the Fathers. What is important is that the Fathers followed the the Scripture." St. Basil the Great (On the Holy Spirit, Chapter 7, par. 16)


For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless you receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures. St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures, IV:17, in NPNF, Volume VII, p. 23.)


Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God. St. Augustine (De unitate ecclesiae, chp. 10)





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Gregory Thompson

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Here is the historic, formal, official definition. From 1577:


"The Scriptures are and should remain the sole rule in the norming of all doctrine among us"

(Lutheran Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, Rule and Norm, 9).

.

Does this definition include the Canon that was in use in 1577?
 
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Radagast

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From the Belgic Confession, Article 7:

"The sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures, to be the only rule of faith.

We believe that those Holy Scriptures fully contain the will of God, and that whatsoever man ought to believe, unto salvation, is sufficiently taught therein. For, since the whole manner of worship, which God requires of us, is written in them at large, it is unlawful for any one, though an apostle, to teach otherwise than we are now taught in the Holy Scriptures: nay, though it were an angel from heaven, as the apostle Paul saith. For, since it is forbidden, to add unto or take away anything from the word of God, it doth thereby evidently appear, that the doctrine thereof is most perfect and complete in all respects. Neither do we consider of equal value any writing of men, however holy these men may have been, with those divine Scriptures, nor ought we to consider custom, or the great multitude, or antiquity, or succession of times and persons, or councils, decrees or statutes, as of equal value with the truth of God, for the truth is above all; for all men are of themselves liars, and more vain than vanity itself. Therefore, we reject with all our hearts, whatsoever doth not agree with this infallible rule, which the apostles have taught us, saying, Try the spirits whether they are of God. Likewise, if there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house.
"
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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From the Belgic Confession, Article 7:

"The sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures, to be the only rule of faith.

We believe that those Holy Scriptures fully contain the will of God, and that whatsoever man ought to believe, unto salvation, is sufficiently taught therein. For, since the whole manner of worship, which God requires of us, is written in them at large, it is unlawful for any one, though an apostle, to teach otherwise than we are now taught in the Holy Scriptures: nay, though it were an angel from heaven, as the apostle Paul saith. For, since it is forbidden, to add unto or take away anything from the word of God, it doth thereby evidently appear, that the doctrine thereof is most perfect and complete in all respects. Neither do we consider of equal value any writing of men, however holy these men may have been, with those divine Scriptures, nor ought we to consider custom, or the great multitude, or antiquity, or succession of times and persons, or councils, decrees or statutes, as of equal value with the truth of God, for the truth is above all; for all men are of themselves liars, and more vain than vanity itself. Therefore, we reject with all our hearts, whatsoever doth not agree with this infallible rule, which the apostles have taught us, saying, Try the spirits whether they are of God. Likewise, if there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house.
"



Most of this is the Doctrine of Scripture. A Reformed pastor informed me that the classic definition - already well established - was accepted in Reformed practice. But, in light of the Catholic protest, specially emphasis was given to WHY Scripture should be used as the only rule in the norming of doctrines. That's what we see here.

I think this is simply continuing the classic, formal, official definition well understood among Lutherans and Reformed, but that the Reformed Confessions add to it WHY Scripture - namely, what is here stated.





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Gregory Thompson

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The Lutheran Confessions point to only one canon in this sense - Scripture. See post 11.


Thank you.


pax


- Josiah





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But in 1577 the canon of scripture was different than after the late 1700s canon of scripture . so this may be an example of the modern application varying from the original meaning .
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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But in 1577 the canon of scripture was different than after the late 1700s canon of scripture . so this may be an example of the modern application varying from the original meaning .

In epistemology, "canon" = rule, measuring stick. See post # 11.


Perhaps your point is the content of Scripture changed between 1400 BC and 100 AD (it got larger). And I suppose that issue would have been relevant IF we were having that discussion at that time. But the issue doesn't apply here (and now, except for Mormons). The PRACTICE of the Rule of Scripture in norming doesn't state what is and is not Scripture (practices are incapable of teaching anything) anymore than the PRACTICE of the Rule of Law in norming states what is and is not the Law in every one of the millions of jurisdictions at any given moment - it simply means the Law is to be used as the rule/canon/norm as we evaluate the correctness of disputed positions. See post # 11.






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Gregory Thompson

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In epistemology, "canon" = rule, measuring stick. See post # 11.


Perhaps your point is the content of Scripture changed between 1400 BC and 100 AD (it got larger). And I suppose that issue would have been relevant IF we were having that discussion at that time. But the issue doesn't apply here (and now, except for Mormons). The PRACTICE of the Rule of Scripture in norming doesn't state what is and is not Scripture (practices are incapable of teaching anything) anymore than the PRACTICE of the Rule of Law in norming states what is and is not the Law in every one of the millions of jurisdictions at any given moment - it simply means the Law is to be used as the rule/canon/norm as we evaluate the correctness of disputed positions. See post # 11.






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I'm more about grace . but in relation to the idea that it isn't about that .. the subject of the thread is sola scriptura . and without a canon of scripture agreed on .. it does not shape effectively what sola scriptura means in terms of application . i've read post 11 .
 
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MoreCoffee

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Here is the historic, formal, official definition. From 1577: ... <snipped for brevity> ...

I did see one scripture reference in the post but it was the only one. Romans 3:25 whom God set forth as an expiation, through faith, by his blood, to prove his righteousness because of the forgiveness of sins previously committed,

Was there more from holy scripture to help us see how the definition in the post is scriptural?
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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Josiah said:
Here is the historic, formal, official definition. From 1577:


"The Scriptures are and should remain the sole rule in the norming of all doctrine among us"

(Lutheran Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, Rule and Norm, 9).




.



I did see one scripture reference in the post but it was the only one. Romans 3:25


The historic, formal, official, verbatim definition is what it is. And no, there is no Scripture referenced in it.



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah





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