What is "true" Islam?

[MorkandMindy]

...

I suspect you have never experienced a true Islamic country and are simply swayed by media reports.

I knew a fair number of Muslims at University back when we were against Communism and militant Muslims were our allies.

Which they still are in the main, we back the most militant Muslims and interestingly also the most militant Jews and fight or don't support the moderates.

...
and are simply swayed by media reports.

Believing the news will make you very very confused.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Nicely put.

Islam is not a religion of war

 

[theFijian]

Nicely put.

Islam is not a religion of war

When there were hawks in the White house pushing for military intervention in the middle-east how many non-christians were proclaiming Christianity as a religion of peace? When Israel intervenes in Palestine do we have non-Christians post videos proclaiming Judaism a religion of peace?

In fact we currently have several threads blaming right-wing american fundamentalist Christianity and Zionism for the worlds ills.

 

[MorkandMindy]

When there were hawks in the White house pushing for military intervention in the middle-east how many non-christians were proclaiming Christianity as a religion of peace? When Israel intervenes in Palestine do we have non-Christians post videos proclaiming Judaism a religion of peace?

In fact we currently have several threads blaming right-wing american fundamentalist Christianity and Zionism for the worlds ills.

People get very possessive about their opinions even though the opinions are formed on the basis of 'information' (usually misinformation) supplied by the media.

People should not be possessive about media based opinions because they were observed (or invented) by someone with a bias we don't know, fed into the media, selected on the basis of the bias of who ever owns the media corporation, written up in a particular way by someone else we don't know, and finally transmitted on paper or TV or whatever. The audience has no personal connection with it and no direct knowledge either and it isn't even second hand from someone they trust, it has gone through many unknown hands.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Some people decide one side is right and the other is wrong while other people even in the same family may go the exact opposite way.

Years ago people used to kill and die for their opinions. Fortunately few these days are that stupid, people should not be owned by their opinions. People also should know that they are frequently misinformed.

 

[MorkandMindy]

At election time the different political claims are designed to appeal to different aspects of the personality. This is unfortunate because although one of the leading political parties in the US benefits almost nobody, masses of people still vote for it because it appeals strongly to one particular 'basic instinct'.


I wasn't in the US before the elections but the statistics showed that few people on either side knew what the party they supported planned to do if elected. Despite knowing so little the electorate was none the less very clear on who they would vote for and the polarisation was pretty bad, the voting was clearly emotional and not fact based.

I will confess I had no idea who to vote for on the basis of the main candidate. I eventually decided I would at the next election choose on the basis of who supported the candidates because they get a big say in what happens in the future. I really do see both sides of the issues.


While I feel the polarisation was itself a bad thing, choosing on the basis of emotion isn't so bad, but people need to fully understand which emotion they are following, and knowing that would have deprived one of the parties of pretty well all of it's votes...

 

[theFijian]

People get very possessive about their opinions even though the opinions are formed on the basis of 'information' (usually misinformation) supplied by the media.

Apart from your opinions I suppose? How convenient.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

When there were hawks in the White house pushing for military intervention in the middle-east how many non-christians were proclaiming Christianity as a religion of peace? When Israel intervenes in Palestine do we have non-Christians post videos proclaiming Judaism a religion of peace?

In fact we currently have several threads blaming right-wing american fundamentalist Christianity and Zionism for the worlds ills.

Sorry, I normally see where you're coming from but not in this instance. What's your point?

 

[MorkandMindy]

Apart from your opinions I suppose? How convenient.

I need some help as I don't really understand how all this works.

If I for example said the World is round, almost spherical, and a hundred people disagreed with me and some went so far as to patronisingly explain that if the World wasn't flat then the ocean would all pour off,

I don't think I would be at all upset.

I think the reason political arguments get emotional is they are not clear cut matters of fact but matters of judgement.

 

[theFijian]

I need some help as I don't really understand how all this works.

What are you needing help with? The fact that you seem to think that everyone is being fed misinformation apart from you? Something else?

 

[theFijian]

Sorry, I normally see where you're coming from but not in this instance. What's your point?

Yes more thinking out loud really. Basically I am wondering why Islam is afforded such generous treatment when it appears Christianity is not. Is this overcompensation for the perceived injustices by western 'Christian' nations on Islamic ones? Is it because there the perpetrators of islamic terrorism specifically claim they do it in the name of their religion, while the 'true Christians' (to quote our fellow poster) Bush and Blair did not ascribe religious intent to their 'war on terror'?

I wonder why non-muslim westerners seem happy to believe that these terrorists were not true muslims; do muslims need to align with modern western enlightenment thinking for them to be true muslims? There is a great deal of cultural influence involved here which I think needs to be taken into account. Countries which are today traditionally muslim are societies and cultures which are much less individualistic than western societies, values like family, honour/shame, deference to authority play a greater role than in the west, perhaps they used to in the west and that has been lost to an extent.

Maybe it is actions or lifestyle which makes one a 'true' muslim, it is not actions or lifestyle which may one a 'true' christian

 

[Episaw]

The date is irrelevant unless you are cherry picking
More cherry picking More cherry picking, and factually either meaningless or wrong.

As with all history, the date is very relevant. Without the date you cannot put things into context and if you can't put things in context you cannot make a case for anything.

 

[ebia]

As with all history, the date is very relevant. Without the date you cannot put things into context and if you can't put things in context you cannot make a case for anything.

Ironic

 

[Episaw]

1835 When did Christian England last persecute a homosexual to the point they commited suicide? 2014

Had a good look and couldn't find it anywhere.

 

[ebia]

Had a good look and couldn't find it anywhere.

Couldn't find what?

 

[ebia]

I am still trying to find accounts of christians doing the same thing this century so your comment doesn't stack up.

Theres no sound reason to restrict things to this century.

But even if we did for some irrational purpose, you couldn't have looked very hard. How did you go about it?

 

[Episaw]

Or the Islam that elected the three largest islamic countries female heads of state, something the world's largest Christian country had yet to achieve.

History not your strongest point? One of the best Prime Minister's Israel had was Golda Meir. One of the best Prime Ministers the UK had was Margaret Thatcher. One of the best Chancellor's Germany has is Angela Merkel.

 

[ebia]

History not your strongest point? One of the best Prime Minister's Israel had was Golda Meir. One of the best Prime Ministers the UK had was Margaret Thatcher. One of the best Chancellor's Germany has is Angela Merkel.

None of those are the world's largest Christian nation. One of them isn't even Christian.
Maybe reading isn't your strongest point.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I am still trying to find accounts of christians doing the same thing this century so your comment doesn't stack up.

Holocaust denial is a crime in some countries

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Had a good look and couldn't find it anywhere.

Well, since you claim to be "Always learning" I'm pleased to have been of assistance